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Fly Fishing question - palamon - 05-03-2007
I have just started using flies behind a bubble. I think that this is becoming one of my favorite ways to fish. (A close second is any other way that works at the time). I really like the excitement of fishing with a fly. I am very
though. How can you tell what color or shape of fly to use in a particular body of water? Is it through hours of experimentation, which unfortunately I do not have? Or is there an easier way?
I would appreciate any help that can be given.
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Re: [palamon] Fly Fishing question - lunkerhunter2 - 05-03-2007
Post this on the ff board. You will have better luck with an answer.
As far as what to use, it is by experience and help from people who know what to use. If you are on a still water a good fly for that is a wooly bugger, renegade, wooly worms or anything like these. Different colors for different waters also. A good rule of thumb is black's, green's and browns. Hope this helps.
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Re: [palamon] Fly Fishing question - Tarponjim - 05-03-2007
Concern yourself with 1) Size. 2) Shape. 3) Color. As was said, keep it basic. Renegades in say, #12 and #16. Wooly buggers in a couple sizes, and two colors--light and dark. Some blue Damsel Nymphs. Some greenish scuds in size #14. Maybe a few Elk Hair Caddis for some fun. That should cover 90 percent of your trout fishing needs. One box. Use as long of leader as you can comfortably cast, and get a spool of quality leader that's fairly small diameter, like 4X. Vary your retrieve speeds. Slower is usually better. In most places you'll be successful with a fly and bubble, the trout won't be too picky. If they are, you need the fly rod and a more precise presentation.
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Re: [palamon] Fly Fishing question - fishluvr - 05-03-2007
I've heard of fishing a fly behind a bubble but have never tried it. Would you mind elaborating a little as to how you do it and where you have tried it? Now that we can use two poles I would like to give this a try. Any information would be great, the more the merrier.
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Re: [fishluvr] Fly Fishing question - TubeDude - 05-03-2007
[cool][#0000ff]There are a lot of ways you can fish flies with a spinning rod, but the clear plastic bubble has been a popular method going way back to the sixties. I have used it for fishing flies in both still and moving waters and in both fresh water and salt.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Attached is a PDF file on a 4 page writeup I put together for someone a while back. Hope it gives you some good ideas.[/#0000ff]
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Re: [TubeDude] Fly Fishing question - Tarponjim - 05-04-2007
That little piece brought back some memories, especially the stick-on-the-line part. I used to drill a long hole lengthwise through wooden dowels and round the ends to use for "casting bubbles." It was cheaper than clear bubbles, gave a kid something to do when not fishing, and yes, I thought they looked more natural in front of my fly. I had fat ones, skinny ones, long, and short. I even painted some of the silly things, thinking I could attract the fish!
I no longer fish that way, but it works!
This winter, I actually used some of them as plugs for barracuda in Florida by running some wire through them, attaching a hook, and painting them "needlefish green." They were deadly! Outfished fancy $6 plugs like Zara Spooks, and cost just a few cents each.
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Re: [Tarponjim] Fly Fishing question - TubeDude - 05-04-2007
[cool][#0000ff]We are either both cheap...or just creative...or both. I have been making my own hardbaits and buzzers from plain old wooden dowels for years. I might have a dollar's worth of hardware in some of them, but they kick bass like the high price spread.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I'm attaching a couple of pics. What to you think of my floating buzzbait? I started by using a "dressed" hook...single or treble on the rear only. But, the fish kept attacking the front so I added a treble on the front and hookup percentages jumped. You can fish these things like hybrid poppers/buzzers. Fun, fun.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Back to fishing flies with sticks...I have used those sticks to float flies back under culverts before...and have really taken some nice trout with the "ninja bobbers".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If you have never tried it, you should try throwing a fly with a piece of fly line on your spinning rod. Also works with a short length of leadcore. I know guys that troll flies with a short length of leadcore ahead of a six foot leader and a fly.[/#0000ff]
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Re: [TubeDude] Fly Fishing question - Tarponjim - 05-04-2007
Yeah, that's good looking stuff. The beauty is not only in the creativeness and ability to make what you want, but that they are much tougher than the brittle plastic baits out there today, and cost a whole lot less! No tears when you lose one or they get all chewed up. I put some small blades (Devil's Horse style) on the cuda plugs this year, and used to make some red and white ones that were both durable and deadly on pike in Canada.
Haven't tried the fly line on a spinning rod, but can see how it could work. I haven't thrown a fly with spinning gear in 20-30 years since I use the fly rod as it was intended. However, the fly and bubble is a good way for many to be introduced to flies.
I still remember that loud SNAP! when I'd go to cast a full bubble of water half-way across a pond and the bail would "close itself." The bubble would keep flying clear to the next lake! The line snap would turn every head on the lake.
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Re: [palamon] Fly Fishing question - flygoddess - 05-04-2007
palamon, Not sure where you live, but Lunker has given some great suggestions.
Go with the basic flies like Woolly's in Black, Olive, Brown, white, maybe red and try two colors like orange and black.
Renegades are to represent snails so they are always a good choice.
Haresears, and Pheasant tails in different colors like say olive for the damsel numphs and a natural PT for a BWO. Plus try a Pheasant tail in RED with RED wire and a flash back......killer fly
Also your Copper Johns can imitate stones as well as the two just mentioned.
Got to try a Royal Wulff in both a wet (duck wing) and a dry (calf hair) plus try them with flour. green instead of the red belly.
Right now Chironomids are a main diet as Scuds are year round.
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Re: [Tarponjim] Fly Fishing question - WaveWolf - 05-04-2007
[#005028]Did you say no tears when you lose one that you have made? I cry a lot more when I have put blood, sweat, tears and creativity in a lure.[/#005028]
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Re: [WaveWolf] Fly Fishing question - TubeDude - 05-04-2007
[cool][#0000ff]Your own reaction to losing a "home made" lure will vary by the amount of "blood sweat and tears" you put into it. Some guys labor long and hard to turn out works of art...with painted on scales, fins and accurate color shadings, etc. If you are an artist, and treasure your creations, you shouldn't put them at risk...by fishing with them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Most of the stuff I make is strictly "production". As you can see by the pictures, I do basic colors and sizes only. They look good enough for the fish to attack, but do not take a lot of time to shape, sand, paint and finish. I make my lures to fish with and I have no emotional attachments to them. They are "soldiers" and they are "expendable". And, if I ain't puttin' 'em "in harm's way", I ain't fishin' 'em right.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In truth, I put a lot more time and creativity into the fancy painted jig heads I make. Proportionately to their size, I invest much more into each one of them than I do larger hardbaits. But, they ARE small, and I make them in batches of about two dozen at a time, along with several other colors. My batch mode and streamlined process allows me to turn out a lot of jigs in minimum time.[/#0000ff]
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Re: [TubeDude] Fly Fishing question - Flycasting - 05-04-2007
Although I willingly put your jig heads into harms way almost every fishing trip, I always do feel a little
if I lose one.... They catch me too many fish not to feel a little remorse... [
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Re: [Flycasting] Fly Fishing question - TubeDude - 05-04-2007
[cool][#0000ff]I hate to lose lures too. But I just salute a soldier lost in action and send out it's replacement to the battle lines.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]HEY PALOMON: Sorry about hijacking your thread about fly fishing. You have already been offered some great advice. Since I am a fly tyer and fly flinger too, I will see if I can toss out some worthy additions.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]First of all, I ain't no purist. I fish for all species on all tackle...flies, bait or lures. I fish to catch fish. There are lots of times and places where flies will outproduce even bait or other lures. Even when using flies is just another way to fish, they are fun to use and provide lots of personal enjoyment.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You say that you have already learned some of the basics, so no need to cover that. Your big concern seems to be how to choose the right fly for each occasion. NEWS FLASH: That is the biggie for fly fishermen the world over. Being able to "match the hatch"...or at least show the fish something that stimulates a strike...is a constant challenge. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]So, don't feel bad if you think you lack the "science". Sometimes it is more about "art" than entomology. Fish do things their own way, for their own reasons. They may be sipping teensy little bugs you can hardly see on the water, but will still whack a big ol' wooly bugger you drag through them behind a bubble. Of course, it can go the other way too and you can scare the spots off them with a sloppy cast with a 10 foot leader thrown on a $1000 flyrod.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Since I make my own flies, I can use whatever I want. But, I try to let the fish tell me what they want. One of the first things all fly flingers should try to learn is the food chain of the water upon which they are fishing...and how the different species use that food chain. A good example is Strawberry Reservoir. It used to be full of shiners and chubs...meat. Most of the cutts and many of the bows included them in their diet on a regular basis. But, the lake also has weed beds and several varieties of aquatic insects. It also has lots of crawdads. At different times of year, depending upon the spawning or emerging cycles of these different food items, the fish might be keying in on one or the other. Dedicated fly fishermen who fish Strawberry a lot can tell you about the difficulties during the annual midge megahatch. It becomes tough to catch fish on anything because they are so full of midges.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In other lakes, the fish feed on ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. Some waters have little natural food, and feeding is very competitive. Fish tend to munch first and check for edibility later. You can drag almost any kind of fly behind a bubble and get some action.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In most Utah lakes, you can figure that there will be a range of different food items. The fry of other species...like perch fry where they are resident...are often high on the list of fish groceries. When the fry are young-of-the-year, they are usually less than 2" long, and are more white or pearl colored than the barred yellow of larger perch. Any streamer or bugger in white or pale shades...around 2" long...will get slurped when fished either along the edges or even out on the surface in the middle of the lake.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Many lakes also have leeches or other worms. Marabou leech patterns or dark colored wooly buggers do a good job of representing these. Carry some in black, brown, green and/or purple...in different sizes from size 12 to size 2 or larger. These can also represent small crawdads or big larva, such as those from damsel flies, crane flies or dobson flies. They all have big ugly larvae during the aquatic part of their lifecycle.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are also lots of smaller aquatic insects...mayflies, caddis and even small freshwater shrimp in many waters. These are a big part of the diet in many waters, and there are hundreds of patterns to represent them. Keep a supply of nymphs is sizes from 16 to 6. Plain dark colors...black, brown, tan, peacock, etc....make good imitations. Add a bead head or some fancy ribbing and they can be even better. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]During the summer, many land dwelling insects either hop or fly into the water...or get blown into the water by our Utah zephyrs. These are known as "terrestrials". Any fly that imitates ants, beetles, caterpillers, moths or grasshoppers can get a splashy smash from hungry trout.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]When fishing during low light conditions...early morning, late evening or even after dark...tie on something big and black. It makes a good silhouette against the sky. And, some of the bigger fish feed better in low light conditions.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Enough about the "natural" colors. Sometimes you have to go with something that has good visibility or bright colors...just so the fish can see it or to stimulate a reaction bite. When fish are in a negative or neutral mode, they are not searching for food and you have to "move them". That's when something like a Renegade...with the white hackle...or a Royal Coachman...with the hot red cummerbund...can get a whack from curious or irritated fish.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Same thing with big colorful streamers. Keep some with whites, silvers, golds and big bushy feather or hair wings. Also keep some with red tag tails. These big and gaudy patterns will sometimes get results even when "matching the hatch" ain't gettin' it done. And, if it just scares the fish out onto the bank...well, you can at least pick one up for dinner. Not nice and not legal, but if you are starving for a fish dinner...wellllll.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Hope this helps. If you go to the library or the internet, you will see that this is the subject of bajillions of books and websites. Nobody knows all the answers, but it sure is fun learning the questions.[/#0000ff]
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Re: [TubeDude] Fly Fishing question - WaveWolf - 05-04-2007
[#005000]All good advice......You might want to try some of those hand made propellor flies or store bought Pistol Petes behind a bubble......Some might argue that they are not really a fly, but they work.......Start out with a green Pistol Pete, and share a post of how you did with it.[/#005000]
[#005000]If you adhere to all this advice, you should now have an empty wallet and a tackle box thet you cannot lift.[/#005000]
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