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Elk dying (OT)
#1
[url "http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/03/04/dying.elks.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/03/04/dying.elks.ap/index.html[/url]

I hope it doesn't turn out to be some unstoppable[size 2][/size]/incurable Elk disease that spreads across the west.
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#2
Yesterday the Casper paper in wyoming said that they believe the elk have been run to exhaustion. They dont even mention that about 2 months ago not far from where the elk are there were a pack of the wolves that the enviromentalits think need to be here were attacking cattle. Well about 3 weeks ago they reported that the wolves could not be found. Now the elk are dying from exhaustion. Humm i wounder where the wolves have gone. Personally every one of them SOB should be killed and should have not been reintroduced in the first place.
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#3
[unsure] I hope they fing out what it is thats killing them.
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#4
Couldn't agree with you more. We should all practice the 3 S's.
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#5
That i horriable i hope that it doesnt happen here in utah, of course the unit that i put in for is one of the best bull producing hunts and the people that hunt there and then go on the news cant keep their mouthes shut about what unit they took it on so everbody and their dogs are putting in for it now.
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#6
I agree with you. I just hope they don't try to re-introduce them into UT. Keep them in yellowstone if the environmentalists want to see wolves. Just don't let them back into our state.
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#7
We should transplant some in Central Park and then see what happens.
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#8
Man, them elk are what I'm worried about. If them wolves hit Utah(which they already have) they're going to start wiping out our deer and elk populations. I say kill all them little wolves in the west. The elk in yellowstone will come back, no more massive kill-offs, and Utah will still remain an excellent state for killing monster bulls.
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#9
[size 1]"they're going to start wiping out our deer and elk populations", stated by the jensen kid.[/size]

[size 1]I know there a lot of issues with wolves in Utah, but come on, are you really going to blame wolves for depleting (who says they are depleting anyway?, do you have any proof?) elk herds. Facts go a long way and here's a few for ya.[/size]

[size 1]In 2002 there wer 169 wolves in Yellowstone. There are 30,000 elk that summer in the park, and 15-22,000 that winter in the park. In 2002 there were 291 elk killed in the park documented. In Utah there were 1,380 elk killed by, you guessed it, hunters, and not to mention how many elk die from loss of habitation due to housing developments. It would be my guess that if wolves were officially introduced into Utah those areas would be off limits to housing devolopments, thus preserving elk habitat. So who is it actually depleting elk herds? my guess is not wolves!!![/size]
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#10
291 documented elk is all when in the winter of 2002-2003 there were a pack of wolves by pinedale wyoming that run 450 elk off of a feed ground in the middle of february. and they only killed 291 in the park i find that a bit hard to believe. This winter there were a pack of wolves traveling from day to day between two feed grounds in wyoming and eventually the 2 of them were killed but they are still on the feed ground. Also in the same winter i am not sure of the number but there is another feed ground around big piney wyoming where the herd was run out by the wolves and is documented in that herd that a few elk were killed others were partially eaten some had only the nose ate off some had to be put down by fish and game because the manager on the feed ground reported that the wolves would run the elk take one down and when it was almost dead spot others and go after them. The man stated that is was like fish in a lake that the wolves seem to be on a feeding frenzy but it was more like a killing frenzy. Now i find it hard to buy that the wolves only killed 291 elk in yellowstone. As far as the elk dieing in wyoming i have no prof and that is just my theroy. If i can find the articles on the wolves and the elk feed grounds i will post them.
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#11
291 who buys that? I would encourage anyone interested in the wolves to read all of these and the last one is where all the elk are currently dieing in wyoming

http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v1n51/v1n51s4.htm
http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v3n41/v3n41s3.htm
http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v2n47/v2n47s2.htm
http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v2n47/v2n47s2.htm
http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v2n4/v2n4s3.htm
http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v3n41/v3n41s2.htm
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#12
You've never been to the elks winter range, have you? My cousin's marying a wyoming boy that hunts that every year. Over the last ten, you guessed it. Less elk. Sure, plenty of cows and bulls. Don't get me wrong. But when 75% of the calfs are killed on the winter range outside of the park, thats devistating.
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#13
I found it to be a little strange myself, so I went back to the document I was gettin info from. At the beginning of the section I read it was stated that 291 elk were killed in 2002, later on in the article is states that during winter wolves killed an average of 1.8 elk/wolf/30-day study period. With that new calculation it turns out just over 300 per month. Here is the article is you would care to take a look. [url "http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature/animals/wolf/wolfrpt02.pdf"]http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature/animals/wolf/wolfrpt02.pdf[/url]
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#14
I'm not sure what the cause is, however, if they have been run ragged it could very well have been from Coyotes or feral dogs rather then Wolves.

I seriously doubt that there will ever be an organized reintroduction of Wolves into Utah. However, I do believe they will recolonize Utah from the north eventually and will need to be managed. They are currently federally listed under the Endangered Species Act as endangered south of US Highway 50 and as threatened north of US Highway 50 in Utah. The state of Utah can manage them only if they are delisted (removed from endangered or threatened status) in Utah. The Fed' intends to do just that in the near future for those north of US Highway 50 in Utah.

So, no matter what your opinion on wolves in Utah, your best chance to be heard is going to be at one of the upcoming [url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/news/04-02/wolf.html"]Utah Wolf Working Group public meetings[/url]. If you plan on attending a meeting and want to be a little more informed about the issue before you go, you may find [url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/wolf/pdf/Wolves_in_Utah_nov15.pdf"]Wolves in Utah: An Analysis of Potential Impacts and Recommendations for Management[/url] done by Utah State University usefull. Unlike other media sources, it appears to be relatively unbiased and based primarily on scientific evidence.
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#15
Wolves are notorious for running elk for miles. They'll wait til a weak or sick one gets seperated from the herd and its dinner time. I don't really look at wolves as a bad thing. Most places that have CWD should have good numbers of wolves to control the spread and other diseases. Currently there is about 400 breeding pairs and they are just waiting for the states management plan to be approved to remove them from being endangered. I wouldn't be surprised if they start having a limited number of tags issued.

People always will blame predators for the decline in hunting or wildlife numbers but they rarely ever look at the real reason behind it. I try and keep a open mind about issues that will effect me.

That same area had a mysterious disease kill herds of antelope. They check the elk for CWD and a couple other major diseases and nothing came up positive.
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#16
Looks like things are going just fine to me up on the elk refuge.

[url "http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wy-elk-numbers.htm"]http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wy-elk-numbers.htm[/url]
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#17
just for your infor i live in wyoming i have seent the wolves where there were supposed to be no wolves shortly after the reintroduction i hunt the same elk that the wolves are destroying i have seen the remains of the animals after the wolves. i am sorry but i personally dont have any use for them and i think that the federal government is making a big mistake by not letting the states manage the wolves. when they make it to your part of utah all i know is you will really start to look at it in a different light.
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#18
http://www.sublette.com/examiner/v3n50/v3n50s4.htm
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#19
The wolves are already in Utah. Even if the fish and game does not want to admit that. Last fall by buddies dogs were attacked by a pair of wolves. one lived and the other did not. He saw the the wolves up close and knows for sure they were wolves. There were also a couple of others trapped recently, and more seen by ranchers. The fish and game can deny it all they want but they are here and more to come. I personally think they sholdn't have been reintroduced.
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#20
Even though I'm not a hunter, I know enough about ecology and animals to be relatively sure the wolves are to blame. I read a recent paper by wildlife biologists that are trying to study the impact of wolves on cougars in Yellowstone. Apparently, instead of hunting for themselves, wolves are waiting for the cougars to kill the deer and when this happens the wolves move in to eat the fresh deer and often the cougar as well. So many cougars are being killed that they are tagging the cougars with neck collars to track them. The biologists are constantly dissappointed to find their radio collars on dead cougar remains left by the wolf packs. Just think how vicious those wolves really are....preying on cougars. No, I don't want them wolves in Utah or anywhere near where I am. If they get hungry enough I'm sure they'll eat me too and I don't want to have to carry a rifle for self defense everytime I go fishing or hiking in the wilderness. Did any of you hear about how that cougar in California chowed down on two people before anyone even knew what was going on. The lady that escaped was pounced upon while riding a bike! If a bike can't even outrace these predators, being on foot in the wilderness means little chance of escape should they be starving enough to attack. Oh sure, they're normally afraid of humans. But I don't want to be that rare exception to the rule. Oh yes, this is sounding decidedly selfish and anthropocentric, the environmentalists would argue, but hey, I value my own life and safety above other living things. Non-dangerous endangered species? Yes, do all we can to protect them. Wolves, leave them in Alaska. Sorry to those who disagree, just my opinion on this topic.
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