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Carp back at Pelican
#1
Carp found again in Pelican Lake - that has got to be a gut punch to DWNR after poisoning it. They planted Tiger Musky to add to the predator base.

See link to news clip

https://www.facebook.com/UtahDWR/videos/...294877687/
Remember: keep the lid on the worms, share your jerky, and stop by to say hi to Cookie and the Cowboy-Pirate crew
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#2
That is extremely unfortunate.
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#3
There has been carp in Pelican lake since I can remember. We would see them swimming by and caught a couple over the years. 

With any luck the perdators will get established and keep ahead of the carp.

One of the factors that had so many carp in there was that the irigation company had to fix the dam on Bullok so they had to drain it. Instead of lettting that water run down into the Green River they had the bright idea of putting into Pelican so it was flooded with a population of adult fish that sarted taking over.
Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
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#4
(05-11-2020, 01:54 AM)a_bow_nut Wrote: There has been carp in Pelican lake since I can remember. We would see them swimming by and caught a couple over the years. 

With any luck the perdators will get established and keep ahead of the carp.

One of the factors that had so many carp in there was that the irigation company had to fix the dam on Bullok so they had to drain it. Instead of lettting that water run down into the Green River they had the bright idea of putting into Pelican so it was flooded with a population of adult fish that sarted taking over.

They poisoned Pelican to get rid of the carp and closed it to fishing.  And now they are back after the effort, which is bad for everyone.
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#5
Pelican is not closed to fishing.

Right out of the proclamation.

Pelican Lake, Uintah County • Closed to the possession of bluegill and green sunfish. All bluegill and green sunfish must be immediately released. This change will remain in effect until Dec. 31, 2020.

You just can't keep and pan fish for this year.
Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
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#6
That hurts. So Sad.
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#7
(05-10-2020, 08:20 PM)Cowboypirate Wrote: Carp found again in Pelican Lake - that has got to be a gut punch to DWNR after poisoning it. They planted Tiger Musky to add to the predator base.

See link to news clip

https://www.facebook.com/UtahDWR/videos/...294877687/
Doesnt surprise me a bit, another great job by our biologists.
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#8
a_bow_nut pid= Wrote:Pelican is not closed to fishing.

Right out of the proclamation.

Pelican Lake, Uintah County • Closed to the possession of bluegill and green sunfish. All bluegill and green sunfish must be immediately released. This change will remain in effect until Dec. 31, 2020.

You just can't keep and pan fish for this year.

I didn't say it IS closed. I said it WAS closed during rotenone treatment and for a while after, which is true. 

I'm not sure what you meant by there have been carp in Pelican forever. Especially in reference to having poisoned the lake with the explicit intent of removing them.
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#9
I caught my first carp there in the late nineties and in 04 my bride to be caught one too. So they have been in there a lot longer than what the DWR has been talking the carp problems.

When there was either hundreds or possibly thousands of adult carp that showed up all at once there wasn't any way for the predators to stay of that many carp.

If you watch the video that was in the link the Cowboy Pirate posted and see how that bass was cleaning the tiger musky fry that they planted then you can understand how millions of bass and bluegill could stay ahead of a the carp population if it is small enough.

Also when they treat a body of water they try to achieve a total kill of the unwanted species but it rarely is attained. The key is to keep them in check so that the game fish thrive. How many think that Strawberry is a complete failure because they didn't eliminate all of the chubs?
Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
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#10
So what you are saying is that you aren't surprised the treatment didn't kill them all. I took your initial statement to imply that you didn't know it had been poisoned.  We just miscommunicated.
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#11
I have volunteered several times in my younger years with chemical (Rotenone) fish kills.  I use to be very in-tune to the methods.

It is so true that a complete fish kill is almost never achieved.  In fact, some species are almost impossible.  For example, bullhead catfish require over two times the amount of poison that kills carp.  Many species, but perch I know for sure, will nose into the springs to avoid the poison.

Carp are actually sensitive to the chemical so, in theory, they kill easy, but, and I do mean BUT, getting the poison to every pocket, niche, spring, creek, inlet, upstream water supply is a logistical impossibility.

Years ago the Pacific Northwest was seriously impacted by "Squawfish", now called Northern Pikeminnow.  Building the dams slowed and warmed the water and the "Pikeminnow" was seriously predacious on Steelhead and Salmon smolts.  A local University developed a toxin specific to that species but environmental fears prevented it from ever going into full scale testing.  This is, in theory, the only way to eliminate a species.  Another invasive species, Walleye and Small Mouth Bass, have done more good than bad in this case, eating more pikeminnow minnows then native smolts preventing the pikeminnow from growing up to eat even more smolts.  They actually pay a bounty to catch and kill the Northern Pikeminnow in some areas.  Note: this is not the Colorado Northern Pikeminnow that is protected in the Colorado River Drainage, but is a realitive.

Carp suffer from a virus that kills mostly just carp.  It seems to just show up and kill huge numbers of them, then it goes away.  I saw it once in Washington State and it had dead carp littering the shores of a couple of bodies of water.  The locals, not knowing what was going on, tried to get the state to stop those bowhunters from shooting carp and leaving the dead fish on the shore.  The Australians are using a version of this virus very effectively to kill the invasive carp on their continent, but like all virus 'weapons', it does not kill all of the intended victims and some collateral damage (other species) also die.

When we wonder why fishing with live minnows is not permitted in so many Western States, think about how easy it is to spread species and how hard it is to kill them.  A lot of good arguments can be made on why we should be able to use live minnows, but this is the elephant in the room when the discussions come up about allowing them.  PS, the knowledgeable anglers are not the problem, it is those that don’t know the difference between a perch and a goldfish or ….. and I suppose we were all that way at one time, at one age.

The fact that carp are back does not shock me, but that fact that they are back in the apparent numbers and sizes does.  Someone screwed up and did not get the upstream source cleaned out, or did not cover the entire lake.  I guess mistakes are made every day (well at least I make mistakes every day).  I think that the Tigers will help, but so would Channel Catfish.  In those waters, which actually get a little warmer in the summer then I believe Tigers prefer.............those darn carp just grow so fast.  Catfish sure have not stopped them in UL.

All I know for sure is that they are back, and the best thing we can do is enjoy the game fish for now, kill every carp we catch there, hope the predators can strike a balance, and know that in 10 to 20 years they will probably need to kill it again.  But Strawberry shows that a balance can be struck, so there is hope.
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#12
(05-12-2020, 04:15 PM)Anglinarcher Wrote: I think that the Tigers will help, but so would Channel Catfish.  In those waters, which actually get a little warmer in the summer then I believe Tigers prefer.............those darn carp just grow so fast.  Catfish sure have not stopped them in UL.

The bucket biologists planted several channel cats in Mantua over the years.  They would grow quite large, but for some unknown reason, they never seemed to reproduce in there. (I got the information regarding channel cats in Mantua directly from a UDWR biologist assigned to Pelican, at the time.)
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#13
They planted a bunch again last fall into Mantua. (Cats) I would love to see them take off there, but wont hold my breath
Remember: keep the lid on the worms, share your jerky, and stop by to say hi to Cookie and the Cowboy-Pirate crew
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#14
Doesn't surprise me a bit to have someone who thinks the DWR is somehow at fault or they are so incompetant. I'm not a biologist and I don't work for the DWR, but I was on the rotenone porject that day. We waited for about as good of conditions as could be hoped for -- low water, cool water and fortuneately we had a nice steady wind from West to East. We marked out quadrants for each crew and boat and covered that lake so thoroughly it was unreal. With the wind, the lake mixed the rotenone perfectly. We had crews applying rotenone as far back in tothe bulrushes as humanly possible. They rotenoned  the inlet. Unfortunately nature finds a way to survive dispite our best efforts to overcome it. The water wasn't completely out of the bulrushes and there are a few other places that can't be easily reached. Nobody on that crew that day can be blamed for a screwup and not a soul who didn't show up can accurately judge and impune the efforts of those who were there!!! We're all disappointed to find carp in there again, but they're there so we move on with new ideas and efforts. I can say this, that the bass and bluegill are growing and reproducing very well so hopefully they stay ahead of the carp.
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#15
(05-12-2020, 04:15 PM)Anglinarcher Wrote:   I think that the Tigers will help, but so would Channel Catfish.  


If I remember correctly channel cats were on the list for restocking in Pelican.

I hope so because we have caught some that were pushing ten pounds and if they can help with the carp then even better.
Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
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#16
I love that line from Jurassic Park " life finds a way" I dont doubt the effort was well planned out and executed. I would not want carp as my mortal enemy. They have proven thier moxy many times over

I would love to meet you sometime and learn more about the process just to get better educated on how it works
Remember: keep the lid on the worms, share your jerky, and stop by to say hi to Cookie and the Cowboy-Pirate crew
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#17
i dont dare quote anything here anymore but strong posts anglin archer and fish nate
I believe the aussie carp virus is similiar to our herpes if i remember right
when my pops retired he took a pretty much full time voli job with tu
so ive had numerous opurtunities to voli along side the awesome men and women the udnr employs as biologists and others, on roatone
and elcetro shockin projects.
Planted willows  done stream cleanups and resteration projects placed and maintained boot washing stations etc
and spent quite a few days at trade shows and fundraisers and charity events along side these people as they edjucate answer any questions and make themselves available as they are pretty much every day on the job.
personally i really enjoy the challanges of whippystickin the poopfish more so than largemouths
they gits no respect as tube dude says
I fully understand this is a minority opinion and dont deny the devistaing effects of over carpulation
I dont normally kill things i dont have beefs with but ill sure do my part in certain waters to help
i used to bow fish em back in the midwest and on the stealth sup i bet i could rack some #ers
if like the pnw pike minnow i were to git a bounty or trade in not needing to purchase a liscence id be way more inclined
Tongue
so yeah theyre not perfect very few things are mistakes tend to git made unforseen things happen
but if anyone has CONSTRUCTIVE critisms or a state whose biologists you think does things better
post em up and ill pass them along or they are always willing to take help and input
far as those co pike minnows
im not sure if im at 10k of casts
but ive made a bunch and one of these days my flies gonna end up here
[Image: copm_zpsbihsmcvj.jpg]
like my bros did
in the end the omega man will be fishing for carp with cockroaches
"I have found I have had my reward
In the doing of the thing" Halden Buzz Holmstrom
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