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+--- Thread: Scofield 5/19 and gill net (/showthread.php?tid=665844)
Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Jacksonman - 05-20-2011
One of my out of state fishing buddies came back into town for a few days even though the weather and moon charts weren't ideal. We arrived at 8 a.m. at the boat ramp and noticed 7 or 8 different DWR trucks around and several officers down at the bottom of the boat ramp.
My first thought was why they needed 8-12 officers to check for zebra mussels on a day when no more than a few boats would launch (ended up not seeing another boat all day). Then we saw that they were collecting gill nets and I actually got excited to be abel to see some of the results.
The results were: CHUBS!! And lots of them. They said they placed 5 nets and we saw the results of 4 of them. There were lots of tiger trout with several big females between 4 an 7 lbs. There were only 2 or 3 cutts and 1 bow from what I can remember and a good amount of smaller tigers. But the chubs were abundant, ranging from very small to very large. I am still yet to catch a chub from Scofield, probably due to how I fish, but the chubs were throughout just about every net.
Seeing all the chubs with several large tigers tells me that the tigers are getting huge eating chubs, the cutts aren't as successful as the tigers at eating chubs or are just deeper away from the nets, and the bows aren't going to make a comeback. I also think the tigers and cutts aren't really doing a good enough job at controlling the chubs.
With the new tiger musky program, I am thinking that several thousand musky need to planted into Scofield (and hoping that it will happen). Scofield is too big to poison, and I don't think they want to drain it. The musky could take care of the chub and then receive smaller and smaller plantings just to keep the chub in tact. We don't want Scofield to turn into a Joe's Valley with a few huge trout and lots of small ones, so hopefully they put the Musky in there soon.
As far as our fishing report goes, the weather was crazy with lots of snow mixed with sunshine, but no wind at all for most of the trip. But the fishing was horribly slow and we tried everything and every spot that we have fished with success in the past. We ended up with about 10 fish in 6 or 7 hours, all but one being a tiger. Thankfully 6 of the fish were over 17"s with two right around 22-23". It was still fun getting out and seeing the gill net results in person.
Any other ideas as to how to handle the Scofield chub problem?
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Re: [Jacksonman] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Fishrmn - 05-20-2011
[quote Jacksonman]With the new tiger musky program, I am thinking that several thousand musky need to planted into Scofield (and hoping that it will happen). Scofield is too big to poison, and I don't think they want to drain it. The musky could take care of the chub and then receive smaller and smaller plantings just to keep the chub in tact. We don't want Scofield to turn into a Joe's Valley with a few huge trout and lots of small ones, so hopefully they put the Musky in there soon.
Any other ideas as to how to handle the Scofield chub problem?[/quote]
I wouldn't hold my breath. I doubt they're gonna put Tiger Musky in there. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. There is probably as good of a chance of rotenone as Muskies.
It wouldn't hurt to have everyone fish with small pieces of worm and catch & kill all of the chubs that you can get your hands on. Take a minnow trap or two every time you go there too.
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Re: [Jacksonman] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - doggonefishin - 05-20-2011
Re"Seeing all the chubs with several large tigers tells me that the tigers are getting huge eating chubs, the cutts aren't as successful as the tigers at eating chubs or are just deeper away from the nets, and the bows aren't going to make a comeback."
It is a totally unscientific observation on my part, but all of the cutts I have caught since the chubs and the slot arrived have been rail thin and sickly. It suggests to me that the Bear Lake cutts aren't working like they do at the Berry. (Possibly water depth? Strawberry deep reservoir/Scofield relatively shallow) I'm with Fishrmn. I am inclined to vote for using the rotenone and starting over, then put in a slot so the chubs, if they return, don't get the upper hand. Scofield has been treated 2-3 times before with some success, so it isn't too big to treat.
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Jacksonman - 05-20-2011
by too big to treat with rotenone, I mean that it will be too expensive. I know it can be done but it would require too much money. I would be fine with treating it and starting over but would hate to see the very healthy population of tigers killed off. If they could somehow go through and scoop them up and put them in a holding tank until they were done with the treatment.
With the new tiger muskie program, throwing in 10k musky and then 5k more every year for a few years and then 2k a year once the chubs were in check seems like a very simple and cheaper solution. In addition, it would add another sport fish that would create more angler hours on the lake.
Maybe add some sterile smallmouth? I just don't see what other options they have if rotenone is too expensive.
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Re: [Jacksonman] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - doggonefishin - 05-20-2011
Yeah, that could work, but it could take years to see results, and the TM program is going to have demands for fish from a lot of areas, so I just don't know if they will go that direction. If they did it, I wouldn't object however. One other thing to consider, chubs are an open water fish as adults. TM are an ambush predator. The two may not interesct enough to really wipe out the chubs. (How would open water wipers do in high elevation Scofield?) As we have talked before, I would rather see TM in Fish Lake to control the weed hugging perch than see them in Scofield for the chubs.
As for the tiger trout, I know you love those guys, and I have enjoyed a few of your big pals myself, but the Frankenfish guys at the hatchery will make plenty more to stock and they will get just as big after a treatment, so I suppose it isn't that big of deal to me if they are lost in a treatment.
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Jacksonman - 05-20-2011
Wipers would definitely be a neat option and I would love to see the Fish lake recommendation of kokes, browns, tiger trout and musky get added to Fish Lake. A combination of tiger muskie and wipers would be awesome if Scofield is a suitable lake for both species. I also wouldn't mind some sterile smallmouth.
I hope Utah has plans to expand the musky program because lots of lake could use them (Deer Creek, Jordanelle, Scofield, Fish Lake, Yuba, etc.)
I would understand killing off all the big tigers in Scofield but a little piece of me would really be in pain to know it will be another 3-4 years until they started getting big again!
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - GEEZER - 05-21-2011
Biggest problem I see with the introduction of another predator species is, those predators eat other fish, not just chubs. Stockings of trout would be mainly tiger musky fodder.
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Re: [GEEZER] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Fishrmn - 05-21-2011
[quote GEEZER]Biggest problem I see with the introduction of another predator species is, those predators eat other fish, not just chubs. Stockings of trout would be mainly tiger musky fodder.[/quote]
And hence, Tiger Muskies are doubtful at best. Wipers won't happen. Too high of elevation. Kokanee probably won't either.
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Re: [GEEZER] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Jacksonman - 05-21-2011
But if bows and cutts are stocked at 7-9 inches, I would have to believe that the musky would prey on smaller chubs. Tiger trout could still be planted smaller like 4-5 inches and hope some survive. Once the chubs are in control, plant less and less musky.
Not saying it will solve all problems but it would sure be a cheaper, easier and more fun solution than draining and rotenone.
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Re: [Jacksonman] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - LOAH - 05-21-2011
There are already browns and TM in Fish Lake. The TM aren't there on purpose though. Perhaps it would be considered to intentionally stock them there. The browns are wild (and big from what I've seen evidence of).
I seriously doubt that the DWR has any interest in adding more species to FL. There are already more than ideal, from what I gather.
Why would they put kokanee in Scofield though? I don't see what kind of damage they'd do to the chub population. It's dubious that they'd even take hold and be able to grow with all of the chubs competing for the same food. Same with the 7-9 inch trout. There are already too many 7-9 inch chubs holding those back.
There's no easy fix for Scofield. The balance of power has tipped toward the dominant species: the chub.
I'd love to hear what a DWR biologist has to add to this thread.
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Re: [LOAH] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - cpierce - 05-21-2011
An interesting article on the chubs:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/blog/2011/a-strategy-for-scofield/
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Re: [LOAH] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Jacksonman - 05-21-2011
Let me clarify. My post may have been confusing.
A few months ago, a study was finished up at Fish lake. It was recommended that Tiger Trout and Browns be regularly stocked into Fish Lake to better control the perch population. It was also mentioned that Tiger Musky could also be stocked. They also recommended that kokes be stocked to fill the void in the middle of the lake and to give the macks something else to eat. It was thought that the kokes could be somewhat naturally sustaining with a little bit of supplemental planting. I would have no reason to fish anywhere else if all of these recommendations were followed.
For Scofield, there is no way I would recommend kokes (too shallow and not enough food). I would recommend adding tiger musky, sterile smallmouth, browns and stocking larger cutts, tigers and bows (even if that means that way less trout if quantity are stocked). It seems like thousands of musky can be planted every year for the first several years and then slowly taper the plantings off once the chub problem is in check. I would much rather have this happen then see Scofield drained and have to wait 4 years for the fish to get large enough to be worth the fishing.
But just my thoughts. I love fishing Scofield now but can see things getting out of control if some additional actions aren't taken quickly.
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Re: [Jacksonman] Scofield 5/19 and gill net - Kent - 05-21-2011
I saw my first kokanee as a teenager in Scofield. That was many moons ago, and I can still remember how interesting it was to see orange/reddish looking fish swimming around the banks in the fall. I have no idea how well they did; however, they lived a few years in order to change to spawning colors.
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