First Fish Cat float tube - Printable Version +- Fishing Forum (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum) +-- Forum: Float Tube Fishing (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=396) +--- Forum: Float Tubing General (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=81) +--- Thread: First Fish Cat float tube (/showthread.php?tid=876012)

First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-14-2014 Hello, new member here, first post. This is my first "v" tube. Is that a correct term for the Fish cat? So, I find a extreme deal on a used Fish Cat. It is in very good shape. Older model, no fabric fading or stains. In fact, very few rub marks on the pvc bottom!There are two foam seat blocks, measuring width 17 3/4" x 19 3/8" in length. The seat area the foam slides into measures 19" across, measured from where the seat material is stitched to the bladder pocket on each side (stitch seam to stitch seam of the seat box). With the fish cat deflated, and seat foam installed in the 17 3/4" width, the seat foam slides into the seat box with no effort, due to the 1 1/4" gap between seat box dimension and foam width. Even with the boat fully inflated (thumb pressure allows 1/2" of depression at the middle of each pontoon bladder, per the Aire website) neither foam block is wedged in tightly, still sloppy by 3/8" on each side of the seat foam. Will slop from side to side, and will slide out of the seat pocket if the seat back straps were not attached. When installing the seat foam's19 3/8" width into the seat box. Now the foam must be hammer fist punched into place. Just like shown in the (Aire Youtube) Fish Cat seat foam installation video. But then, the seat foam seam is pointing the wrong direction. I don't understand why the 17 3/4" width fits very tightly when installed in the video. Yet, mine is so sloppy, unless the dementions of my seat foam are incorrect for a "older" fish cat (2003 model). I confirmed my seat foam was the correct size (with aire). But that is for the current model, and I have no idea if the seat dimensions have changed during the past 11 years. My seat foam is likely not correct for my boat. What to use to widen the seat foam to fit tightly in the 17 3/4" width? Also, I have searched all criteria on this site, regarding seat sag or the "taco" effect. I am looking for those that have made mods to the seat foam to eliminate the "taco" of the seat. And to install the foam in the correct orientation, but take up the 1 1/4" of width. As it is, the bladders want to suck in when sitting in the seat, until the 3/4" gap (3/8" each side x 2) is gone. Then the seat taco's to further complicate the inward compression of the pontoon air bladders. I have not sat in the boat in water, only on land. Does this make a big difference when determining seat "taco". That occurs during fishing? Does the foam seat and air bladder seat taco the same?? [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - TubeDude - 04-14-2014 [#0000FF]Welcome aboard. Hope you are able to get your new toy put together right an get out fishing. I am attaching two pics...right way and wrong way...for the seat pieces to be installed. It helps if you have the air chambers partially inflated...for stability...but not enough to put too much pressure on the foam as you are trying to install it. Another thing that will help is to wet the inside of the pocket...and the foam...to lubricate it a little. Once you get the inside edges going...and stretch the pocket a little...it WILL go together the right way. You shouldn't experience a lot of sag...taco effect. But if you need extra support you can slip a piece of plexiglass or even plain old plywood on the underside of the foam seat for extra rigidity. There is a possibility that they have changed the dimensions slightly since your 2003 model. The only other suggestion I can make is to try to find a good price on one of the inflated bottom seat cushions. They will expand to fit the dimensions. [/#0000FF] [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - idahoron - 04-15-2014 I don't get a taco effect with mine. Install them like TD said and you will like it. I love mine. The FC4 is a awesome tube, mine is a sportsmans boat but it is the FC4. I floated down the snake river in mine several times. The longest was a 7 mile float. Ron [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-15-2014 Thanks for attaching those photo's tubedude. I came across those very pictures, as well as one of a Outcast air bladder seat and seat back. As well as a H3? seat bladder and seat back bladder. While searching the site for any help I could find before posting the problem I am having. Seeing your pictures, and the Outcast youtube video showing the correct seat foam orientation and tight fit. Here is the deal. The seat foam will only go in tightly, if placed in the "wrong" orientation. As mentioned, there is not need for lubrication when installing in the "correct" orientation. The seat foam will literally fall in and out. I have located boogie board that is consistently 1" thick throughout the length and width. My thought is to cut a piece 1" thick x 4 3/8" wide x 19 3/8" long. Sandwich the seat foam between one boogie board shim piece on each side. My thought is, the boogie board is closed cell foam, and about the same compression rate, and the thickness should allow for 3/4" of pontoon bladder compression, as they fill and press against the boogie board foam. The 3/4" of extra width comes from: 17 3/4" seat foam width + two 1" boogie board shims = 19 3/4" inside the 19" seat pocket. For the seat "taco" I considered a plastic cutting board, plexiglass, or plywood. The cutting board, and plywood are easily accessible. First the cutting board. Picking the largest one at the store ( 1/2" thick x 14"W x 20"L). Placing the center, width wise across a sharp object, and pressing down. Takes very little effort to deflect the ends several inches. Plastic cutting board is out. Assuming plexiglass would act similarly, and not being readily available, I have not followed through with that. Next I took a 1/2" x 19" x 20" piece of plywood. I set each edge so it overlapped a chair on each side be 3/4" or less. Nothing but air space under the ply. Sitting down carefully, with a yard stick in one hand. I first measured the suspended ply before loading with body weight. Then after sitting on the ply. 3/4 of deflection in one direction, and 3/8" inches if turned 90 degrees. I new plywood was stronger if spanned width wise over roof or floor joist, than if spanned length wise. But when a small piece is cut from a whole sheet. There is no way to tell width from length. By sitting on the ply, then turning 90 degree, revealed the direction that was strongest, and the width of the sheet of ply it was cut from. I was hoping a fish cat owner of a older model would chime in with there seat foam width and length measurements. Is the 'taco effect different if sitting in the seat on land vs on water? [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - pontoonman - 04-15-2014 Hi, MB: Hope my comments in your message below are of some help. Pon [quote MotoBoat]Thanks for attaching those photo's tubedude. I came across those very pictures, as well as one of a Outcast air bladder seat and seat back. As well as a H3? seat bladder and seat back bladder. While searching the site for any help I could find before posting the problem I am having. Seeing your pictures, and the Outcast youtube video showing the correct seat foam orientation and tight fit. Here is the deal. The seat foam will only go in tightly, if placed in the "wrong" orientation. As mentioned, there is not need for lubrication when installing in the "correct" orientation. The seat foam will literally fall in and out. PON: That seems too loose, for whatever reason. You will need to take up some space, maybe with shims is the easiest way. I have located boogie board that is consistently 1" thick throughout the length and width. My thought is to cut a piece 1" thick x 4 3/8" wide x 19 3/8" long. Sandwich the seat foam between one boogie board shim piece on each side. My thought is, the boogie board is closed cell foam, and about the same compression rate, and the thickness should allow for 3/4" of pontoon bladder compression, as they fill and press against the boogie board foam. The 3/4" of extra width comes from: 17 3/4" seat foam width + two 1" boogie board shims = 19 3/4" inside the 19" seat pocket. PON: Should work, unless the boogie board is rigid foam with no give maybe will crack? For the seat "taco" I considered a plastic cutting board, plexiglass, or plywood. The cutting board, and plywood are easily accessible. First the cutting board. Picking the largest one at the store ( 1/2" thick x 14"W x 20"L). Placing the center, width wise across a sharp object, and pressing down. Takes very little effort to deflect the ends several inches. Plastic cutting board is out. Assuming plexiglass would act similarly, and not being readily available, I have not followed through with that. Next I took a 1/2" x 19" x 20" piece of plywood. I set each edge so it overlapped a chair on each side be 3/4" or less. Nothing but air space under the ply. Sitting down carefully, with a yard stick in one hand. I first measured the suspended ply before loading with body weight. Then after sitting on the ply. 3/4 of deflection in one direction, and 3/8" inches if turned 90 degrees. I new plywood was stronger if spanned width wise over roof or floor joist, than if spanned length wise. But when a small piece is cut from a whole sheet. There is no way to tell width from length. By sitting on the ply, then turning 90 degree, revealed the direction that was strongest, and the width of the sheet of ply it was cut from. PON: Plywood is not the best thing, it swells when wet and takes a long time to dry out. The surface will become rough with some possible splinters from going through the wet/dry cycles unless sealer applied. Also the glue will slowly dissolve over a long period of time unless it is sealed periodically. Marine ply will hold up longer, but I would go with cutting board or boogie, or a plastic patio chair with the legs cut off and placed on top a la TD,(comfort wise). I was hoping a fish cat owner of a older model would chime in with there seat foam width and length measurements. Is the 'taco effect different if sitting in the seat on land vs on water? PON: YES, when you sit in water the foam will push up along the entire length of the support board, so the entire board surface has an upward force. You are testing in air, where most of the force is only at the CENTER of the board, so it deflects. [/quote] [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - TubeDude - 04-15-2014 Is the 'taco effect different if sitting in the seat on land vs on water? [#0000FF]I don't know the exact physics equation that measures how much support and displacement you get while on the water...as opposed to setting up out of the water. But that is a factor and can be a big one. Sounds like you are creative and have some options to try. Let us know if you are able to work out a satisfactory solution. I don't know anyone who has a Fish Cat that old so it well could have some different dimensions. [/#0000FF] [signature] Re: [TubeDude] First Fish Cat float tube - pontoonman - 04-15-2014 I guess it depends on if you place the stiffening board on top where you get full upward floatation push for the whole board surface- no "taco" effect. If board is placed below the foam, there wouldn't be much upward force and you might get some depression in the middle. It sounds like the compartment for the bottom seat is just too big and loose. One thing that I used to tighten up on my ODC was shims cut from an old 1.5" closed cell pool float. The pool float material has just enough compressibility to make the whole thing snug, and thus can be worked in slowly after the main foam is put in. Pieces can also be glued on the ends of the existing foam with aquaseal, once the proper tension is found. You might need only a one end shim or two, depending on the looseness. Anyway, just another idea. Pon [quote TubeDude]Is the 'taco effect different if sitting in the seat on land vs on water? [#0000ff]I don't know the exact physics equation that measures how much support and displacement you get while on the water...as opposed to setting up out of the water. But that is a factor and can be a big one. Sounds like you are creative and have some options to try. Let us know if you are able to work out a satisfactory solution. I don't know anyone who has a Fish Cat that old so it well could have some different dimensions. [/#0000ff][/quote] [signature] Re: [pontoonman] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-15-2014 PON: Plywood is not the best thing, it swells when wet and takes a long time to dry out. The surface will become rough with some possible splinters from going through the wet/dry cycles unless sealer applied. Also the glue will slowly dissolve over a long period of time unless it is sealed periodically. Marine ply will hold up longer, but I would go with cutting board or boogie, or a plastic patio chair with the legs cut off and placed on top a la TD,(comfort wise). MB: Those were my very concerns when considering plywood. My thoughts were aggressive sanding of top and bottom surfaces. As well as, rounding all edge and corner surfaces. Then, a sealer would be used. But what type? A wood deck penetrating stain, a wax......or? Water base, or oil? Would the stain negatively effect the tube material? PON: YES, when you sit in water the foam will push up along the entire length of the support board, so the entire board surface has an upward force. You are testing in air, where most of the force is only at the CENTER of the board, so it deflects. MB: I cut two shim pieces from the boogie board. Some little kid, somewhere in the world, is not happy about that. I wanted to test for closed cell properties. It squish's, and pops back to original thickness, not hard or rigid, and very similar to the squish resistance of the seat foam. But how? I then recall reading a post by Flygoddess. Stating her seat foam would water log (outcast tube?). I have read across the net, where others have had similar issues. Then, read tubedude's technical explanation regarding closes cell foam. How it is physically impossible to absorb water. A light turned on! I placed a small puddle of water on a cut edge of the boogie board, while holding it. Just enough where the water tension held the puddle into a condensed, round shape. After a couple of minutes, it was apparent the water was not absorbing. So, did the same to the 4 3/8" width of the Outcast seat foam. Same thing, no absorption. But how did Flygoddess and others experience water penetrating the closed foam float tube seat? Hmmmm, same test only this time the foam was compressed with finger/hand pressure, and released. First the boogie board: A mild squeeze of perhaps a 1/4" of the 1" width, and released. More than half the puddle disappeared! What? A second compression and release, the water was gone! I tipped the foam upside down, to allow any water remaining on the surface to drip off. Shook a couple of times to make sure. Now, with the foam upright, compress the foam to see if water was inside the foam. Sure enough water came running out upon compression. NO WAY! Release, turn upside down, squeeze and water came running out. Not dripping, running out! Do I have closed cell foam in the boogie board, or not? Same test with the seat foam. After all, the finger compression would closely simulate what the posterior would do. While fin kicking, boat rocking, and general moving about on the seat, including getting in and out. The seat foam took in water too!. Just as quickly, and retained the water when upside down. Keep in mind, I did not say "absorb". My thinking is, there is air in and around the closed cells, allowing for compression. Once compressed outside of water, air fill's the void once the compression is released. In water, that void fills with water! Since the foam retains it's original shape, there must be something similar to vacuum, allowing the foam to hold or retain some of the water inside. I have read where others have stated, there seat foam takes forever to dry out. In conclusion, I feel I have closed cell foam in the boogie board. But, since it could, and likely would take in water and is a small enough to vacuum pack. Should I do so? I can not do that to the seat foam ( to large), but can easily do the boogie board shim pieces. Oh, boogie board shim pieces are installed along side the seat foam, inside the seat box. Was not difficult to install, even though the overall width was 19 3/4" going inside a 19" seat pocket. Fill's the seat nicely, and the inside pontoon measurement is 19" when fully filled. [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - flygoddess - 04-15-2014 Maybe if you tell these folk about how you said the foam DOES fit nice and tight (pound with fist) when you try to put it in, in the opposite direction. At least that is what I read on the other forum. They do have aftermarket foam for these boats. Call Outcast. Shimming just doesn't sound like an answer to me. Getting a chunk of foam the SIZE you need makes more sense. If you have a seal a meal that will do something that size, that would be even better. [signature] Re: [flygoddess] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-15-2014 Flygoddess, I did mention that, in this forum post .............twice! My first post states: "When installing the seat foam's 19 3/8" width into the seat box. The foam must be hammer fist punched into place. Just like shown in the (Aire Youtube) Fish Cat seat foam installation video. But then, the seat foam seam is pointing the wrong direction. I don't understand why the 17 3/4" width fits very tightly when installed in the video". My 4th comment in this post states: "Here is the deal. The seat foam will only go in tightly, if placed in the "wrong" orientation (19 3/4"w). As mentioned, there is no need for lubrication when installing in the "correct" orientation. The seat foam will literally fall in and out". In the 2nd comment: Tubedude provided pictures, referencing the "right" and "wrong" seat seam orientation. To clarify the correct seat foam installation. I did contact Outcast, the foam they offer has the identical width and length orientation as the foam I have now. So, my seat box width must be different (wider) than newer models. A member on another website mentioned his older fish cat had seat foam measuring 19" square. That reaffirms my suspicion that my seat box is not a standard size anymore. What that leaves is: A) Adding width to my foam for a tight correct seat foam installation. B) Purchase the correct size seat foam (from who)? C) Install the seat foam in the incorrect orientation because it fits tightly. Even though, the foam fits tightly in the incorrect orientation (19 3/4"), a new set of issues surfaces: A) The seat seam is not designed to go in that direction. (All it does is further encourage the "taco" effect. The seat breaks at the seam, pulling the pontoons inward). Although plywood or plastic would counter this. (see B) And B) The length would be 1 1/4" to short. Causing the seat back to slip off of and down behind the seat foam. The seat would now require a shim in front, or in back of the seat foam. By placing the seam in the correct orientation, the seam is encouraged to bend or taco from side to side. Creating a low spot in the seat (a "v" shape), and resisting your bum from sliding forward, since it would have to slide uphill. Given the shim choices of: 1 (1 1/4") shim with the seat blocks in the incorrect seam orientation (19 3/8") or 2 shim's with the 17 3/4" (correct) width option. I am leaning toward the 2 shim, correct seam orientation. In hopes that when I do get the tube on the water, the plywood or other material is not needed under the seat. If your speaking of another website. I have posted for comment, on other sites as well. The more thinking caps the better []. Thanks for your comment. Can you comment with the thickness of Plexiglass you husband used to support the seat of the Fish Cat or Fat Cat? [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - flygoddess - 04-15-2014 He used 1/2" thick plexiglass with corners rounded off. One more question and please forgive me but I have to ask. Have you tried it in the "wrong" placement? I just see it as being too thick that when sat on, it couldn't hinge or taco. I had a very old SFC with mesh in the back, I was able to do this. Specially if you use the Plexiglass. So it is a couple inches short front to rear. Doesn't seem that would be an issue. It would beat having to shim. Sorry if it seems I am beating a dead horse. Hang in there. [signature] Re: [flygoddess] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-17-2014 Flygoddess, I have heard others mention having a older fish cat with the mesh front. I have the solid, heavy black material, that is the same material as on the pontoon bottoms. Yes, I did try the seat foam in the 19 3/8" width. By loosing 1 1/4" of length, the seat back would pop over the seat foam and slide down behind it. Making the seat 4 3/8" lower than if on top of the seat foam. I had a piece of foam from a memory bed to take up the lost space. But it would soak up water! I had planned on vacuum packing the memory foam. When I came across the idea of using a boogie board. Found that at the same second hand store for $0.50. Kinda lucking out, since if you go looking for something specific at a second hand store rarely will that be found. I came across a 15" wide x 20" long x 1/2" thick, white cutting board today. Found it at a second hand store for $0.75. Bought that as another option to the plywood. I have a feeling the cutting board would have about the same support as the same thickness of plexiglass. I sat on the cutting board today, it sagged 3/4"-1". The cutting board sags twice as much as a 3/8" sheet of ply. But would never become water logged. One note of interest is the plywood weight is 3lbs, while the cutting board is 5lbs. The plywood is 19" x 20" compared to 15" x 20" for the cutting board. The cutting board is 4" to small in width, but this is the largest cutting board one could buy if purchased off the shelf from a retail store in my area. Did the 1/2" thick plexiglass solve the seat sag issue for your husbund. What did he or does he weight? This is encouraging news. Did the plexiglass size match the foam seat size? I will call a glass place tomorrow to see what a piece of plexiglass would cost. Plexiglass is something I have not seen at my favorite second hand store. [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - flygoddess - 04-17-2014 Husband probably weighed around 200 back then. 6'4". He had the plexiglass cut to the size he needed. I think Home Depot carries this and can cut it too. [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - TubeDude - 04-17-2014 [#0000ff]After reading your comments it occurs to me that a lot of your concerns are more "what if?" than actual on the water observations. But, they are valid. I will offer that throughout my long tubing career I have fished from a wide variety of tubes...from the old donut dinghies to our more modern V tubes, pontubes, mini toons, etc. Because I am a big guy...with back problems...comfortable seating has always been a big issue with me. Sadly, even the "high end" manufacturers do not make seats that are universally adjustable to make everybody comfortable. In fact, owning an H3 from Scadden was the stimulation to experiment with several seat "inserts" to enable me to fish comfortably for more than a couple of hours without sliding forward out of my seat or developing back spasms. I am attaching pics of some of the seats I have employed successfully over the years and still use. You are dled with a situation of having improper sizing on the foam inserts for the bottom seat. My suggestion is to forgo the heavy and expensive plexiglass insert in the bottom pocket. Using some kind of platform or seat on top with accomplish the same thing...only better. It will evenly distribute your weight across the seat and eliminate the "taco". Even a stadium seat would work. But a contour plastic stack chair...with metal stand removed...is even better. It would also provide more rigid back support. The foam back rest gets a lot of strain and over time tends to fatigue. That is where I have added some 1/4" plexiglass for added rigidity. If you have additional height and strength in your back rest (from a seat insert) you will appreciate it during a long day on the water, and especially if you have to lean back and kick hard against the wind going back to your vehicle. You gotta have something to push against. Inside the seats you can shim up the front end of the foam seat pocket using measured and cut pieces of foam wallboard or other pieces of styrofoam. They are inexpensive, light, easily trimmed and do not absorb water. That is what I had to do on my H3 to build up the front enough so I didn't slide out. Bad design. That will keep the bottom pieces long enough to properly fit the backrest. The key after that will be adjusting the position of the backrest, whether you fish with or without a seat insert. EDIT: Just added a pic of the styro wall board I use for seat shimming. [/#0000ff] [signature] Re: [TubeDude] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-17-2014 Very interesting, There is a serious amount of time consuming alterations in your pictures. This is exactly what I am looking for. Modifications that worked! And yes, you caught the paragraph I wrote a couple responses ago, it read: "I am leaning toward the 2 shim, correct seam orientation. In hopes that when I do get the tube on the water, the plywood or other material is not needed under the seat". I cannot tell how the various plastic seats are bungee tied or fixed in some other fashion? Are all pictures of foam seat blocks in the seat pocket, under the various plastic seat options? It seems, a flat, rigid sheet of (plastic cutting board, or waterproofed plywood would be needed on top of the seat foam and placed inside the seat pocket together. Then, the plastic seat bottom, placed on top of the seat pocket material. Could not distort the top side of the seat foam blocks? Some if not most plastic, outdoor chairs have a network/maze of thin walled, vertical support. That would dig into the seat foam. Or, is it best to remove that underside support at the same time as the legs? I just went out and looked at the underside of three different plastic chairs. It is best to use the underside framework, as part of the rigid, anti "taco" plan? Your email arrived, just after hanging up the phone with Homer-d-poe. The thickest piece of plexiglass they carry is 1/4", and the smallest piece I could buy is 24" x 36". Costing $50. I would need to double the 1/4" thickness. Plus, the cutting board is a close enough option to the structural properties, weight, and waterproof as plexiglass. At a significant savings. I agree, with the addition of the outdoor seat options, the plexiglass is out. I am crunching the newly shared outdoor seat mod, in my mind. At the same time, I am in the process of converting carry straps, found on soft sided travel bags. To shoulder straps, to be used on a waist mounted, fly line stripping basket. This, after making "v" float tube hiking straps, from carry straps found on a golf bag. They are very padded to begin with! Thanks tubedude, and flygoddess. I am one step closer by eliminating one option, and gaining another. [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - fish_or_die - 04-17-2014 Get your plexi or acryllic at Regional Plastic Supply at 3300 S, it'll cost you a quarter of that and they'll have whatever thickness you need, if it exists. Used to go there all the time for architectural model materials [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - TubeDude - 04-17-2014 [quote MotoBoat]Very interesting, There is a serious amount of time consuming alterations in your pictures. This is exactly what I am looking for. Modifications that worked! And yes, you caught the paragraph I wrote a couple responses ago, it read: "I am leaning toward the 2 shim, correct seam orientation. In hopes that when I do get the tube on the water, the plywood or other material is not needed under the seat". I cannot tell how the various plastic seats are bungee tied or fixed in some other fashion? [#0000FF]I used to carefully bungee the seat to the backrest on the tube. Now I just drop it in position as I am ready to launch and it seems to locate its best position once you are afloat. That being said, It may take some adjustments on the backrest strap to get it to hold your seat insert at the desired angle. Leaning too far back all day can be a bad thing. Comfy at first but tiring by day's end.[/#0000FF] Are all pictures of foam seat blocks in the seat pocket, under the various plastic seat options? [#0000FF]Some are with inflatable seats. Most are with foam blocks. The only ones I had to use shims on were the inflated seats on the red H3.[/#0000FF] It seems, a flat, rigid sheet of (plastic cutting board, or waterproofed plywood would be needed on top of the seat foam and placed inside the seat pocket together. Then, the plastic seat bottom, placed on top of the seat pocket material. Could not distort the top side of the seat foam blocks? [#0000FF]The combination of water supporting the foam from underneath, and the even disbursement of body weight by the seat insert almost makes the addition of a rigid sheet of plexiglass or wood unnecessary. But that is something you can only determine after you get it on the water and try it both ways.[/#0000FF] Some if not most plastic, outdoor chairs have a network/maze of thin walled, vertical support. That would dig into the seat foam. Or, is it best to remove that underside support at the same time as the legs? I just went out and looked at the underside of three different plastic chairs. It is best to use the underside framework, as part of the rigid, anti "taco" plan? [#0000FF]Indeed, every type of lawn chair has a different underseat configuration. I am attaching two pictures. One shows the plastic vanes cut and ground down to the seat bottom. The other shows the vanes left in place, but ground to the same basic level. On both you will notice I have left the front edge slightly longer to contribute to a little backward tilt. Helps keep you in the dle.[/#0000FF] Your email arrived, just after hanging up the phone with Homer-d-poe. The thickest piece of plexiglass they carry is 1/4", and the smallest piece I could buy is 24" x 36". Costing $50. I would need to double the 1/4" thickness. Plus, the cutting board is a close enough option to the structural properties, weight, and waterproof as plexyglass. At a significant savings. I agree, with the addition of the outdoor seat options, the plexyglass is out [#0000FF][/#0000FF].[/quote] [#0000FF]One final suggestion. Measure the exact inside diameter of your seat area...and take a tape with you when checking chairs. Most will be just about right but some are too wide and will not work well. Also, it is good to sit in one and do some rock and roll...to make sure the contour will be butt-friendly. We are all built differently and we each have our own ideas about what is comfortable.[/#0000FF] [signature] Re: [TubeDude] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-17-2014 Very cool to see pictures of what a "tinkerer" has accomplished or taken on! I am such a person. Many call it "handy", that fits for a title too. tubedude, do you have the seat width of your most current Fat Cat? And or measurements of past Fat Cat or Fish Cat float tubes? I am curious how much wider my seat is than the seat of a more current model? For a 17 3/4" wide seat foam to fit tightly in the seat box, the seat width should be no more than 17 3/8? As mentioned, the seat surface measurement of mine is 19" exactly. Thus the 19 3/8" seat foam width fit very snug, as it should, not overly so. I have achieved that same snug fit. By using the 17 3/4" width, with one 1" x 4 1/8" x 19 1/2" boogie board shim on each side of the seat foam. [signature] Re: [fish_or_die] First Fish Cat float tube - MotoBoat - 04-17-2014 Thanks for that. I did check out a window shop and plastic retail store. The store you suggested is wholesale only in my area. Still, the Acrylic or Plexiglass, or polyethalene (cutting board) options were 35.00 to 60.00 in 1/2" 20" x 20". The cutting board being the least expensive option, and identical to Starboard. A marine grade product, very similar to white cutting board. Identical in that they are both Polyethalene products. The Starboard is better for marine applications, but neither will degrade in an outdoor environment. Like for example: the colored outdoor plastic chairs, develop a powdery crust on the surface, over time. [signature] Re: [MotoBoat] First Fish Cat float tube - CoyoteSpinner - 04-17-2014 Taco Effect on a Cat. [inline "Taco Kitty.jpg"] Wish you luck with your serious floation and comfort issues.