Posts: 68
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
Hiked in to Meadow Lake in the Uintas on Saturday. When I got there, a group of about 15 boy scouts with 3 scoutmasters were just finishing breakfast. I asked them how the fishing was and they said "it stunk" and they were glad to be heading home.
I fished for awhile and caught plenty of 5-8 inch cutts on chernobyls, and then left shortly after the scout troop. I was walking back to the trail through the area they were camping and was appalled by the amount of trash! A little bit of everything...candy bar wrappers, one sock, fishing line, lure packaging, an empty bottle of coleman propane...I couldn't believe it. Even if the trash wasn't theirs, don't scouts "pack out more than they pack in?" I was never a scout but I am not above picking up a few pieces of trash that some idiot left behind, let only my own trash!
So...I filled a plastic grocery bag with the trash I could find and then headed up the trail,knowing I could easily catch a group of twenty in five miles. I took the trash up to the leading scout leader and simply said, "I believe you forgot this." Then walked on.
Maybe I went to far. But nothing peeves me like litter does. And believe me, I hike in the uintas once or twice a week and I've ran into many scout leaders that shouldn't even be in charge of themselves.
For what it's worth.
[signature]
Posts: 289
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
0
Posts: 35,742
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
[cool]Good example. As a scout in Southern California, and later as assistant scoutmaster, I spent many long weekends in the Sierras cleaning up camp areas that were chronic dumping grounds for "sportsmen". We arranged for the horse outfitters to take in a bale of burlap bags, and leave them at the sites we planned to clean up. We burned everything we could and bagged the rest. Then, when they came out with the horses riderless...after dropping off a group for a few days...they would pick up the bags and pack them out. Worked great, and we got some commendations.
To reinforce your point, one of the worst camp areas we ever cleaned up was right after a large boy scout group had totally trashed it. We did not know it was scouts until we checked with the national park service, that hands out the permits. We got them cited. I don't know what the outcome was, but I hope there were some lessons learned...and not the wrong kind.
Over the years I have been pleased to observe that most of the people who care enough about wilderness to hike miles back into less congested areas are also more attentive to keeping them clean. I used to think I was the only one who packed out more than I brought it, but you see more and more conscientious hikers piking up trash that is not theirs. Too bad there are so many thoughtless idiots that leave the trash for others to pick up.
You did the right thing. I once threatened to make a couple of guys eat whatever they left behind as they were getting ready to leave camp with a lot of junk laying around. I'm a big guy...in much better shape in those days...and I got my "crazy" look in my eyes. They decided to do the right thing. They stuffed the junk in their packs and I followed them all the way down the mountain to the parking area. I'm glad they didn't force the issue. I hate all that paperwork when you dismember some idiot that really needs it. Plus, more trash to pack out.
[signature]
Posts: 68
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
I guess the scouts are really hard up for scout leaders. I think it's great that kids get to go enjoy the wilderness it's just  that they don't always have an informed and responsible "educator" to make their experience more rewarding and meaningful. But then again, there are far more scouts than there are good leaders with the spare time to make a difference.
[signature]
Posts: 1,389
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
0
I'm sure glad I didn't have some of those worthless leaders. All mine were mountain men or extreme outdoorsmen that would of ripped us a new one for leaving any kind of new mark on the land. Every place we camped we improved it for the next group. Our leaders had their own busy life but they made time for what was important to the scouts as well as them. Every year I see what's going to be the new generation and it isn't looking good for fishing, hunting, or the great outdoors.
It seems like everybody has their own little agenda now and it sucks for the kids because they are the ones that suffer.
[signature]
Posts: 1,073
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2003
Reputation:
0
I think you did the right thing.That is the one thing I impress on my kids and grandkids always pack out what you pack in.Most people are to busy anymore to even take their kids out to fish or hunt. It is a state that our youth are in.Alot of people rely on others to teach them and they are not teaching them the right way.
[signature]
Posts: 389
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2003
Reputation:
0
I took a group of scouts into the Uintas in early July. We scoured the camp in two directions. Took out much more trash than we took in. No campfires even though at the time we could have fires. Leave No Trace practiced at all times. It takes a little extra effort, but is well worth it. We can't over emphasize enough the importance of keeping the outdoors as pristine as possible. The boys soon develope pride and ownership of the outdoors. Good call returning their trash. It was theirs. There is always a need for good ethical scout leaders.
[signature]
Posts: 549
Threads: 1
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation:
0
Junksiege,
You did the right thing. Not only that but I commend you for having the courage to do that. As a former scout leader I can say that I too was quite often disgusted by the lack of leadership diplayed by so many of the other so called scout masters. But I think that what you saw is a reflection of a bigger picture of society. Personal responsibility is not in fashion anymore. For some reason people in general seem to feel no responsibility to anyone but themselves. In other words, most people these days must be compelled to do what they should. 12 year old kids(the scouts themselves) are that way by nature. But there is no excuse for the adults out there. Laziness and selfishness are at the heart of this. That how the world is becoming. You did the right thing Junksiege. If you had not done it, that leader would not have been compelled to do any more than he did. Lets hope he learned something. Maybe next time you could get a troop number and report them to their council. Maybe that would motivate those bums in the future.
I am proud to say that our troop always left things better than we found it. The last half-hour of every one of our camps was dedicated to picking up trash, no matter who left it. Often we were in an established Forest Service campground, and the camp hosts were usually very surprised to see us cleaning up THE WHOLE CAMPGROUND. He got many sincere thanks. I don't know if the scouts learned anything, but we tried our best to send the message.
I also want to mention that I am very impressed with many of the BFT members who make cleaning up after others part of their outings. Many, many times I've read posts where you REAL OUTDOORSMEN have picked up after pigs that had been there previously. I thank you.
m
[signature]
Posts: 3,535
Threads: 1
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
When I was in Scouts our scoutmasters always had us take the last half an hour to clean up the entire camp as well. We made sure that every tiny little piece of trash, twine, or anything was picked up, whether we brought it or whether it had been there for 20 years. We also kept a bag handy while on the trail, so that we could pick up anything we found along the trail and keep the area looking beautiful. I think the Uintahs have got to be one of the most beautiful places on earth, and it ticks me off so bad to see someone's trash left behind. Now that I'm an assistant scoutmaster myself, I make sure to teach our scouts the same thing....keep things looking beautiful so everyone else can enjoy it too. If I catch a scout littering, he'll find out that I won't just make him pick up what he tossed, but everything else within 100 yards as well!
[signature]
Posts: 549
Threads: 1
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation:
0
Right on cat_man! I'm not in scouts anymore but there are plenty of boys out there who had their life threatened over the littering issue. I'm a real stickler for the rules, and that was very high on my list. I was a big safety nut too. We never sent a scout home with injuries.
m
[signature]
Posts: 68
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
Man, looks like everyone was a scout. I hope noone thinks I'm scout bashing or anything. I'm just making the point that I've seen some scout leaders that I wouldn't want my kids camping with (if I had kids). I never got into scouts myself. I was always up with my dad, and uncles, and grandpas, learning a thing or two from a more appreciative generation.
[signature]
Posts: 520
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2003
Reputation:
0
GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!! I was pissed off as soon as I started reading your post and then was extactic when you gave it back to them. Would have loved to see the expression on his face. I was also in the scouts and then a scout leader when my son joined. The lack of respect for the wilderness that the leaders[?] have any more is discusting. I have a real problem understanding what they are thinking. Surley they weren't raised that way. You didn't by chance happen to catch the troop number or better yet what council they were from?
[signature]
Posts: 68
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
No, I didn't even think of getting a number. I have to admit though, that I did enjoy shoving their "trash" back in there face like that. A little evil pleasure I suppose. But really, I would rather next time they just clean up than get them in trouble with their organization. I think he got the point, as well as the other two leaders who were right there too.
[signature]
Posts: 1,791
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2003
Reputation:
0
I watched the scouts go down hill personally about 8-10 yrs ago. I was in scouts and trying to achieve that prestigious award of eagle and instead I watched my scout master turn the program from a youth activity group on respect, loyalty , conservation and responsibility to a every pickup basket ball game every wednesday night at the local ward house. Dont get me wrong, I liked the basketball games, but I also enjoyed the BSA outings. I can proudly say I perservered on my own by attending things at the BSA headquarters up by the UofU and got my eagle. This is my favorite part, alot of my friends drivers licenses were depended on them getting their eagle award, and none of them got theres. I was told by my folks, if ya get your eagle great, if you dont oh well, but just remember your older brother got his!!! Motivation of a different kind [  ] My father was a scout master before I was born and from some people I hear he was incredible at it, teaching the values that scouts are supposed to learn. But he was releaved from his position when one of the scouts came home and told the local church leader that my father made him clean out his coffee pot. The community didnt want the scout master to be giving off that type of image??? I think that people need to realize the true reasoning of scouting and of course where it came from!!!!
[signature]
Posts: 549
Threads: 1
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation:
0
I believe scouting is one of the best things a boys can get into, that is, when scouting is done right. When scouting is done right it teaches good values, ethics, and the value of hard work. When it is done wrong it has the opposite effect and the kids(not scouts) end up thinking everything should be free and that there are no consequences for actions. Get your boys into a GOOD troop and you won't be sorry. I support scouting whole heartedly but I don't support the bad leaders. And I must say, there are a lot of good leaders too.
m
[signature]
Posts: 3,535
Threads: 1
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
Right On! I think nowadays the good leaders are getting more scarce. People seem to be less willing to spend the time necessary to be a good leader and the the youth good outdoor and life skills. Then we wonder why fewer and fewer youth like the outdoors, why more and more are getting into trouble with the law.
[signature]
Posts: 520
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2003
Reputation:
0
I was a Scout leader for my sons troop and helped with my daughters Girl Scout troop. At the time I was involved in a lot of things. I worked full time, I was a volenteer firefighter, an EMT IV, a paid CPR instructor for the Red Cross, and taught Firearm Safety classes for the Game Dept., oh yea, I also coached my daughters soccer, basketball, and baseballs teams. Needless to say, I was a very busy person. But what the boy and girl scouts got out of it was everyone, including parents, were very well knowledged in CPR, Firearm Safety, and had the best first aid training in our district. We would go out on at least one outing a month year around. We made so much fun of it, the boys would bring their dad, uncles, or anyone esle they could find. I would register for a camp and take 12 boys and 13 to14 adults. We were very strict on conservation and respect. I had so much fun doing it I just can't understand why they don't take it serious. It was very rewarding. Al
[signature]
Posts: 2,011
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation:
0
It took a lot of guts to persue your eagle without the help of a dedicated scoutmaster. My dad was our scoutmaster when I was growing up. He started with a troop of 6 boyscouts that became a group of more than 200 in just a couple of years just because he was willing to spend the time with the kids. Not a lot of people will do that with someone elses kids. Both my brothers got their eagles, I however fell short.
[signature]
|
