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ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - Printable Version

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ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - ydoc - 05-13-2011

<Sorry for the lengthy post!)

Hi guys (and gals), remember me? If you DO remember, it was about a about a year ago that I last posted… but health/medical issues have kept me away for a while (but that’s ANOTHER story).

I was also the one that fashioned my early-design PVC rod-holders so that they would accommodate my older pistol-gripped casting rods. (I was reminded that nobody uses those kind of rods any more… ) [crazy]

Anyway, a little over a year ago, I purchased a Creek Company ODC 420 off of the “net”. Using several ideas from this site (thanks TubeDude), I built a two-per-side rod holder. (Pictures attached.)
I mostly fish for largemouth bass, so I find myself –for the most part – fishing shoreline structure or timber. Using fins as propulsion, I’m usually fishing backwards. And since I’m right-handed, I prefer to cast out the left-hand side of my tube. By placing the “stand-by” rods in the LH holders, it allows me free movement on the RH side for my “back-cast”.

However, I like to take four rod/reel combos out with me, so I found the need to have at least a three-rod-holder rack per side. This would allow me to fish with one rod, and still have the three others rigged and ready on ONE side – depending on my casting direction.

I carry only a few small tools – needle-nosed pliers, hook remover, etc. – and those are usually stored in the tube’s pockets, so my rack needs are simple… they only need to hold the rod/reel combo’s I bring.

A lot of my fishing involves fishing farm ponds. Most require somewhat of a hike to get to the water’s edge. As such, it’s also important to have a system by which I can carry everything in one trip, and WEIGHT is also VERY MUCH a concern… This became apparent when I realized that had built the “old” racks out of schedule 40 PVC… which is MUCH heavier than the schedule 20 stuff!

Shifting gears here (stay with me)… [blush]

Although the ODC 420 had served me very well during the 2010 fishing season, I also had some become aware of a couple of its shortcomings… at least for me:

1) Pockets. Although the ODC 420 has plenty of storage space, the design of the pockets, and more specifically the zippered-openings, leave a lot to be desired! Why didn’t they design the zippers to be full-length (relative to the pocket), or U-shaped zippers to allow FULL access to the pocket? When your design places the zipper in the center of the pocket , then as you open it to put in a small tackle box, the ends of the zippers move towards each other (to allow the opening to open wider) effectively reducing even further the effective size of the opening! I managed by using smaller boxes, but just thought it to be a poor design.

2) Air Valves. The ODC 420 has two bladders so it has two valves respectively, but they put the valves INSIDE of the pockets. Although a two-bladder system does have some inherent safety advantages, I found that this design presents two problems. First, the valves are not flush or recessed, so you actually lose some inside-the-pocket space to accommodate the valves. It’s not a LOT, but you can tell… Secondly, I transport my tube in the trunk of my Honda Accord. That means I have to deflate the tube to put IN the trunk, inflate it at the pond site, deflate it again for the ride home, and inflate it again when I get home (to aid in drying and to retain its shape). EACH inflation/deflation means that I ALSO have to empty/replace all that respective pocket’s contents to facilitate the inflation/deflation process. Besides being annoying, I’ve actually lost/left behind some items in the weeds around a pond, because of having to do this!

So in addition to wanting to build a lighter-weight, three-rod rack, I also started eyeing the Outcast Super Fat Cats. I purchased a new, but “pre-owned” SFC on eBay last December.

To resolve the light-weight rod rack issue for my new SFC, I purchased four Berkley rod holders – two needed for each tube (pic attached). The only issue was that my pistol-gripped rods had a slightly larger than 2” size, and the rod-holder opening was JUST 2”. But a quick “sanding” of the rod-grips provided just enough clearance for the Berkley holders to work.

OK, but now how do you mount this “flat” rack to the side of a “ROUND” tube?

Well, I built a simple “adapter” out of ¾” PVC (schedule 20 this time!) and bolted it to the rack. I used the same mounting mechanism that I used on the heavier, first-attempt PVC racks by cutting a notch in the PVC end cap and then drilling a hole to accommodate a retention pin. This time I used a simple – both in design AND cost – safety-pin type connecting pin. (Pictures attached)


The result?

The previous two-rod holder weighed 3.2 pounds, EACH. The new three-rod holder weighs in at a svelte 1.4 pounds! That’s a 3.6 pound savings on the two rod racks alone! (That may not seem like much, but when you’re carrying a bunch of gear a ¼ of a mile to get to a farm pond, EVERY pound counts!)

Now what about the SFC vs. the ODC?

Pros: 1) Just from a “feel” perspective, the SFC “feels” like it’s better quality materials. 2) The pocket-design is FAR superior, and 3) I love the not-in-pocket valve access.

Cons: 1) Just a personal thing, but I like the TWO bladder system on the ODC – if only just from a safety perspective. 2) I like the way that the ODC retains its “v-shape” better when I sit in the tube. I weigh at least 240lbs. with waders and all. When I sit in the SFC, it “brings IN the sides” and “pontoon points” more than the ODC. I attribute that more to the rigid foam seat and seat-back of the ODC vs. the inflatable “cushions” of the SFC. 3) I also like the flat apron on the ODC better (and yes, I DO realize that the “deck-type” apron is a new “innovation” on the SFC). But I think that after a few outings, I'll get used to the SFC apron.

Bottom line?

I love my new rod racks, they work GREAT!

The ODC 420 and the SFC are both great tubes… both have their advantages and diSadvantages. Which is “better” will depend a lot on – I think – the USER’S preferences... and budget. My SFC cost nearly $250 more than my ODC 420. Yeah, I’m aware of the bladder quality, etc. – just noting that there’s also a significant difference in price; especially for those on a “budget”. Still, I don’t think you can really go wrong with either. And in any case, I now have TWO float-tubes, one for me and one for my wife or a buddy to go get some basses… [Wink]
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Re: [ydoc] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - pontoonman - 05-13-2011

Interesting post. Hope the comments below help. I think everything just depends on someones ORDER of preferences. Some things that are a bad design for some are a real pain for others!

[quote ydoc]<Sorry for the lengthy post!)

Hi guys (and gals), remember me? If you DO remember, it was about a about a year ago that I last posted… but health/medical issues have kept me away for a while (but that’s ANOTHER story).

I was also the one that fashioned my early-design PVC rod-holders so that they would accommodate my older pistol-gripped casting rods. (I was reminded that nobody uses those kind of rods any more… ) [crazy]

Anyway, a little over a year ago, I purchased a Creek Company ODC 420 off of the “net”. Using several ideas from this site (thanks TubeDude), I built a two-per-side rod holder. (Pictures attached.)


I mostly fish for largemouth bass, so I find myself –for the most part – fishing shoreline structure or timber. Using fins as propulsion, I’m usually fishing backwards. And since I’m right-handed, I prefer to cast out the left-hand side of my tube. By placing the “stand-by” rods in the LH holders, it allows me free movement on the RH side for my “back-cast”.

However, I like to take four rod/reel combos out with me, so I found the need to have at least a three-rod-holder rack per side. This would allow me to fish with one rod, and still have the three others rigged and ready on ONE side – depending on my casting direction.

I carry only a few small tools – needle-nosed pliers, hook remover, etc. – and those are usually stored in the tube’s pockets, so my rack needs are simple… they only need to hold the rod/reel combo’s I bring.

A lot of my fishing involves fishing farm ponds. Most require somewhat of a hike to get to the water’s edge. As such, it’s also important to have a system by which I can carry everything in one trip, and WEIGHT is also VERY MUCH a concern… This became apparent when I realized that had built the “old” racks out of schedule 40 PVC… which is MUCH heavier than the schedule 20 stuff!
Yes, the 3 most important things for the type of fishin you describe are weigh/volume....

Shifting gears here (stay with me)… [blush]

Although the ODC 420 had served me very well during the 2010 fishing season, I also had some become aware of a couple of its shortcomings… at least for me:

1) Pockets. Although the ODC 420 has plenty of storage space, the design of the pockets, and more specifically the zippered-openings, leave a lot to be desired! Why didn’t they design the zippers to be full-length (relative to the pocket), or U-shaped zippers to allow FULL access to the pocket? When your design places the zipper in the center of the pocket , then as you open it to put in a small tackle box, the ends of the zippers move towards each other (to allow the opening to open wider) effectively reducing even further the effective size of the opening! I managed by using smaller boxes, but just thought it to be a poor design.

The design does require smaller boxes, but the pockets keep their shape with the zipper design, and you are less likely to lose something overboard as you bring it something else out.

2) Air Valves. The ODC 420 has two bladders so it has two valves respectively, but they put the valves INSIDE of the pockets. Although a two-bladder system does have some inherent safety advantages, I found that this design presents two problems. First, the valves are not flush or recessed, so you actually lose some inside-the-pocket space to accommodate the valves. It’s not a LOT, but you can tell… Secondly, I transport my tube in the trunk of my Honda Accord. That means I have to deflate the tube to put IN the trunk, inflate it at the pond site, deflate it again for the ride home, and inflate it again when I get home (to aid in drying and to retain its shape). EACH inflation/deflation means that I ALSO have to empty/replace all that respective pocket’s contents to facilitate the inflation/deflation process. Besides being annoying, I’ve actually lost/left behind some items in the weeds around a pond, because of having to do this!

The valves can be accessed while on the lake unlike SFC, to make pressure adjustments with a small pump, according to shrinkage/expansion, no more going to shore when you find you're underinflated due to cold water.

I could never handle that many inflation cycles! The ODC is kept inflated in my garage loaded and with two short custom poles fastened flat (velcro), the tips poking out thru the opening at the pointed end. All chambers are inflated including the seat back, except the bottom seat. This allows the two main tubes to be pushed closer together, so the whole thing fits in the back of my hatchback Prius. When I get to destination, there is only the bottom seat to inflate. On return, just drain and dry with a towel and deflate the bottom seat to put the whole thing back in the car! There are clip on backstraps for the ODC that allow transport from car to/from river up to a mile away, but I don't have any brush that would block transporting the fully inflated tube to the site. Can you strap your boat to the top of your car with ratchet straps, so you can avoid all this hassle with inflation/deflation?

So in addition to wanting to build a lighter-weight, three-rod rack, I also started eyeing the Outcast Super Fat Cats. I purchased a new, but “pre-owned” SFC on eBay last December.

To resolve the light-weight rod rack issue for my new SFC, I purchased four Berkley rod holders – two needed for each tube (pic attached). The only issue was that my pistol-gripped rods had a slightly larger than 2” size, and the rod-holder opening was JUST 2”. But a quick “sanding” of the rod-grips provided just enough clearance for the Berkley holders to work.

OK, but now how do you mount this “flat” rack to the side of a “ROUND” tube?

Well, I built a simple “adapter” out of ¾” PVC (schedule 20 this time!) and bolted it to the rack. I used the same mounting mechanism that I used on the heavier, first-attempt PVC racks by cutting a notch in the PVC end cap and then drilling a hole to accommodate a retention pin. This time I used a simple – both in design AND cost – safety-pin type connecting pin. (Pictures attached)


The result?

The previous two-rod holder weighed 3.2 pounds, EACH. The new three-rod holder weighs in at a svelte 1.4 pounds! That’s a 3.6 pound savings on the two rod racks alone! (That may not seem like much, but when you’re carrying a bunch of gear a ¼ of a mile to get to a farm pond, EVERY pound counts!)

Yes, I use "U" bolts to make my holders or twist a spiral of flat metal bar which hold any pole except for fly type. Very light and simple.

Now what about the SFC vs. the ODC?

Pros: 1) Just from a “feel” perspective, the SFC “feels” like it’s better quality materials. 2) The pocket-design is FAR superior, and 3) I love the not-in-pocket valve access.

The pocket design on the ODC allows you to keep things separated in compartments, which makes things easier to find quickly.

Cons: 1) Just a personal thing, but I like the TWO bladder system on the ODC – if only just from a safety perspective. 2) I like the way that the ODC retains its “v-shape” better when I sit in the tube. I weigh at least 240lbs. with waders and all. When I sit in the SFC, it “brings IN the sides” and “pontoon points” more than the ODC. I attribute that more to the rigid foam seat and seat-back of the ODC vs. the inflatable “cushions” of the SFC. 3) I also like the flat apron on the ODC better (and yes, I DO realize that the “deck-type” apron is a new “innovation” on the SFC). But I think that after a few outings, I'll get used to the SFC apron.

The ODC can be converted to inflatable cushions and the seating adjusted so it is much more comfortable, plus you control how high out of water you sit and the point separation with inflation pressure.

Bottom line?

I love my new rod racks, they work GREAT!

The ODC 420 and the SFC are both great tubes… both have their advantages and diSadvantages. Which is “better” will depend a lot on – I think – the USER’S preferences... and budget. My SFC cost nearly $250 more than my ODC 420. Yeah, I’m aware of the bladder quality, etc. – just noting that there’s also a significant difference in price; especially for those on a “budget”. Still, I don’t think you can really go wrong with either. And in any case, I now have TWO float-tubes, one for me and one for my wife or a buddy to go get some basses… [Wink][/quote]
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Re: [ydoc] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - flygoddess - 05-13-2011

I love the Berkley idea, that would probably be my choice if I were to attach Vertical rod holders. Is there no need to secure the bottom of the rod holder?
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Re: [flygoddess] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - Fishtales23 - 05-13-2011

I'm not fond of vertical rod racks, too easy to get in the way of casting.

I recently fished a float tube tournament and a guy had made his own rod holder that he fashioned after this one:

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search/?N=1102581&Ne=1102581&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=rod+rack&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchall&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products&WTz_st=SearchRefinements&form_state=searchForm&search=rod+rack&x=0&y=0
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Re: [ydoc] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - albinotrout - 05-14-2011

Good design. Very similarto the ones I built using PVC. I use the same clip idea.
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Re: [ydoc] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - TubeDude - 05-14-2011

[cool][#0000ff]Welcome back. Hope everything (medical) is under control and that you are fully able to enjoy your fishing more.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Thanks for the personal evaluation of the two craft and the insight as to the pros and cons of each. That is always helpful to new folks that are trying to make decisions on new purchases. Ultimately, we all make our own choices for our own reasons...and they are usually different.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Nice work on the modifications. I'm betting that you will "keep messin' widdit" as long as you are tubing. I sure have.[/#0000ff]
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Re: [pontoonman] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - ydoc - 05-14-2011

Thanks for your reply! [Smile]

I inserted some comments and additional information to your reply...

[quote pontoonman]Interesting post. Hope the comments below help. I think everything just depends on someones ORDER of preferences. Some things that are a bad design for some are a real pain for others!

[#BF0000]Exactly! I certainly wasn't "dissing" one over the other, but just some observations from MY experience... [/#BF0000]

[quote ydoc]<Sorry for the lengthy post!)

<snip>

The design does require smaller boxes, but the pockets keep their shape with the zipper design, and you are less likely to lose something overboard as you bring it something else out.

[#BF0000]As a bass-fisherman, I have a number of different sized Plano storage "boxes". It was frustrating to me to find a box that was the right size for the POCKET, but couldn't get it into the pocket because of the smaller opening. OR... I could get a smaller one in, and then couldn't get in a second one, again, because of the zipper/opening design.

I've not had a problem with EITHER tube losing it's pocket shape, nor losing something overboard as I bring something else out.

Just wish the ODC zipper openings were at the "top" or "end" of the pocket, or u-shaped, vs. the shorter-than pocket and center of pocket zippers that they have now. It would be a simple design change that wouldn't increase the cost (much).

And again, just what *I* have noticed for the way *I* fish.
[/#BF0000]
The valves can be accessed while on the lake unlike SFC, to make pressure adjustments with a small pump, according to shrinkage/expansion, no more going to shore when you find you're underinflated due to cold water.

[#BF0000]Yeah, I suppose... but haven't ever had that be an issue (here in the Midwest). But then again, I don't fish in the very cold waters like some of you do... Don't even carry a pump with me - at least not out in the tube.[/#BF0000]

I could never handle that many inflation cycles! The ODC is kept inflated in my garage loaded and with two short custom poles fastened flat (velcro), the tips poking out thru the opening at the pointed end. All chambers are inflated including the seat back, except the bottom seat. This allows the two main tubes to be pushed closer together, so the whole thing fits in the back of my hatchback Prius. When I get to destination, there is only the bottom seat to inflate. On return, just drain and dry with a towel and deflate the bottom seat to put the whole thing back in the car! There are clip on backstraps for the ODC that allow transport from car to/from river up to a mile away, but I don't have any brush that would block transporting the fully inflated tube to the site. Can you strap your boat to the top of your car with ratchet straps, so you can avoid all this hassle with inflation/deflation?

[#BF0000]A point of clarification... I have the ODC "Standard" model - with rigid foam seat and seat-back. It sounds like you're describing the ODC "Light"?

Don't have a hatchback... and even the back seats don't fold down. I have to fit my tube INSIDE of the trunk on my Accord. I've put it in nose first and then bungee'd the trunk lid down (putting protection between the lid and the tube), but if you travel 4-5 miles of gravel roads like I do to get to a (farm) pond, the trunk-inside and tube are a MESS! [:/]
[/#BF0000]

Yes, I use "U" bolts to make my holders or twist a spiral of flat metal bar which hold any pole except for fly type. Very light and simple.

[#BF0000]I'm always interested in alternative designs, do you have any pictures of these? THANKS!

[/#BF0000]The pocket design on the ODC allows you to keep things separated in compartments, which makes things easier to find quickly.

[#BF0000]I use size and need appropriate Plano boxes for that. BOTH tubes allow you to keep things separated to varying extents.

[/#BF0000]
The ODC can be converted to inflatable cushions and the seating adjusted so it is much more comfortable, plus you control how high out of water you sit and the point separation with inflation pressure.

[#BF0000]As I noted above, I have the ODC "Standard" with the foam seat and back. It's VERY comfortable for me... no complaints there! It also floats me very high (even with my size [crazy][/#BF0000]. [#BF0000]And in fact, prefer ITS seating vs. the inflatable SFC's... But the SFC inflatable seat/cushion fits INSIDE of my small trunk better.

Again, every person is different, was just stating observations based on MY situation...

[/#BF0000][/quote][/quote]
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Re: [flygoddess] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - ydoc - 05-14-2011

Hi Goddess! [blush]

The "stand-off's" that I use place the holders at a slight outward angle. That angle is enough to put sufficient downward/toward-the-tube pressure to keep everything where it should be. I didn't HAVE to even put the foam on the bottoms of the racks, but just did so... 'cause I don't want anything rubbing on the tube materials. (But that's just me... [Wink])

I've glued everything from the slotted-cap out to the "T"... but have left the joints from the "T" to the cross-member UNGLUED. That allows the rack itself to pivot, thereby permitting me to change the angle of the rack while out on the water.

I've found that the racks may flop a little while I'm carrying the tube to the pond (using the shoulder/backpack straps), but have found the weight of the rod/reels when in the racks (on the water), is sufficient to keep everything in place without having to secure the bottoms of the rack
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Re: [Fishtales23] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - ydoc - 05-14-2011

Thanks for your reply...

Yeah, it's quite the conundrum! <lol> The vertical racks can get in the way of casting... but the horizontal racks (as your link suggests) aren't worth beans in heavily timbered waters either! [Wink] (See attached pictures)

While the timber in the ponds I fish are RARELY as thick as the one in the attached photo, there's usually enough that a horizontal layout would not work at all.

I also put enough rod-holders on each side, so that ALL of the rods I bring with me, will be ONLY on one side. Which side will depend on the direction around the pond that I'm fishing. I like having them on the LH side, so that my back-cast (to the RH side) doesn't catch any rods. Additionally, the racks are placed a little further "back" from the center of the seat, so that I won't contact them on the "front-cast" either.

On the other hand... a compromise "angled-vertical" (see attached pictures) would really work best. BUT, building something like that - especially considering the Berkley "pre-made" racks - would be too much work. [crazy] <lol>

Again, the type of waters - open vs. timbered - would play a big part in selecting the layout that would work best for each individual. I was just sharing what works best for me. [img]../../../images/gforum/laugh.gif[/img]

[quote Fishtales23]I'm not fond of vertical rod racks, too easy to get in the way of casting.

I recently fished a float tube tournament and a guy had made his own rod holder that he fashioned after this one:

[url "http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search/?N=1102581&Ne=1102581&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=rod+rack&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchall&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products&WTz_st=SearchRefinements&form_state=searchForm&search=rod+rack&x=0&y=0[/quote]"]http://www.cabelas.com/...x=0&y=0[/quote][/url]
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Re: [TubeDude] ODC 420 / Super Fat Cat Comparison AND Rod Racks - LONG!! - ydoc - 05-14-2011

Thanks 'Dude! [Image: happy.gif]

Healthwise, still on the mend. And some of the lingering complications will probable affect me for some time... but sure am planning on NOT letting it impact my ability to go fishing!! [Wink]

As you noted, everybody's fishing (locations/styles) and needs are different - both in regard to my rack design and tube observations. I just wanted to share MINE... and give back a little to this site that has helped me so much in the past!

And as for the [#0000ff]"keep messin' widdit"[/#0000ff] <lol> notice that I left the PVC "cross-member" mounting piece OPEN at the ends!! I did that intentionally so that IF I decided to extend it - from either/both end(s) - I could easily do so. They're ALWAYS a work in progress, huh! [Wink]

[quote TubeDude][cool][#0000ff]Welcome back. Hope everything (medical) is under control and that you are fully able to enjoy your fishing more.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Thanks for the personal evaluation of the two craft and the insight as to the pros and cons of each. That is always helpful to new folks that are trying to make decisions on new purchases. Ultimately, we all make our own choices for our own reasons...and they are usually different.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Nice work on the modifications. I'm betting that you will "keep messin' widdit" as long as you are tubing. I sure have.[/#0000ff][/quote]
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