Posts: 35,744
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
[center] ![[Image: winner.gif]](http://www.bigfishtackle.com/images/gforum/winner.gif) [/center][center]For the week ending November 10th 02 [/center]There was a post on another thread (on Prism Shad) regarding whether or not there was a difference in hybrids of striped bass. If you go to a search engine and type in "striped bass hybrids", there are over 3000 sites with info, Many of them are sections of different state or federal fisheries sites.
For those who don't want to take a tour of the whole 3000 sites, here is a synopsis, including some of my own experience and observations. I have been catching hybrid stripers in Florida and Texas since the eighties. In Florida they may be called either "sunshine bass" or "palmetto bass". In Texas they are sunshine bass, swipers or wipers...or just plain ol' hybrids.
The world record for these hybrids is currently just over 24#, from a lake in Virginia. The average state record, in the southern states where they grow bigger and faster, is about 19 or 20 lbs. Wherever they are found, a 10 pound hybrid is considered a good catch, and the average is usually about Willard Bay size...three or four pounds.
Unlike some hybrids, stripers and white bass can be crossed both ways...male striper X female white bass or vice versa. The result is exactly the same. There's no genetic advantage in one cross over another. The offspring are still sterile, which makes them a good fish to stock where a population explosion is not wanted.
Two things everyone who catches them seems to agree upon. 1. They fight well. 2. They are great on the table.
[signature]
Posts: 1,596
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation:
0
thanks for the info tube,
that cleared it up for me and i was unsure about the crossing genes and results. i noticed also a res in colorado actually two that have produced hybrids up around 23 or 24 lbs. average being 23 in. long and around 8-10 lbs.
happy fishing
xman
[signature]
Posts: 35,744
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
Was that reservoir you were reading about called "Nee Noshe". The Colorado state record is out of there...just under 24#. That would be a good spot for you X-man. They also have a lot of willing tiger muskies there.
I lived in Denver for awhile in the mid eighties, a few years after Colorado started aggressively planting wipers in their "flatland" reservoirs, over in the eastern side of the state. It was a long ride across miles and miles of wheat fields, but some trips were really worth it.
By the way, wipers are caught regularly through the ice on several reservoirs in Colorado. They don't quit biting in the winter, but they can't be caught unless someone fishes for them. Hint, Hint. Only problem is, that thick ice really messes up the prop on your fancy boat. Nudge nudge.
Just for the record, it's really tough finding an ice auger that will drill a big enough hole for my float tube too.
[signature]
Posts: 23,576
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2001
Reputation:
0
[size 1]Now there's a sport for the real He-Man fisherman ([#8000ff][size 2]Ice Tube Fishing[/size][/#8000ff]) [cool][/size]
[size 1]I saw you got some footage of snow in Colorado last week so I was wondering if you are seeing any Ice yet?[/size]
[signature]
Posts: 29
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
[  ]Here is some info on wipers i found on [url "http://www.dto.com"]www.dto.com[/url] about wipers they can do what is called backcrossing that is they can spawn with one of its two parent species and the all tackle record is 27.5 pounds check it out its a interesting site
tunaman
[signature]
Posts: 2,345
Threads: 31
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
1
Do you thnk there is any chance that the Hybrids in Willard Bay are or could reach 10 pounds or better, ever. I have heard that the Hybrids can reach over 20 pounds. That would be a real rush.
AFDan
[signature]
Posts: 35,744
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
I don't know whether DWR has conducted any gill net surveys on Willard within the last year, but I would be willing to bet a Prism Shad that there are a few wipers that already exceed ten pounds. Of course every wiper guy has a story of losing one at boatside that would easily make that ten pound mark. Fishermen discover at an early age that any fish lost can weigh whatever you want it to weigh in the telling of the tale.
I have my own theories on what the ultimate potential of wipers in Willard might be. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I have had the luxury of catching wipers in several other states and I've spent a few hours in original research on the subject. I say there is no valid reason why wipers in Willard cannot grow to twenty pounds or more. All they need is plenty of food and a few good growing seasons without being invited home for dinner.
Sound simple? It is. No magic formula involved. Some folks say that Willard is too cold and the growing season is too short. Compared to the wiper waters in the Carolinas, Florida and Texas, Willard is colder. But, it is almost identical to many of the lakes in Colorado that hold large populations of big, fast-growing wipers...that do exceed 20 pounds.
The prairie lakes in Colorado are fairly shallow too. They get warm in the summer and freeze over in the winter. They also usually have other predatory species like walleye, northerns, muskies and both largies and smallies. These fish all compete for the available forage, which is chiefly the gizzard shad, just as it is in Willard.
What's the difference? Here's where my personal opinion comes in. I believe it begins at the bottom of the food chain. In a fertile environment, you get lots of algae and single celled critters...which feed zooplankton and copepods...which feed other aquatic insects and the hatchlings of almost every species of fish in the ecosystem, until they are large enough to eat other prey.
The various species of shad feed on these microorganisms throughout most of their lives. In a sterile or nutrient poor lake, there is not enough food to get baby fish well launched to the fry stage. If they die young, they never grow to a size accessible by predators. In short, no matter how successful the shad spawn, if the larvae have no food, there will be no new shad for the bigger fish to eat.
Utah is a mountain state. Most of our reservoirs are fed by streams dropping fairly quickly into the holding basins. Even in good years, they don't pick up much in the way of new nutrients for the ecology. True, there is some agricultural runoff, but not enough phosphates and nitrogen to feed the bottom of a healthy food chain.
One thing that characterizes prolific wiper waters is an abundance of shad as a forage base. Dinner is always served...24/7. The wipers do not have to spend days looking around a large reservoir for isolated small groups of shad, already being decimated by every other species in the lake. And, the shad are healthy and abundant because of regular infusions of nutrients...either through regular rain runoff, or agricultural fertilizer drainage from many square miles of maintained farmland.
Does anyone else recall the experiment on Lake Mead a few years ago? I don't remember where the funds came from, but several tons of powdered fertilizer were purchased and scattered in one of the big arms of the lake, to see if there would be a positive effect on the food chain. In a short time the biomass in that area of the lake exceeded the rest of the lake combined, and the predator fish were chunky, not "hammer handles".
Sorry. A whole lotta words to say that if you want bigger wipers, you gotta have more shad. DWR realizes the imbalance, and has adjusted wiper limits as a measure to help correct it. But, until Willard gets more water, and more nutrients, there will be no more shad than the nutrient levels can support.
[signature]
Posts: 2,005
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation:
0
This is a great post/reply! Thanks TubeDude ]
[signature]
Posts: 148
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
Thank you all. Ill have to check now on the bass hybreds of oregon all i know for sure is there found in waters with the striped bass here near the ocean alot of research to do id rather do it fishing though but havent found the right fisher people of oregon to help with the subject yet you guys are so great.... BUt for sure once i locate the spot ill try the prism shad....Patti
[signature]
Posts: 148
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
Well i just found out a spot ill have to try in spring supposedly I was told find the largest coastal lake on the oregon map around bandon or florance and there is the place .
But ill sure be at willard on a special trip next year too.
[signature]
Posts: 1,596
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation:
0
hey tube
once again you never stop amazing me. this res is nee noshe. i talked to quite a few people on my trip to colorado a year ago that fished it. and it is what it is a excellent wiper fishery. and you are right about the cold not having really any influence on the matter. the prairies which im sure you can attest for as well are very very cold in the winter. so enough said im fishing it this coming spring see what comes about.
one other question popped into my head. i just heard that splake spawn? is this true? they closed joes valley for the splake spawn. info on this would be much appreciated. another intersting point is the splake in colorado are a far cry from the utah midget splake. exceeding 20lbs. and lengths of over 30 in. i had no idea they got that big. whats up with our hybrids not growing to full potential?
thanks for the info
xman
[signature]
Posts: 181
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation:
0
Splake go through a false spawn as Wipers and Tiger Muskies do, they go to spawning structure/grounds but do not acturelly spawn since they are sterile.
[signature]
Posts: 35,744
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
For the benefit of those who wonder what the heck is a splake, it is a cross between a female lake trout (mack) and a male brook trout. They have been produced in hatcheries since 1870, and are found in cold water lakes across the northern United States.
Like wipers, or any fish, growth rates and ultimate size are determined by how much it gets to eat. Most of the biggest splake recorded come from large bodies of water with large forage bases. The world record came from Lake Huron, in Ontario in 1987 and weighed 20# 11 oz.
It acts and feeds like the brookie until it gets bigger. Then it assumes the characteristics of the mack. It wants meat. Small fish eat bugs, snails and minnows. Bigger ones eat almost any fish of any species they can get down...including perch. An abundance of soft rayed forage species, like alewives or shad, help produce the largest splake.
There are quite a few websites on Splake. One of the better ones is at: [url "http://www.dto.com/fwfishing/species/generalprofile.jsp?speciesid=333"][#800080]http://www.dto.com/fwfishing/species/generalprofile.jsp?speciesid=333[/#800080][/url]
On the subject of fertility and spawning, this is an excerpt from that website: Spawning Habits
Unlike most hybrids, splake are capable of reproducing. However, though they have reproduced in hatcheries, and have successfully back-crossed (splake breeding with one of the parent species) in hatcheries, there are no documented cases of splake actually reproducing in either fashion in the wild.
Regardless, even though splake are presumed sterile in the wild, they still make a spawning run. Spawning takes place in the fall, usually in October, when they migrate to shallow, rocky reefs that are often near the lake’s tributaries.
[signature]
Posts: 1,596
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation:
0
i am assuming they closed it for the false spawn then. i knew most hybrids if not all still follow there indigenous instincts and try to spawn. but i had heard that the splake can reproduce. your information confirms that. this i find incredible and would like to find out more since it is a genetic marvel. thanks for the info tube
xman
[signature]
Posts: 32,616
Threads: 383
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation:
33
Congratulations Tube Dude for being selected for the post of the week.
I finally got around to using my E gift certificate today, I ordered some of those Producer lure look-a-likes made by Stanley. Wiperslayer ordered over 20 of them a couple of weeks ago, when they arrived we compared them to the Producer and except for the color they are the exact lure. The price was only $1.49 each. WH2
[signature]
Posts: 35,744
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
Thanks for the kind thoughts, and the heads up on the lures. I use a lot of shad imitations...both plastics and hard baits. I'll take some of them down to Mexico with me this winter or spring. Everything down there has teeth. I have a whole collection of Rat-L-Traps that are chewed and scratched right down to the bare plastic. Let's see how those Stanley bad boys hold up under some real assaults.
[signature]
|
