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+--- Thread: Bonus Points System for Idaho. (/showthread.php?tid=798977)
Bonus Points System for Idaho. - hooknhunter - 02-14-2013
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I freely admit that I've plagerized all of this, but it is an issue that needs to be addressed. If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry, but I felt it was more important to get this information out than to take the time to forumulate my own text, opinions, and reponse. The thoughts and concepts expressed here match my own so I don't mind copying.
Sent to me via Email, from a friend.
Hey guys....this needs yourimmediate attention to try and prevent a bonus point system for hunt draws herein Idaho. It’s under review currently.
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Thanks to RepresentativeChristy Perry, new legislation was introduced yesterday requiring the IdahoFish and Game Department to implement a bonus point system. HB145 states "The purpose of this legislation is to instruct the Idaho Department of Fish andGame to implement a bonus point system for controlled hunts. The currentstatue, IC 36-104, in essence states the Idaho Department of Fish and Game"may" establish the rules and procedures necessary to create a bonuspoint system. This legislation will simply change the word "may" to"shall.""
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[url "http://legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2013/H0145.htm"][#0000ff]http://legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2013/H0145.htm[/#0000ff][/url]
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Emotions and desires aside,the factual statistics do not show a significant increase in draw odds forthose who get in on the ground floor of hard to draw hunts, but they do make itnearly impossible for someone down the road to get in (new hunters) and have astatistical chance of drawing.
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This legislation in movingrapidly and we as hunters need to contact our State Representatives andSenators immediately to get this stopped.
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Here are the contacts:
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Representative Mike Moyle
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Phone: (b) 286-7842
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E-mail: [url "mailto:mmoyle@house.idaho.gov"][#0000ff]mmoyle@house.idaho.gov[/#0000ff][/url]
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Representative Christy Perry
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E-mail: [url "mailto:cperry@house.idaho.gov"][#0000ff]cperry@house.idaho.gov[/#0000ff][/url]
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RCC Chair LawerenceDenney
E-mail: [url "mailto:ldenney@house.idaho.gov"][#0000ff]ldenney@house.idaho.gov[/#0000ff][/url]
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[font "Calibri"][size 3]RCC Vice Chair MarcGibbs [/size][/font]
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E-mail: [url "mailto:mgibbs@house.idaho.gov"][#0000ff]mgibbs@house.idaho.gov[/#0000ff][/url]
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[font "Calibri"][size 3]Senate Majority Leader BartDavis[/size][/font]
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Phone: (b) 522-8100
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E-mail: [url "mailto:bmdavis@senate.idaho.gov"][#0000ff]bmdavis@senate.idaho.gov[/#0000ff][/url]
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I do not personally condone orsupport a bonus point system in Idaho....my reasoning is not emotional, it isbased on simple statistical facts. Fortunately, the bonus point system that wasproposed in 2010 was shot down due to outcry from sportsmen, and no system wasimplemented. I'm not sure why it is being rammed through again, but thestatistics still do not support it.
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A bonus point system will onlybenefit those who get in on the ground level, and only very slightly at that.The impact will be detrimental to new hunters and new applicants. The only huntsthe bonus point system will benefit, will be the hunts that don't need a bonuspoint system (easy to draw hunts). This information is based on factualstatistics, not emotion or greed.
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The current controlled huntsystem is the most fair for giving an equal chance of drawing to everyone. Astraight bonus point system (increased chance for each year applying) is themost "fair" bonus point system...other renditions of a BP system willbe weighted towards improved odds for long-term applicants, and terriblyreduced odds for new applicants. For hard to draw hunts, the odds only improvefrom 3.0% to 3.19% for someone who applies for 5 years, while the odds for anew applicant 5 years into the system goes from 3.0% to 0.64% (decrease of78.67%). For a weighted bonus point system (Nevada style), it is much worse fornew hunters/applicants. For hard to draw hunts, the odds for someone who hasapplied the first 5 years only increase from 3.0% to 3.26%, while the odds fora new applicant plummet from 3.0% to 0.13% (95.67% decrease).
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Current system
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High demand hunts - 3% chanceof drawing (all applicants)
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Low demand hunts - 29% chanceof drawing (all applicants)
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Straight (non-weighted) BonusPoint system (2 years into system)
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High demand hunts - 1.52%(first-time applicant) & 3.05% (max-point holder)
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Low demand hunts - 16.78%(first-time applicant) & 33.56% (max-point holder)
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Straight (non-weighted) BonusPoint system (5 years into system)
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High demand hunts - 0.64%(first-time applicant) & 3.19% (max-point holder)
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Low demand hunts - 11.35%(first-time applicant) & 68.00% (max-point holder)
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Nevada-style BP system (2 yearsinto system)
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High demand hunts - 0.60%(first-time applicant) & 3.07% (max-point holder)
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Low demand hunts - 7.5%(first-time applicant) & 37.3% (max-point holder)
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Nevada-style BP system (5 yearsinto system)
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High demand hunts - 0.13%(first-time applicant) & 3.26% (max-point holder)
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Low demand hunts - 3.47%(first-time applicant) & 90.0% (max-point holder)
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[font "Calibri"][size 3]I strongly urge you to doeverything within your power to stop this bill from moving forward. Hunting isnot about money and greed. Unfortunately, a bonus point system is a step inthat direction, and will have a negative impact on future generations ofhunters, as well as all but those who are able to apply at the ground level.[/size][/font]
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Re: [hooknhunter] Bonus Points System for Idaho. - TheGrovBone - 02-15-2013
Thank you for posting this! I have been doing the same thing today - I spent 2 hours emailing the representatives - but I need to do more. We HAVE to make sure this doesn't go! Here's an article written by Ryan Hatfield, editor of Elk Hunter and Western Hunter Magazines that was written last time Idaho F&G got such a stupid idea:
Idaho Set to Adopt Bonus Points?
The Gem State could learn from Wyoming’s example and other states’ mistakes
[i]“Hey, Jim, did you hear Idaho is going to bonus points? You better hurry up and get in on the ground floor. Before you know it, point creep will have those max points up over 20, like it’s getting in Arizona, Utah, and Colorado. I’m calling all my friends to let them know.”
“Yeah, I heard about that. You don’t want to get behind, that’s for sure. I’ve also
decided to put my wife and all my kids in, too. They haven’t applied before – hell,
Billy and Annie don’t even hunt yet - but they may want to someday. Can’t take
that chance, ya know. Once you’re behind, you’re pretty much out of it. “I’m also going to put my 70-year-old mother in, even though she doesn’t hunt, because ten years down the line, I can put in with her after I’ve already drawn the
previous year. Then I can just steal half her points when they average them. She’ll
have to eat the tag that could have gone to a hunter who was really hoping to draw, of course, but at least I’ll get another hunt five years sooner! It’s all in knowing how to play the game. A guy’s gotta do what a
guy’s gotta do.”
“Yeah, I know it. We generally only put in every once in awhile depending on the
year and our finances, but that’s gonna change now. There’s no way you can afford to miss a year now.”
Heads or tails. Flip that coin. We’ve all taken math class and heard the question.“ If you flipped a coin 50 times and it came up heads 40 times, what are the odds it will come up heads on the next flip?” Well, we all know it’s 50/50 even though our instinct might be to say it’s 80/20. With Idaho’s drawing odds, hunters need to separate perception from reality, forget the past, and understand simple odds.
Most people who apply in Idaho have the perception that they never draw anything. True, some do really seem to have that bad of luck, but the truth is that those permits are generally hard to draw and their odds are just a reflection of that. The reality, however, is that past draw success means absolutely nothing about odds of drawing the next year. It’s just a function of simple math.
Idaho currently still has some of the best odds of drawing a permit of any sort,
particularly for residents. If and when a point system is put in, that will change.
Right now, there are many decent elk permits that can be drawn with 1 in 3 to 1
in 10 odds. Same for deer. Come to think of it, same for some sheep, moose, and
goat permits.
The problem with committing to a bonus points system is that it goes and
commits other people to it, too. People who are lackadaisical about applying will
suddenly become obligated and motivated to keep putting in. People who had only put in for themselves will suddenly begin putting in family members (some
of whom will hunt and some of whom won’t.) Drawing odds across the state
will get considerably worse for everyone – especially guys like you and me who
already put in and legitimately want that tag. A permit that has 1 in 10 odds now
could skyrocket to easily double that amount, or worse.
“Well, I don’t care. At least this way, I’ll draw a permit, unlike the last ten years.” Yep. You will. Unfortunately, you’ll draw it half as often (on average) as you would have before.
Of all the Western states, Wyoming probably has the best system. Residents have no points. Those who are serious about hunting and really want the permits generally put in, and over time will draw those permits. However, nonresidents DO have points, and when you think about it, it makes sense. Nonresidents will generally have a significant amount of time and money wrapped up into a trip once that tag is drawn, and those people generally will be legitimate hunters who would already have put in. Lack of proximity and simplicity keep down the numbers of nonresidents who would apply that aren’t serious about drawing a tag. It’s the best of both worlds. Residents don’t have to worry about applicant numbers jumping through the roof, and nonresidents can sit and gather points toward that once every - few-years trip they look forward to. It also gives nonresidents the feeling that they at least “got something” for having to buy that darn license in order to apply; they don’t leave feeling empty-handed.
The fact is that these points systems are eventually going to backfire in some states. Point creep keeps pushing those numbers higher and higher, to the point that many tags formerly reasonable to draw are now becoming de facto once-in a- lifetime permits. This simply would not be happening if there wasn’t an incentive to keep the average casual hunter applying.
A few months ago, the Idaho legislature passed a bill allowing bonus points to be
implemented. Let’s make it clear; this does not mean that it will happen. It simply has allowed it to be implemented if and when the Commissioners and general public decide they want it to be implemented. For those who currently put in and want to keep drawing odds as reasonable as they currently are, let’s all hope that it never goes any further than that.[/i]
As hunters - we need to do EVERYTHING in our power to stop this. Activism is the only solution to this problem - and we need to act now!
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Re: [TheGrovBone] Bonus Points System for Idaho. - hulapopper - 02-15-2013
i responded to the reps. as well. get so sick of the nr's whineing...........they CAN use there liscence to hunt over the counter hunts. if they choose to suck thier thumbs and pout because they didn't draw a 40 or 45 buck tag so be it............[mad]
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Re: [hooknhunter] Bonus Points System for Idaho. - elkmagnet - 02-19-2013
A bonus point system is pure selfishness. It takes opportunity away from newcomers (children) and rewards the diehard (me) that's the last thing we need. Every kid on his or her first application should have the same chance as I do or better I have taken my share. In 13years I will have 13pts and a first year child hunter will have very little chance at the same tag. Point creep will blow your mind. Do the math on some states A child that is born in ten years and first applies 26 or so years from now has no chance. If you don't know what point creep is do some research before endorsing a point system.
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Re: [elkmagnet] Bonus Points System for Idaho. - jigs - 03-08-2013
In the end I think if the f&g can make money off it I think thats the direction they will go. I hate the thought of having to buy points just to keep up....
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