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Food For Thought - flygoddess - 12-03-2012
Sorry, this will be a bit lengthy, but I found this very good reading and wanted to share it.
For those in question of indicator or not
[center]3D Nymphing
The three dimensions of
nymphing must all work
in unison to achieve a
more natural drift.
By Martin Koenig
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[left]The nymph rig can be a complicated mess. It can also be the ticket to catching fish in virtually any condition and is often the only option when other methods of fly fishing don't produce.
Advance techniques, such as European nymphing or Czech nymphing, are gaining popularity. These tight- line presentations emerged from the tournament scene, where competition rules ban strike indicators, but they also have serious limitations. Tight-line tactics suffer at deeper depths and at any distance beyond up close.
Outside the tournament scene, most fly anglers still employ the slack-line presentations combined with some sort of strike indicator. Even still, many anglers lack proficiency with this setup and get frustrated with poor results.
Strike-indicator fishing looks pretty simple, but actually involves managing several interacting influences. Whereas dry fly fishing is mainly two dimensional presentation-distance to the fish and water speed---successful subsurface angling comes down to understanding three additional dimensions: Depth, Weight, and Drag. Accounting for these interrelated variables in your nymph presentation are the key to improving your success rate.
If any of you find this interesting, let me know and I will add the Depth and weight writing that Martin Koenig writes about.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Tought - Jazzperch1 - 12-03-2012
definatly intersted, i like reading up on flyfishing literature.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Tought - cericr - 12-03-2012
Definitely interested. As someone who has only done the 2-D method(dry) I would love to learn how to start perfecting the art of Nymphing. I have read quite a bit about it, but still lack the skill to really do well Nymping. I would love to read more.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Thought - flygoddess - 12-03-2012
[center]DEPTH
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[left]Depth is tricky, since it's influenced by water speed,which changes frequently, differs throughout the water column, and can be hard to judge. But understanding the water depth of your target area is one of the primary factors that will dictate your setup and how to adjust your rig.
Judging depth begins with a guess. You can usually get a decent sense of depth in clear water, which makes possible a visual estimate of an entire run. Knowing the depth of the water and how it might change throughout a specific run will help you quickly get your setup dialed in----but you really just need a close guess. Remember, fish live close to the bottom, and so should your flies.
More important than actually knowing the depth of the water is the diligence to adjust your rig until your flies run deep enough to be near the bottom. Many anglers make the mistake of fishing a leader that is not long enough to reach near the bottom, and they compound that mistake by failing to make adjustments when the water depth changes. Without making adjustments, the presentation will eventually be too shallow and other times too deep. Fishing too shallow means your flies are not in the strike zone, making slim your chances of hooking fish. If you are going to err, err on going too deep. A rig set too deep can cost you some flies when snagging bottom, but is worth the risk, as you'll at least be in the zone where fish are.
When adjusting your rig, set the depth below the indicator, 1 1/2 times the water depth, and plan on adjusting from there. Begin fishing through your intended target zone, and watch your strike indicator closely for any indication that your flies are ticking the bottom. Small, sharp little ticks of the strike indicator are a good sign that your flies are on the bottom. If your flies consistently catch the bottom, shorten up the rig by moving the strike indicator down the leader towards the flies. If your rig never ticks bottom, or never hangs up at all, you are not fishing deep enough. Continue fine-tuning with a combination of length and weight (adding or removing shot) to get the perfect drift. If the river bottom is fairly uniform in shape and depth (such as in large rivers), you may not need to adjust the setup once you find a combination that works. However, habitat in smaller rivers changes often, and you may have to constantly adjust your rig to properly fish each spot.
![[Image: IMG_00871.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/IMG_00871.jpg)
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Tought - Jazzperch1 - 12-03-2012
great info[cool], the last 2 years ive been trying to nymph without an indicator and once you start learning it good it will work wonders and you will think an indicator is 2 easy for ya after that, but there are still times when i do use an indicator still on the weeb. i guess its a matter of personal preference.
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Re: [Jazzperch1] Food For Tought - flygoddess - 12-03-2012
[quote Jazzperch1]great info[cool], the last 2 years ive been trying to nymph without an indicator and once you start learning it good it will work wonders and you will think an indicator is 2 easy for ya after that, but there are still times when i do use an indicator still on the weeb. i guess its a matter of personal preference.[/quote]
Interesting. I see it the opposite. Tight line is way easy (2-D) where indicator is more involved (3 D)
As you say a personal preference and that is why I posted this. Some see an indicator as cheating. Others see it as a necessary aid (me).
Tight lining is an easy way to learn nymphing...indicator not so much so I have to think that is why some don't like them.
Both catch fish. But I agree tight lining has limits.
There is much more to this as in weight and drag. If you all can, the November/December issue of American Angler is some great info.
As for me, I will stick with my Pop Top, Tingamabobbers, and Slip indys...mix in a nice dry fly.
Also remember, 2013 allows THREE flies. So try the Pupa, Nymph, Dry. [
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Tought - SatanLBZ801 - 12-03-2012
Very interesting read indeed. When I first started out nymphing, always heardpeople saying, "Of always use a 9' leader, 9' leader, no bigger, no smaller, yadda yadda yadda." This is definitely not the case when nymphing on any river! Every hole changes, requiring different setups, just like this article Joni posted up states. I agree with Joni. Nymphing with a strike indicator (3D) is the only way in my eyes to nymph up river. Adding in that extra variable just gives that much more control/sensitivity to your fly. It would be extremely have to tight line nymph a hole 20'-30' away on the opposite side of the river, where there is fast water running between you and the hole. That's obviously a hard situation no matter what, but indicator will make it possible to get in the zone by being able to mend the line upstream, using the indicator as your break point. Tight line = Dry flies/Swinging flies/Streamers.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Tought - sinergy - 12-03-2012
Good read, In my opinion Deep water nymphing or bottom bouncing is just another tactic in the arsenal.
When fish aren't feed from the surface is good to be able to switch it up and nymph. To use a baseball analogy Its like the curve ball to a fast ball.
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Re: [SatanLBZ801] Food For Thought - flygoddess - 12-03-2012
Tight line = Dry flies/Swinging flies/Streamers.
Nicely put. It is great for streams and small rivers too.
Some pack a spinning rod with them to broaden their fishing skills, I prefer to try all the different approaches that come with fly fishing
Here is something else in that article that I think some could find helpful.
![[Image: IMG_00891.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/IMG_00891.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_00911.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/IMG_00911.jpg)
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Tought - SatanLBZ801 - 12-03-2012
This brings up another discussion all in itself. Weighted or Unweighted flies? Generally, for me, it'll all depend on what I'm fishing. Rocky bottom = bead (nymph trying to latch onto a rock at the bottom) Sandy bottom/hole = Non weighted fly.
I will always try to use the split shot to get the flies to the bottom, not the flies themselves. The way I see it, I always want my split shot bouncing on the bottom , and each fly I want off the bottom, depending on the length placed between the split shot and the first fly. And then from the first fly to the second fly. Each one should be rising from the other in the water column.
Curious of what others have for input on this and their ways of doing things.
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Re: [SatanLBZ801] Food For Tought - sinergy - 12-03-2012
I like the split shot too as you can adjust the weight higher and lower deepening on the depth of the water your fishing.
My only quarry with split shots is the hangups & snags I wonder if the putty works any better...
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Re: [sinergy] Food For Tought - richyd4u - 12-03-2012
Flygoddess,
Very good read, thankyou. I have always been a "bobber" nympher, since that is what my Dad the "dry fly" purist calls strike indicators, lol. My Dad is so against nymphing that my Brother and I can't even get him to switch when we are pulling in one fish after another...I guess its not in his comfort level\, but I would sure like to see him catch more fish.
When deep nymphing I rely on my indicator to give me the indications of what is going on down there...guess I'm not good enough for that straight-lining stuff. Plus...there is no better visual, in my opinion, than a strike indicator zipping underwater! Love that!
-Rich
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Re: [sinergy] Food For Tought - riverdog - 12-03-2012
The putty is crap from my experience- don't bother.
I like weighted flies. Can get the fly down deeper in quicker water with tungsted or lighten up the weight of the fly if dragging the bottom more than wanted. I still have shot if needed on top of that occasionally for deeper holes. However I think I get a better drift that entices more strikes in moving water with weighted flies.
There are other things than the weight of your fly, shot or line that can influence where your nymph is in the water column. Selecting where to cast into a run and how loose or taunt to keep the line through various parts of the run can help dial into the desire depth. If you aren't doing this tight lining your fishing 2-dimensions and really missing out on a big advantage of this over fishing with a rig. It's the ability to fish 3-D without have to constantly change around your rig that sets tight lining apart from using a rig. Not so important on bigger waters common out of state or if fishing a limited area between others on the middle Provo. But if you have room to cover and presenting your fly to many more fish in the same time tight lining can be deadly. You'd have to adjust a rig hundreds of times an hour to cover the water column in a comparable way to what I do tight lining with little or no adjustment. And then you'd have your fly out of the water much more of the time not catching fish. Don't confuse the limitations of using heavy Czech nymphs 2 D presentation to what can be done with others form of tight lining.
Tight lining isn't just feel vs vision with an indicator. You should be using both your sense of touch and vision in both types of fishing.
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Re: [sinergy] Food For Thought - flygoddess - 12-04-2012
The good thing about this post is you are going to hear both sides of the coin so to speak[
] I use the sink putty all the time. I keep it in a pant pocket in the colder months. I prefer it because you can stretch it out but keep a smaller size, and a lot easier to remove.
I also Tight-line and indicator. Small streams like Uinta, Millcreek the Cottomwoods, I would tight-line for sure.
Provo, Weber, Rock Creek, Strawberry River, (plus many in Idaho) I will use both but I am a sucker for Indys as I can Cast to other side. Size of indy changes on skinny water is all. I have even used those Uni Bobbers as an Indy.
Generally the river I fish, the bottom doesn't change that much...any of them. I find I am adjusting very little.
I do believe in casting short and working my way across a river, but if the middle of that river is blasting...the indy comes out.
Caught my biggest browns watching that indy go down then up stream,
As far as the Dry Fly purist. I get that, but Nymphing was way before dry fly fishing so Old school would say ...try that nymph or that wet fly.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Thought - doggonefishin - 12-04-2012
I've been interested in improving my nymphing technique and was wondering if you could explain the "tight lining" a bit more. Is it a weighted nymph at the end of your leader with no other attachments and you pull in all slack as you go through the drift?
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Re: [doggonefishin] Food For Thought - flygoddess - 12-04-2012
It is keep a tight line all the way through a drift, but I lift the tip of the rod rather then pulling line in.
Great with softhackles. I prefer weighted flies over split shot in tight-line (also called High Sticking or short lining).
And split shot with indicators, but if it is a slow current, again I will just use weighted flies.
I am not crazy about split shot and casting, but I see the need. I prefer sink tips or full sink lines. Easier on the rods...LOL
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Thought - riverdog - 12-04-2012
What putty do you like? I've tried Orvis tungsten sink putting and was really disappointed in the past. Maybe I need to try some other brand. I think Orvis might have revised their sink putty as well and maybe it's worth a retry.
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Re: [riverdog] Food For Thought - flygoddess - 12-04-2012
I have some of the Orvis. It is good, but I picked up some in a black plastic container from Fish Tech. It is sticky, and I love it.
I agree with you on weighted flies totally. And seeing how these guys are all getting together at HFT Sunday, may I offer something I do. I tie several of a proven pattern. Sometimes I add weighted wire, sometimes not. I mark the weighted ones by using red thread for the head of the fly. Can tell at a glance which is weighted.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Thought - riverdog - 12-04-2012
I'll give the putty a retry.
I know the thread started out with nymphing but the other fly type I like to tight line are streamers. Most streamer fishing for trout I fish up and across stream and let come down next to the bank like a lot of other folks. However when in prespawn and spawning mode tight line with streamers is effective with brooks and especially browns. Can be done with cutts and bows but not nearly as effective for me.
It also works well on king salmon and is almost cheating with silver salmon. With silver salmon hooking the fish is only counts 1% as 99% is landing those things after hooked.
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Re: [flygoddess] Food For Thought - TylerKunz - 12-04-2012
This is a great thread and some awesome info! I have often wondered how my depth was affecting my nymphing. I think I need to go deeper. Thanks for the post!
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