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+--- Thread: leader help (/showthread.php?tid=349362)
leader help - Troutlover - 07-10-2007
I'm a little rusty with my flies,[unsure] And would like some advice on leaders. I have had bad luck with tapered leaders breaking. I was wondering what the forum recomends? ie tess,length,tapered,not tapered,knots the works.
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - Troutlover - 07-10-2007
Whoops.. lol I will be fishing for trout specifically[angelic]
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - flygoddess - 07-11-2007
I am going to say FURLED leaders and a spool of P-Line flourocarbon in the appropriate lb. Put a perfection or a surgeons loop in the P-Line and attach loop to loop to the furled. A little Muclin for the leader .
I do make my own knotted leaders. I like Frogs material the best and I have several formulas.
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Re: [flygoddess] leader help - Saberfish - 07-11-2007
[black][size 3]I have never used a furled leader because I understand that even though they are great for dry fly fishing, they have a greater chance of tangling and knotting.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]Have you found that to be the case?[/size]
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[size 3]I do like hand tied tapered leaders, they seem to give me a better turnover.[/size]
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Re: [Saberfish] leader help - flygoddess - 07-11-2007
Out of 4 years of using Furled Leaders I have had one or two get knotted to the point of no return, but, it usually happens if it is real windy or big flies or loosing your rythmn. I am proud to say the past year and a half I have had no knots!
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - riverdog - 07-11-2007
I've become a huge fan of Orvis mirage flourocarbon taper leader. I use 3x -6x, 7 1/2 or 9 foot leader. I found the 7x to breakoff when casting flies sometimes so I seldom use. I do however use the 6x almost all the time and find it almost never breaks even with a 3 or 4 lb fish in rapid water. I would bet it breaks off less than once ever couple hundred fish, something I never found with any other leader including other flourocarbons.
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Re: [riverdog] leader help - flygoddess - 07-11-2007
Right on! As far as tippet (when I have to use it for tiny flies) I will swear by Mirage also and I agree with the 6X. Even on the 30's, I just tie the fly on with a Surgeon's loop so it will wiggle.
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - PBH - 07-11-2007
You've got some good advice. Take mine for nothing more than what it's worth...
I'm a pretty boring guy. I buy boring stuff. I rarely use tippet, tapered leaders, furled leaders, etc.
I almost exclusively use mono. 6-8lb test for the most part. If I use clippers (vs. biting it) I can thread it through some pretty small flies. It's strong. It gets knots. It's cheap. It's available when nothing else is (rural Utah). I catch spooky fish using it.
Just my 2 cents.
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Re: [PBH] leader help - flygoddess - 07-11-2007
I use straight flouro for sinking lines or even just flies where a presentation is not an issue. But for dry fly fishing I need that taper to roll over and lay the fly out purdy. Seems the longer I fish the cheaper I get and I agree on the regular mono or in my case flouro. I will even make leader out of 8lb, to 6lb, to 4lb and in some cases down to 2lb of P-Line. The 2lb is about equal to a 6X. A little thicker than tippet, but still thin enough for my smaller flies.
But I do have the (very expensive, but I had gift cards) Frogs Hair leader kit and I do use it for more delicate tapers.
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - campfire - 07-11-2007
I use different leaders for different applications. For sinking line I agree with Flygoddess and PBH. I usually just use some 6 lb mono line as leader and nothing else. For dry fly fishing I agree with Flygoddess. I think my hand tied tappered leaders starting with very heavy material ( 30 lb) lay out a bit better. But for nymphing I like my custom nymph leaders. I start with 6 1/2 feet of very heavy material (20-30lb) then about 2 1/2feet of 8lb material then tippet (usually 3X to my first fly and 4x to my dropper. After knots are tied it comes out to be about 9 feet. I do this because I can put a strike indicator on the heavy section and adjust it anywhere on that section to accomodate changes in depth and speed of water but it will stay right where I put it. This is not the case with knotless tappered leaders.My 2 cents.
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Re: [campfire] leader help - packfish - 07-11-2007
I tie most of my own leaders and like them better than store bought though I have been known to buy some Rio's when in dire straits. I build different length and weight leaders for differnt rods which are set up for different types of fishing. I use different brands of mono through out the leader because of stiffness qualities.
And as fas a knot goes if you were referring to the knot from the tippet to the fly I use a std clinch knot a double clinch.
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Re: [packfish] leader help - Troutlover - 07-12-2007
Thanks for all of the advice, I was wondering what length everyone suggests, I've been taught 4-6 feet.
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - flygoddess - 07-13-2007
7 1/2' is the normal for me. In winter I will go 9'. And stillwater I have gone 30', but you don't cast that baby.
If I were to buy a leader I would buy a 7 1/2' and add tippet of equal or smaller to make it 9'.
4 to 6 seems a little short to me.
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - riverdog - 07-13-2007
I also usually use 7 and 1/2. I will use 9 ft if needed because of easily spooked fish. I only occasionally bother with tippet anymore as when I use 6x leader I seemed to get by without it just fine. I'll switch from fishing a small dry to a #10 tungsten beadhead nymph on the 6x tapered leader with only about 30 second break in the fishing. I try to keep it as simply as possible as I'm lazy and I don't catch any fish when I'm messing with my setup
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Re: [Troutlover] leader help - ScottyP - 07-15-2007
I usually just go with the rio tapered leaders-- most commonly 9' tapered to 5X. Then I add a couple feet of 5x or 6x tippet depending on the conditions and size of fly. These last me for awile because I carry 3 sizes of tippet on my lanyard and another 4 sizes in my fanny pack, and I'll just rebuild on the same butt section after the occasional leader disaster. I always use blood knots for my connections (I can tie a blood knot in seconds).
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Re: [ScottyP] leader help - Tarponjim - 07-15-2007
Now that sounds more like it! Keep it simple, and long for a good presentation. I use 4 feet of 25 lb. Maxima (stiff as a board!) for a butt section, then attach the center part (about 6 feet) of any tapered leader, then attach about 3-4 feet of tippet. All with blood knots. I've been using this for over 20 years, and it works great on any decent sized water. On small creeks, you may want to shorten the taper/tippet to around 4 to 6 feet.
This makes drag-free floats a breeze. It makes it nearly impossible to "line" a fish, and lets you change tippets regularly if you must. You can use the same butt section all season, and rarely need to change the tapered mid-section. Use a 3x tapered mid section, and you can go smaller from there when necessary. Generally, the lighter the tippet you need, the longer you'll want the leader anyway.
As troutlover says, all you need to carry is a few spools of tippet on the lanyard, necklace, or in your pocket.
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Re: [Tarponjim] leader help - ScottyP - 07-16-2007
I may have to try the 25 lb maxima when I replace the butt sections on my leaders. Thanks for the idea Tarponjim.
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Re: [ScottyP] leader help - packfish - 07-18-2007
Go with the chameleon if possible on the Maxima. Depending on the rod I either use the 25 or drop to the 20#. I only use Maxima for the first two sections . I carry around that damn little micrometer when I go into Sportsman. Kinda of a pain but you will find changes from purchase to purchase in the caliper of the same lines.
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Re: [Tarponjim] leader help - riverdog - 07-29-2007
Tarponjim and others who use the blood knot to tie tippet to leader I'm just curious how often do you find this knot to break? I frequently will skip tippet altogether when fishing 6x flourocarbon but I do use tippet with larger leaders. I haven't tied a blood knot in a couple years. I usually use a surgeons knot with wrapping around 3 times instead of 2. I would say this fails me a couple fish in a hundred and off course those are always the bigger ones. I thought I read that blood knots were not quite as strong as surgeons knots. I'm just wondering why you use it and if it may be worth me trying blood knots again.
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Re: [riverdog] leader help - Saberfish - 07-29-2007
[black][size 3]For what it's worth, I use blood knots for all the connections in my leaders, except for the tippet. To connect and change tippet material, I use the surgeon's knot, mostly because it's quick and easy to tie. I have done this for many years, and have never found a reason to go back to straight blood knots.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]I also use the 3 wraps instead of the 2, as usually shown in knot tying instructions.[/size]
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[size 3]At any time that I have come "unbuttoned" from a fish, it hasn't been because of the surgeon's knot.[/size]
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