Help with hackle

[STEVEF39]

I trying to tie some size 20 renegades and im having problems with the front of the hook. I keep trapping the white hackle in the front and crowding the eye too much, not alot of room on a size 20 hook, my first try for a dry fly of this size. How can I keep from trapping the hackle at the eye its really fustrating I dont see how people tie smaller than size 20 dries I guess thats why I never tie them and just buy them [bob]
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[fishned]

Have you down sized your thread?
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[STEVEF39]

I was using UFC 70 it just seems there is not enough room, maybe I just need more practice
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[fishned]

I am one of the worst eye crowders so I might not be the best source of info, but I'm gonna give it a try.

If the proportions seem right, you might be simply using too small of a hook. Trying to tie a size 18 fly on a size 20 hook if that makes sense? Either down size the components proportionally, or up size your hook a click. The only other thing i can think of without seeing you tie would be to only whip finish a couple times with only 3 or 4 wraps each.

And yeah, practice will make you better.
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[flygoddess]

I use UTC70 and tie #32's. Only thing I can think of is stop farther back from the eye. Less wraps. When finishing, I put head cement, or SHHAN, or Zap-A-Gap on the thread, then whip or knot it once.
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[STEVEF39]

About how many wraps should you do with a size 20 fly, I was doing about 4 or 5 and it just seems like the fly is all hackle and not much peacock, Ill see if I can get a picture up tomorrow but I have a hard time with pics of flys maybe I can try my go pro as my camera just doesnt work well.
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[flygoddess]

4 should do it. Are you using small enough hackle is the next question. Really will help with a picture.
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[Lobina_Mosca]

It's probably a matter of the placement and count on the wraps at the head, but you might also consider tying in the white hackle first. Tie the hackle stem at the eye, just as you attach the thread. Then work your way down, do the brown, the peacock and then at the end of the peacock, wrap the white hackle "backwards" towards the peacock, where your thread is waiting. Once you have the hackle at that point, cut through the hackle with your thread (two sharp turns) moving forward and then whip finish after you've tightly trapped the hackle.

Works like a charm and there's very little hackle trappage.
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[STEVEF39]

That's sounds like a really good idea ill give it a try!
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[flygoddess]

I tie in the Furnace hackle, then the rib, then the peacock. I wrap the Peacock then I wrap the Furnace hackle and tie it down with the wire rib. Work up the hook then tie in the white.
Here is a 22, although the hackle is slightly large.


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