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Steel line trolling rigs
#1
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I want to set up a steel line trolling rig. Biteme, who has done quite a bit of this type of trolling, has given me some really good tips in helping me decide what I need but I'd also like to hear anyone else's ideas that could also help me set up a killer outfit. Here are some of my questions:[/size][/font] [ol] [li][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]There are several different types of fishing wire and cable. American Fishing Wire makes single strand wires from Stainless and Monel that they claim are very kink resistent. Also there are "cables" or mutistrand wires. Which do you prefer and why? Any charcteristics of either worth noting? Is 40# enough or should I go heavier like 60#?[/size][/font][/li] [li][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Once I decide on the type of wire line I want, how much line would someone expect to need? 300ft? 600ft? More? This dictates how big a reel I would expect to need. I've been leaning towards the good, old Penn Senator models. These are tough as nail, proven with no levelwind to saw through but I don't like the low gear ratios. Are there other options others have found work great?[/size][/font][/li] [li][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Rods. Biteme run tungsten carbide guides on his rod.Nothing better for wear but EXPENSIVE! Others have said rollers and roller tips are good enough? What's your take on this? I know standard guides are useless and will saw thru in a season. Also what length and rating for the rod? Is 7" long enough? Too long? 20-40# rating or 30-60#? I heard of guys hauling up trees they snag so backbone can be important.[/size][/font][/li] [li][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Any other tip on equipment and techniques would be appreciated. [/size][/font][/li][/ol]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Thanks to all for your valued opinions.[/size][/font]
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#2
Hey BLM, It sounds like you are going for some big game somewhere. I have never seen any Tuna when I was living in Utah but then again, you know what the fools with the bucket brigades can be capable of.

Anyways, in answer to your questions. #1 Single strand wire can be difficult to work with at times. As much as they claim that it is kink proof, they are just trying to make a sale. I prefer the stranded myself. All the big Tuna guys out here in Cali use the stranded in the big Salty. It is more pliable and has much less chance of kinking than your single strand. Please believe me. I still do alot of electrical work and stranded wire is more flexible without breaking or kinking.

Ultimately the line should not exceed the rating of your rod and reel. I have seen first hand what happens when a line exceeds the rating of the reel or the rod and it can be very costly. Even health wise.

#2

Since the respooling is not as often as when you are useing a mono or a flourocarbon. It is better to buy what you may need and you can even make some extra leaders out of some of the extra material.

#3

The Penn Senator comes in various sizes. If you went with one of the larger ones, it would allow you room for expansion. The 115L is only about $150 and allows you to use 675yds of 50lb line and has a 2.5 to 1 ratio. The 116L can run you just over $300 and can hold 800yds of 80lb with a 2 to 1 ratio. Then there is the 114H just for trolling, it holds 475yds of 50lb with a 2.8 to 1 ratio.



As far as guides go on a trolling rig, we use alot of combination polls here in Cali for the big game. The top guide and the base guide both have rollers. The Tungsten guides are in between. This has proven to be a good combination and helps to reduce the friction all around on your pole. It also helps in the weight distribution of the line on the pole with out having to go to a spiral guided pole.

If you are planning to use the pole for extremely heavy fish, I would suggest a 6 1/2 or 7' heavy duty pole. Up to 60#.

#4

I'm sure you already know that using steel leader on ball bearing swivels are a must. You can easily store the extra leaders in a containment device of your choice. Ziplock sandwich bags work great for me. I then keep them an a CD storage case. There is no tangling and you can mark the length of the leaders for your convenience.

I hope this information helps you. You can use some, all or none of it at your discretion.
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#3
I have some friends who target FG macs with steel line. I've fished with them a few time and I never really enjoyed it. So if you haven't tried it, get with someone who has the equipment before you lay out the cash for your own gear.

I don't know the specifics of the equipment, but they used multi-strand cable, big coffee can reels, and stout rods with roller guides on the tips. These outfits aren't available locally.
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#4
i used to fish with the heavy metal all the time at the gorge,i learned alot about fishing steel.I learned i really didnt care for it either,but thats just me.BLM i was useing 30lb multi-strand wire,it not kink proof but alot easier to work with.Pole was a ugly stick medium/heavy action,with a penn309level wind.

I never had any trouble with the level wind (personally i think steel works better with a level wind reel)Kinda hard to make sure it feeds level on the spool when your fighting a fish.

As you well know it all about presatation for any fish esp big macks,i found when fishing steel there was to much guess work involed,i want to know where my lure is all the time.Didn't know how far down i was ,how far back i was,this is why i use downriggers now.

Iam not trying to talk you out of fishing steel it a experince,ans if the conditions are just right it might be the best thing on the water.When fishing with steel remember to set your drag as loose as you can,when you snag up,and you probable will,there is not a lot of strech in steel line,and its easy to lose the whole thing.

What ever you decide good luck and have fun.
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#5
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Thanks for the info, guys! Like you said, kokeking, it's all about presentation so whay not have them all, right? When you have 12 rod holders on the boat you just got to fill them, right! HA![/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I'm going to set up a steel line outfit. I don't like reinventing wheels so I've asked questions. I have all the stuff to deal with steel cable. Crimper, sleeves, ball bearing swivels, etc. I just need a reel that can do the job once. Also a rod that can handle the anomolies of steel line.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Again, thanks for the info. I appreciated everyone's insight on the subject.[/size][/font]
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#6
just make sure to get a roller tip if nothing else that steel line well cut a grove in most any thing given time..

from the fuzzyfisher------------------fish on dudes
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#7
BLM, the reels I've used weren't level winds, rather, they had a narrow but large diameter spool.
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#8
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]They might have been Penn 49L's. Large diameter and narrower than a Senator. Supposedly this allows lower gear ratios while the larger diameter helps in the retreival speed by taking more line per revolution. Great trolling reels. Thanks for reminding me about these. Been a while since I've seen them. They'd be great for steel![/size][/font]
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#9
[font "Arial"][size 2]Many reels are available that will handle wire fishing line with ease. However, any reel that can hold 300 or more yards of line can be used with wire. When stainless steel fishing wire is used, it only needs to be matched with the right lure combination and trolled at the right feeding range.
Catching walleye consistently requires proper depth control and trolling the correct lure. The conventional lure that offers both ease of use and steadfast production is the plug. From deep diving to shallow diving they all offer the same benefit - precise depth control.Combining old techniques with new also works with the time tested worm harness. In addition, when fishing stainless steel wire fishing line, the angler will feel every headshake, dive, and twist. When using a small diving disk and worm harness, trolling takes on a new perspective. [/size][/font][size 2][font "Verdana"]if your wired right almost anything works at any length wire. as for wire i use 3 kinds with excellent succes. 1st pic over all others is .016 carbon steel music wire, 2nd is 304 stainless .016, and 3rd is a lower carbon steel same size. the ultra high carbon spring steel wire is best, no stretch, and it practically refuses to kink,bend or twist. you can get any wire in the world from McMaster-Carr, who gets theirs from Malin co. ni-chrome is out, it's weak, hard to get, and costs more. for the price of a few feet of ni-chrome, you can buy about a 1/8 mile of SS or carbon steel (in 1lb. spools).

using steel guitar string from my sons own guitar (the E string). he gets his wire from his local music shop at 3 dollars a piece. [/font]


[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]It takes a bit more skill to catch Lake Trout, especially in the summer-time. For years people have been using trolling rods with thick line and lots of weight to fish deep. It's the exact opposite ideology if you want to catch them. Thick heavy line causes more friction with the water, thus it is harder to go deep. Plus heavy trolling rods are not sensitive enough to feel a small fish hit your lure when you are fishing 60 feet deep.

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]You need a light action rod with six pound test line. You also need three-way swivels and a 3oz weight.

[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Below is a diagram showing the setup:

[Image: rig.jpg] [/size][font "Arial"][size 2]By using light line, the line has less friction with the water and slices through so that your line goes down to the bottom without having lots of line out. Tie two 4 foot pieces of line to your three-way swivel. Use a 3 oz. weight on one line and a light lure on the other. Lake Trout like small lures. Use #1 or #0 Mepps or Blue Foxes. The absolute best lure for Lake Trout is the Sutton Silver Spoon. Try to find a 2 inch weightless. Your local bait store will have to order them for you. It's very rare to see them on the shelf.





[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Trolling Slow:

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]You only want to move just fast enough for your lure to work and no faster. If your boat is moving too fast, it will be very hard to find the bottom of the lake. If you are using a boat with a bigger motor and it's hard to keep slow, try back trolling.

[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Finding the bottom:

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]The most important aspect of Lake Trout fishing is letting out line to get to the bottom. DO NOT JUST LET YOUR LINE OUT UNTIL IT HITS BOTTOM. Hold the rod in one hand with the bail open. Let the line run through the palm of your other hand and grip the line. Once the boat starts moving and you have a good straight troll going, open your hand with the line then close it again. This way you can let out a foot or two of line at a time. Get a rhythm going. Open, close, open, close. Your rod tip will bounce up and down as you release little bits of line at a time. The rhythm of your rod tip bouncing will be disrupted when your weight hits the bottom of the lake. When this happens, reel up a foot or two. The purpose of this procedure is to keep your three way swivel setup from getting tangled.

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]Trout are funny when it comes to hitting your lure. Small ones will hit and then take off so you know you have a fish on. The really big trout will hit the lure and slowly swim away. They are so big they don't know they're hooked. So if you get a snag, make sure it's not a fish before you start toughing on your line. If it's a big trout, loosen the drag on your reel because they will go nuts and strip a 100 yards of line off your reel before you can turn them.

[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Weather:

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]In the summer time, Lake Trout hit best in the morning between first light and 10:30 AM. They will hit better if the surface of the water is dead calm and it's a clear sky with high pressure. Any other conditions will cause them to slow down. If it's early spring, the trout seem to feed in other parts of the day, thus they are easier to catch. In some lakes the trout feed before dark.

[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Structure and wind:

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]Take a close look at the structure of the shoreline and try to extend the elevation patterns into the lake. If you see a cliff, odds are the water is deep at it's face. If you see a string of islands, odds are there is a shallow shoal that runs between them. Trout like drop-offs so you would want to troll parallel to the string of shoals and not over them.

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]When you drop your line to the bottom, count how many times you let out line. You can get a good estimate of the depth. Try to stay in 40 to 60 feet of water. If you come across a spot and catch a trout, odds are there are more of them there. The wind is very important when trout fishing. Traditionally for warm water fish like Walleye or Musky, you would fish on the side of the lake were the wind is blowing. The logic being that the fish follow the surface food that is being blown in. With trout it is the exact opposite. The wind also blows the warm surface water which does not hold enough oxygen for the trout. Thus fish the side of the lake where the wind is coming from.

[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Depth:

[/size][font "Arial"][size 2]In the Spring, the Lake Trout will be right up to the surface. As the water starts to warm up with the changing weather, the trout start to go deeper. Here is the approximate depth for different times of year. This is not true for all lakes. Some smaller spring fed lakes will have Lake Trout shallow all year.

Just after ice-out --> Between 10 feet and the surface
Mid Spring --> About 35 to 45 feet deep
Late Spring --> About 50 to 65 feet deep
Summer --> Summer is the tricky part. Many believe that the Lake Trout go to the deepest part of the lake and stay dormant. In actual fact, the Lake Trout stay suspended in 53° thermal layers. Why are they there? That's where all the bait fish are. Lake Trout feed on Whitefish and Suckers, which they find suspended in schools. There will be trout on the bottom but they are not feeding. When they do feed, they come shallower to feed on suspended bait fish.

[/size][font "Arial"][blue][size 2]Depth Finder:

[font "Arial"]It's good to have a depth finder so you can map the schools of bait fish that are suspended. When you do come across a school, troll around the outside of the school. The Lake Trout sit right underneath the school waiting for weak or injured fish to venture outside the school. Out in the middle of the lake, you will find these schools of bait fish in the 40 to 60 foot range. It's different on most lakes but this is a good place to start. [/font][/size][/blue][/font][/font][/blue][/font][/font][/font][/blue][/font][/font][/blue][/font][/font][/font][/blue][/font][/font][/blue][/font][/font][/blue][/font][/font][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2]hope this helps daymere [/size][/font]
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#10
Daymere very good info i had to read it twice,lots of good tips.A very good article for anyone wanting to fish steel,lots of good tips on anyone that fishes for big mack.From novice to those of us that have been chaseing them for awhile.
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#11
Daymere, thanks for sharing. What pound test do you think is best for trolling lake trout?
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#12
lighter line goes deeper ,but i would try a iron silk or magna thin smaller dia but has high pound test than line its own size.
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#13
Just since the guys have been casting out recommendations for reels - I'll throw out mine.

This reel goes for about $30-$35 new/used on EBay.

[font "Arial"][size 4]PENN LEVELINE 350M[/size][/font]

[font "Arial"][size 2]Check out the levelwind feature - it is unique on this reel and this is the best casting reel for sturgeon because the line rides on top of the levelwind.[/size][/font]

[font "Arial"][size 2]It holds a ton of line - cost is cheap compared to ?? and it is a PENN.[/size][/font]

[font "Arial"][size 2]It not available anymore and only sold used...[/size][/font]

[font "Arial"][size 2]Good Luck...[/size][/font]

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#14
i use 1000 feet of 90 pound multi strand that can be purchased at sportsmans on a penn 330 gti reel and a 8 1/2 ugly stick medium action down rigger rod with carbon steel guides. Other than jigging this is a fun way to catch the Big lake trout.
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#15
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]That's the plan, clipripper. I ordered the reel and rod, now for cable. Man, that stuff ain't cheap unless you want to order 5000' of it on a bulk spool! In 5000' ft spools, it's about .034 cents per foot compared to about .06 cents on smaller quanities. Ain't nothin' cheap in this world...[/size][/font]
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#16
i would go with the 1000ft due to the fact that on occasion you do loose some and sometimes people with downriggers will cut right behind you and you will snag the downrigger cable which is irritating but you can break there cable and boom but that is another story and sometimes you will be fishing with 300 feet out and when a big snag occurs sometimes 500 will not be enough or when you hook a big fish.


good luck
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