(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)smokepoles Wrote: Well, my experience has been that long lining is frowned upon at the gorge as if kokes in area there will be some concentration of boats.  Best to keep the riggers short drop back.

(04-17-2024, 04:50 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)smokepoles Wrote: Well, my experience has been that long lining is frowned upon at the gorge as if kokes in area there will be some concentration of boats.  Best to keep the riggers short drop back.

Frowning upon another man’s way of fishing is looked down upon. You fish the way you want fish and I’ll fish the way I want to fish. 
Lastly, please explain the difference of a steel line coming off of a downrigger going down 90 feet and a steel line coming off of a fishing rod going down to 90 feet.

(04-18-2024, 02:40 AM)smokepoles Wrote: Redrebel and Mildpg, although I am an old fart, I am still learning, and l  do my best to allow others to fish as they wish.  You are correct that auto pilot on straight line is not any issue except when an area of concentrated boats all trying to avoid that auto and then going through the middle of fish as they see fit but with no concern when they start their track as to who was on track first, really impossible to tell, so all need to be flexible.

(04-17-2024, 04:50 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)smokepoles Wrote: Well, my experience has been that long lining is frowned upon at the gorge as if kokes in area there will be some concentration of boats.  Best to keep the riggers short drop back.

To those who don’t understand how the long lining works I get why they get frustrated. Long lining is the old-school way of doing things at the gorge and it’s frowned upon by those who became lazy with their presentation. I can easily get out of the way of Downrigger’s and they can easily get out of the way of me if you pay attention. There is a guide up there, who has been steel line fishing for nearly 30 years. I can say that getting called out in the middle of a sportsman’s expo presentation by Jared, and then him trying to dig himself out of a hole, Gave me a better perspective on his Outlook On steel line fishing.
To give you an example, Saturday morning, my first two runs. I had no boats in my area. On my third run, Jim came in with his charter and came right in the line that I was trying to run. trying to stay on specific structure is important when steel line fishing. He is a well respected guide, and I know exactly what area he was going to. I kindly adjusted and went to different structure and had a bite. I didn’t worry about him coming into the area or the other four boats that came and join me once I turned around. We all got around each other just fine. The gentleman that ran into my lines on Thursday when there was zero boats in the area and he was zigzagging all across swim beach. He wasn’t paying attention and I got vocal and told him to stop his boat and thank you for the extra work, pulled in my lines and I didn’t pull his balls off his downriggers  like I easily could have . Frowning upon another man’s way of fishing is looked down upon. You fish the way you want fish and I’ll fish the way I want to fish. 
Lastly, please explain the difference of a steel line coming off of a downrigger going down 90 feet and a steel line coming off of a fishing rod going down to 90 feet. The only difference is you have a heavier ball and you will go directly down. There’s still a piece of line going through a school of fish that will simply swim away and come back. Sometimes I think people overthink things.

(04-21-2024, 06:42 PM)Fowl-Hook Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:50 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)smokepoles Wrote: Well, my experience has been that long lining is frowned upon at the gorge as if kokes in area there will be some concentration of boats.  Best to keep the riggers short drop back.

To those who don’t understand how the long lining works I get why they get frustrated. Long lining is the old-school way of doing things at the gorge and it’s frowned upon by those who became lazy with their presentation. I can easily get out of the way of Downrigger’s and they can easily get out of the way of me if you pay attention. There is a guide up there, who has been steel line fishing for nearly 30 years. I can say that getting called out in the middle of a sportsman’s expo presentation by Jared, and then him trying to dig himself out of a hole, Gave me a better perspective on his Outlook On steel line fishing.
To give you an example, Saturday morning, my first two runs. I had no boats in my area. On my third run, Jim came in with his charter and came right in the line that I was trying to run. trying to stay on specific structure is important when steel line fishing. He is a well respected guide, and I know exactly what area he was going to. I kindly adjusted and went to different structure and had a bite. I didn’t worry about him coming into the area or the other four boats that came and join me once I turned around. We all got around each other just fine. The gentleman that ran into my lines on Thursday when there was zero boats in the area and he was zigzagging all across swim beach. He wasn’t paying attention and I got vocal and told him to stop his boat and thank you for the extra work, pulled in my lines and I didn’t pull his balls off his downriggers  like I easily could have . Frowning upon another man’s way of fishing is looked down upon. You fish the way you want fish and I’ll fish the way I want to fish. 
Lastly, please explain the difference of a steel line coming off of a downrigger going down 90 feet and a steel line coming off of a fishing rod going down to 90 feet. The only difference is you have a heavier ball and you will go directly down. There’s still a piece of line going through a school of fish that will simply swim away and come back. Sometimes I think people overthink things.

Most fisher people have no clue that long lining consume the entire water column from top to bottom 800ft behind the boat  using this method. This method was and is unpopular because it requires so much space that is no longer available at the George or anywhere else. Cut behind a long liner with down riggers and you will hang 125 lb steel cable and the contest begiins for each party to retrieve there gear first and start cutting cable to do so.

(04-21-2024, 03:24 PM)Therapist Wrote: RedRebel!!  Back in the day I used to outfit guys going to the Gorge for Lakers. Penn 49M reels, Sabre 210 rods w/carbide guides, 120lb steel line, Berkley 210lb crosslock snapswivels, and Henlin T55 Flatfish.  They also had to have spare treble hooks and split rings to replace the ones they pulled apart when they would hang up!!  Didn't know anyone still fished that way!!  What is your rig, as  Penn no longer makes the 49M, Sabre is made in China, and Henlin is owned by Yakima and they don't make the T55 any more!!

(04-21-2024, 07:37 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-21-2024, 06:42 PM)Fowl-Hook Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:50 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)smokepoles Wrote: Well, my experience has been that long lining is frowned upon at the gorge as if kokes in area there will be some concentration of boats.  Best to keep the riggers short drop back.

To those who don’t understand how the long lining works I get why they get frustrated. Long lining is the old-school way of doing things at the gorge and it’s frowned upon by those who became lazy with their presentation. I can easily get out of the way of Downrigger’s and they can easily get out of the way of me if you pay attention. There is a guide up there, who has been steel line fishing for nearly 30 years. I can say that getting called out in the middle of a sportsman’s expo presentation by Jared, and then him trying to dig himself out of a hole, Gave me a better perspective on his Outlook On steel line fishing.
To give you an example, Saturday morning, my first two runs. I had no boats in my area. On my third run, Jim came in with his charter and came right in the line that I was trying to run. trying to stay on specific structure is important when steel line fishing. He is a well respected guide, and I know exactly what area he was going to. I kindly adjusted and went to different structure and had a bite. I didn’t worry about him coming into the area or the other four boats that came and join me once I turned around. We all got around each other just fine. The gentleman that ran into my lines on Thursday when there was zero boats in the area and he was zigzagging all across swim beach. He wasn’t paying attention and I got vocal and told him to stop his boat and thank you for the extra work, pulled in my lines and I didn’t pull his balls off his downriggers  like I easily could have . Frowning upon another man’s way of fishing is looked down upon. You fish the way you want fish and I’ll fish the way I want to fish. 
Lastly, please explain the difference of a steel line coming off of a downrigger going down 90 feet and a steel line coming off of a fishing rod going down to 90 feet. The only difference is you have a heavier ball and you will go directly down. There’s still a piece of line going through a school of fish that will simply swim away and come back. Sometimes I think people overthink things.

Most fisher people have no clue that long lining consume the entire water column from top to bottom 800ft behind the boat  using this method. This method was and is unpopular because it requires so much space that is no longer available at the George or anywhere else. Cut behind a long liner with down riggers and you will hang 125 lb steel cable and the contest begiins for each party to retrieve there gear first and start cutting cable to do so.

Dude, if I had 800 feet of line out I would respectfully say that you really have no idea how steel line fishing works at the gorge. At the most when I’m dragging I’m usually out maybe 175 feet maybe 250 if the wind is bad. Yes, I may take up more water column than a downrigger but if you usually wait about maybe 90 seconds you will pass my lines when you are going 1.5 miles an hour. I think it all comes down to respect on the water. I’m not perfect. I’ve made my mistakes, but it’s easy to avoid a steel line fisherman even if you are going after the kokes.

---

(04-21-2024, 03:24 PM)Therapist Wrote: RedRebel!!  Back in the day I used to outfit guys going to the Gorge for Lakers. Penn 49M reels, Sabre 210 rods w/carbide guides, 120lb steel line, Berkley 210lb crosslock snapswivels, and Henlin T55 Flatfish.  They also had to have spare treble hooks and split rings to replace the ones they pulled apart when they would hang up!!  Didn't know anyone still fished that way!!  What is your rig, as  Penn no longer makes the 49M, Sabre is made in China, and Henlin is owned by Yakima and they don't make the T55 any more!!

I have two different rod set ups. One is an off the shelf Shimano Tallora And the other is a custom rod built by a gentleman here in Salt Lake. If anyone wants his information, I can get it to you. They run about 200 bucks. I prefer them over the Shimano because I can read what my plug is doing a little better. Both rods have a Okuma cold water line counter. It is designed for steel line and copper line. The guide has yet to wear out with a few years on each one. I run a 90 pound seven strand stainless line. I run flatfish from fifties to 60s. Only one Tail hook, larger split rings and I dress some of the hooks with tails of different colors. Yakima does make a bait that is close, but you do have to alter it slightly.

(04-22-2024, 12:58 AM)Mildog Wrote:

(04-21-2024, 07:37 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-21-2024, 06:42 PM)Fowl-Hook Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:50 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)smokepoles Wrote: Well, my experience has been that long lining is frowned upon at the gorge as if kokes in area there will be some concentration of boats.  Best to keep the riggers short drop back.

To those who don’t understand how the long lining works I get why they get frustrated. Long lining is the old-school way of doing things at the gorge and it’s frowned upon by those who became lazy with their presentation. I can easily get out of the way of Downrigger’s and they can easily get out of the way of me if you pay attention. There is a guide up there, who has been steel line fishing for nearly 30 years. I can say that getting called out in the middle of a sportsman’s expo presentation by Jared, and then him trying to dig himself out of a hole, Gave me a better perspective on his Outlook On steel line fishing.
To give you an example, Saturday morning, my first two runs. I had no boats in my area. On my third run, Jim came in with his charter and came right in the line that I was trying to run. trying to stay on specific structure is important when steel line fishing. He is a well respected guide, and I know exactly what area he was going to. I kindly adjusted and went to different structure and had a bite. I didn’t worry about him coming into the area or the other four boats that came and join me once I turned around. We all got around each other just fine. The gentleman that ran into my lines on Thursday when there was zero boats in the area and he was zigzagging all across swim beach. He wasn’t paying attention and I got vocal and told him to stop his boat and thank you for the extra work, pulled in my lines and I didn’t pull his balls off his downriggers  like I easily could have . Frowning upon another man’s way of fishing is looked down upon. You fish the way you want fish and I’ll fish the way I want to fish. 
Lastly, please explain the difference of a steel line coming off of a downrigger going down 90 feet and a steel line coming off of a fishing rod going down to 90 feet. The only difference is you have a heavier ball and you will go directly down. There’s still a piece of line going through a school of fish that will simply swim away and come back. Sometimes I think people overthink things.

Most fisher people have no clue that long lining consume the entire water column from top to bottom 800ft behind the boat  using this method. This method was and is unpopular because it requires so much space that is no longer available at the George or anywhere else. Cut behind a long liner with down riggers and you will hang 125 lb steel cable and the contest begiins for each party to retrieve there gear first and start cutting cable to do so.

Dude, if I had 800 feet of line out I would respectfully say that you really have no idea how steel line fishing works at the gorge. At the most when I’m dragging I’m usually out maybe 175 feet maybe 250 if the wind is bad. Yes, I may take up more water column than a downrigger but if you usually wait about maybe 90 seconds you will pass my lines when you are going 1.5 miles an hour. I think it all comes down to respect on the water. I’m not perfect. I’ve made my mistakes, but it’s easy to avoid a steel line fisherman even if you are going after the kokes.

---

(04-21-2024, 03:24 PM)Therapist Wrote: RedRebel!!  Back in the day I used to outfit guys going to the Gorge for Lakers. Penn 49M reels, Sabre 210 rods w/carbide guides, 120lb steel line, Berkley 210lb crosslock snapswivels, and Henlin T55 Flatfish.  They also had to have spare treble hooks and split rings to replace the ones they pulled apart when they would hang up!!  Didn't know anyone still fished that way!!  What is your rig, as  Penn no longer makes the 49M, Sabre is made in China, and Henlin is owned by Yakima and they don't make the T55 any more!!

I have two different rod set ups. One is an off the shelf Shimano Tallora And the other is a custom rod built by a gentleman here in Salt Lake. If anyone wants his information, I can get it to you. They run about 200 bucks. I prefer them over the Shimano because I can read what my plug is doing a little better. Both rods have a Okuma cold water line counter. It is designed for steel line and copper line. The guide has yet to wear out with a few years on each one. I run a 90 pound seven strand stainless line. I run flatfish from fifties to 60s. Only one Tail hook, larger split rings and I dress some of the hooks with tails of different colors. Yakima does make a bait that is close, but you do have to alter it slightly.

I set a bunch of people up like Therapist mentioned back in the day at the store. I still have two, custom rods I built one on a Fenwick blank and one on a Sabre one is spooled with copper one with steel . Usually only 300 feet of wire on the reel.
So not sure how someone would drag 800 feet behind them.
One day for nostalgia sake I want to drag the bottom again. But I’m
Not sure I could find a day where I would go crazy trying to
Find a spot to fish that way after hearing Red Rebels story.
Maybe I will get a chance sometime??

(04-22-2024, 07:09 PM)BYUHunter Wrote: I'll amend my above statement based on further clarification:

Hanging 250' of line off the back of your boat is asking for trouble. That is 85 yards, 100 feet beyond the legally-required passing distance under power. I can't tell what someone is doing 250' away on their boat, nor do I care. I wouldn't know how to tell that you are fishing steel line.

I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong, but if I had 250' off the back of my boat, I would fully expect someone to snag it, regardless of time of year. Running downriggers with a bit of a setback seems like an excellent way to achieve the same result.

(04-22-2024, 08:22 PM)Redrebel Wrote:

(04-22-2024, 07:09 PM)BYUHunter Wrote: I'll amend my above statement based on further clarification:

Hanging 250' of line off the back of your boat is asking for trouble. That is 85 yards, 100 feet beyond the legally-required passing distance under power. I can't tell what someone is doing 250' away on their boat, nor do I care. I wouldn't know how to tell that you are fishing steel line.

I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong, but if I had 250' off the back of my boat, I would fully expect someone to snag it, regardless of time of year. Running downriggers with a bit of a setback seems like an excellent way to achieve the same result.

I respectfully say you are wrong. You cannot achieve the same result. You will never be able to achieve the same result that my flatfish will do with the steel line than running a down rigger. You will constantly have a false release and not have the same presentation. Another example of someone not understanding how steel line works. You can argue all you want. Those who don’t like steel line fishing don’t like any of the original fisherman that taught people how to fish the gorge and catch very large fish. 
Comes down to respect. I have fished the gorge for over 15 years and I understand many of the gentlemen on this board are much older than me and the fished longer. However, I became good friends with a guy who is fished up there for over 35 years and 30 of those being paid. He was taught by one of the original steel  Fishman, a gentleman named Bruce. I urge you to reach out to Bruce and Kyle And ask them how they feel about your opinion. I would imagine you will get an earful and tell you to keep your head on a swivel that if you can’t realize what another man is doing when you were 100 feet away from him you might want to put the boat back on the trailer. I will reiterate one last time. The gentleman came by me with the rods, nearly touching, and then they did a sharp left face. It was an idiotic move, and I mentioned it on here to allow other people to understand that you need to be more respectful. I intentionally added it to my report to allow people to see that some people might think that they’re doing the right thing, but in reality you’re not. Just because you have been doing it longer doesn’t mean you are doing it right. 
I can add another example of being a courteous fisherman. I met a gentleman by the name of Travis up at Willard the other day and our rods nearly touched as we passed each other on the structure We were trying to follow. We each talked to each other and  told each other which way we were going as we went by, we appreciated  each other‘s communication. we found out we both like to fish the gorge and we each made a new  fishing friend.