Is river bed private property? - Printable Version +- Fishing Forum (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum) +-- Forum: Utah Fishing Forum (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=386) +--- Forum: Utah Fishing General (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=58) +--- Thread: Is river bed private property? (/showthread.php?tid=23178)

Is river bed private property? - RipNLips - 01-05-2003 [center] [#ff0000][#ff0000]This Weeks Winners wins[/#ff0000] [#000000]"[/#000000][url "http://www.fishingcomics.com/"][#0000ff]The Complete Fishing Comic and Joke Book[/#0000ff][/url][#000000]”[/#000000] [#ff0000]Week Ending 1-11-03:[/#ff0000] [/#ff0000][/center] If a river crosses private property, is the river bed private property? A fellow angler I know and his lawyer continue to try to get the answer to that question changed to "No". Through a civil suit, they hope to get the Utah Legislature to say the river bed is public property just like the water flowing over it is. The wheels of justice turn slow however, as you can see by the date on this article. They're still trying to get a hearing.[font "Verdana"] Trespassing charge over river dropped Sat, May 4, 2002 By TIM GURRISTER Standard-Examiner staff OGDEN -- A judge has dismissed a trespassing charge against Keven Conatser regarding public rivers and private property, but the issue of whether you can walk on a river bottom in Utah remains up in the air. The case promises to stay complicated and drawn out with issues about easements and navigable waterways plus legal differences studied throughout the west. Montana allows its residents to walk on stream beds, but no digging of holes, explains Conatser’s lawyer Gerald Nielsen of Salt Lake. New Mexico says sometimes, he said. Wyoming, Nielsen said, says no walking on the streambed, and also don’t anchor on the streambed. So the parties will vie for various legal precedents to be applied to the case. "That’s what makes the practice of law so complicated," Nielsen said. And the case now will proceed via Conatser’s civil suit since 2nd District Judge W. Brent West has dismissed the Morgan County Sheriff’s criminal trespassing charge against Conatser. Morgan County Attorney Kelly Wright had originally maintained the Roy man and his group were trespassing June 4, 2000, when Conatser walked along the river bottom of the Weber River to pull his raft to the bank of the river. Wright argued an easement or public access was only for the river, not the streambed. "The only public easement has to do with water, not real estate," he said during a motion hearing in October. Wright has since dropped the easement argument, stating that Utah’s trespassing law and any precedent is unclear on whether the public can walk on streambeds. "The Utah Supreme Court has said on the question of whether the public has an easement in a streambed, we express no opinion," Wright said. Conflicting evidence West dismissed the trespassing charge because of conflicting evidence over whether Conatser was on the bank, not the bottom of the river, Wright said. Conatser’s lawyer Nielsen agrees that Utah’s law is unclear but statute and case law from around the west should allow the Utah Supreme Court to form an opinion. That’s where he’s pushing the case, where he hopes "body and soul" it will wind up. Up to the Legislature? Wright thinks the Utah Legislature should decide. "I believe it’s a legislative issue, that lawmakers should decide by debate and the public hearing process. I’m going to leave it up to the public policy makers to balance the rights of the public and the landowners." In some places Utahns are walking on river bottoms, Nielsen said. He points to a stretch of the Jordan River downstate where landowners feel the water’s edge, however it varies, is their property line. In that case, Nielsen believes it’s because a federal "navigable waterway" standard applies, which makes the streambed state property. He wants to develop the Weber River’s case for the federal navigable waterway standard. [/font] [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - PREDATOR - 01-05-2003 This is a very important topic, and an old one, that all anglers in utah should be aware of. Duck hunters, anglers, kyackers, and anyone else who can benefit from using our rivers should have very strong deep rooted feelings regarding this law. There is a lot to gain from accessing these areas. Not to mention that gaining ground in this sport seems to happen less than loosing ground. I hope to gain some support and activism on this issue through the utah group Sportsmen for fish and wildlife. Thanks Mr. lips for posting the info. By the way, I like your new signature. [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - Willski4food - 01-05-2003 I was always told that the water is public but the streambed is private, So if you are floating there is no problem, but touching the bed is trespassing, The water belongs to the public so as long as you dont get out to touch the bank it is perfectly leagal. and there is nothing that the land owner can do about it. This is just what I have heard from what "they" say. [signature] Re: [PREDATOR] Is river bed private property? - BADFISH - 01-05-2003 [sly]THERE IS ALSO THE CONCEPT THAT WHILST IT IS POSSIBLE TO OWN THE RIVER BED, IF A RIVER RUNS THROUGH A PROPERTY, THE LAW HAS NO MENTION OF YOU FLOATING THROUGH THAT AREA, IF YOU DONT TOUCH THE BOTTOM AND YOU DONT HAVE TO OVER COME ANY OBSTACLES FOR ACCESS, IT ISNT TRESSPASSING IF YOU DONT TOUCH THE PROPERTY OR FENCE AROUND IT, YOU FLOW THROUGH AS DOES THE WATER YOU ARE TRAVELING. OR YOU COULD JUST KNOCK ON A DOOR OR TWO A DAY OR SO BEFORE YOU FISH AND GET A NOTE WRITTEN THAT SAYS YOU HAVE PERMISSION. I FOR ONE WOULD LET ALL PEOPLE THAT CAME AND ASKED FISH IN MY YARD.....I JUST DONT HAVE ANY WATER!! HA. BUT IF YOU ASKED I WOULD LET YOU. OR JUST MAKE SURE YOU CAN OUT RUN A COP. THAT IS MY LEAST FAVORITE CHOICE, BUT I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN! ALTOUGH I HAVE NEVER PARTICIPATED. SO MY ADVICE IS ASK BEFORE OR FLOAT IT...AND YES I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WALKED FROM A TICKET WITH THAT EXPLANATION, A COP AND AN LAND OWNER RIGHT THERE IN COURT. SO IT WORKS, BUT I WOULD JUST ASK PERMISSION, KEEP IT LEGAL, AND SAVE YOU SOME TIME IF IT COMES TO COURT. WHICH IT USUALLY DOESNT BECAUSE I REMIND YOU THE LANDOWNER HAS TO PRESS CHARGES, THE STATE CANNOT IT IS PRIVATE PROPERTY. LATES [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - lonehunter - 01-12-2003 here in michigan THIS YEARS definition of public access is the stream and bottom up to the high water marks on the bank , anything past the high watermark is private . i can e-mail you the page , but it's a long one ! [signature] Re: [lonehunter] Is river bed private property? - RipNLips - 01-12-2003 Here, here! That's how it should be in Utah also. We'll see if the legislature sees it that way when it goes before them. [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - davetclown - 01-13-2003 [center][size 2]COURT UPHOLDS PUBLIC ACCESS TO MONTANA STREAMS[/size][/center] [font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 2]The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a Monatana state law that guarantees public stream access to anglers, even when the streams cross private land. [/size][/font] [font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 2]Three Montana landowners attempted to overturn the law, claiming that it "deprives them of liberty and property without due process." [/size][/font] [font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 2]However, the judges ruled that the banks of streams and rivers--from the water's edge to the high-water mark on the banks--must remain open to the public.[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 2]this law of "water ways act" goes a way back to the times when travel was by water ways and was a means of life, but mind you that if you set foot on privet property (on shore of that stream or river) you are most asuradly guilty of tress pass and can be prossecuted for doing so.[/size][/font] [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - walleyebob - 01-13-2003 Tough issue. I know people who own land along the Spanish Fork river. They own the river bottom to the center of the river, but can't stop you from floating it. If I owned land with a river running through it. It would be heavily posted and very few people would get access. Sorry, but I have seen the trash left behind, and the damage done. We need to be more responsible for our actions. You should see the warm springs at Utah Lake. Garbage and dead fish everywhere. Take a bag with you and clean up other peoples trash. Maybe when they see you doing it they will take the hint and be more responsible. We lose access to good spots every day because of the actions of a few unresponsible un-sportsmen. Its up to every one of us to improve the image of fishermen and outdoors people. O.K.,,,I'm done. WalleyeBob [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - RipNLips - 01-14-2003 I appreciate the Post Of The Week award BFT. I hope to see the day I can get capsized from my raft and use the river bottom to save my !@# without getting arrested. [signature] Re: [RipNLips] Is river bed private property? - lonehunter - 02-11-2003 has there been any update on this , or are the wheels of the legal system as slow and rusty as they are here ? [signature]