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using fishfinders
#1
Okay group, I have a question about fishfinders, specifically the scrolling of the screen.

On my fishfinder, I can set the scroll rate from a still screen to a setting where the fish icons swim through the screen faster than the real fish.

So, here's the question: What is the purpose of a scrolling screen??? I don't get it.

ES
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#2
[cool]Many of the bells and whistles of sonar are wasted on float tubers (and tooners). The pulse rate of the sonar remains essentially the same at any speed. However, if you are prospecting at 10 miles an hour, from a boat, you would want a faster scroll speed to display a more realistic and accurate readout. A slow scroll speed at high water speed would run all the fish signals together, looking like you were over the world's thickest school of fish.

That's also why I do not recommend buying the high wattage units that display water speed and other niceties that are wasted on floatation fishing.

When fishiing stationary, or moving slowly, I keep the scroll speed slow. This insures that I capture any solid object (fish) entering the cone of the signal. I can't recall ever wanting to have the icons scroll off the screen faster. I like them to remain a few seconds so that if I look away for a bit I do not miss something.

One of the questions a lot of people have is why the fish icons all swim the same way. Duh. My wife and I banter back and forth that one of us saw a large fish on the screen...but it was swimming away from the other person. Or maybe we warn that the subject fish is swimming toward our partner and that they should be ready.

Now you have to launch that craft on some water deep enough to let you put the sonar through its paces. It's great to move in and out from the shoreline and note the incline of the bank...together with bumps, humps and depressions...and to note how the irregularities seem to attract and hold fish. And, on many occasions, you will catch fish while fishing a certain depth...sometimes without seeing fish marks on your screen beforehand. They do come in from the side at times. But, when you have established a pattern that the fish are hitting in a certain depth, you can use your sonar to keep yourself in high percentage water. Many are the days when using that tactic has meant the difference between a few fish and a lot of fish.
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#3
If I am understanding all of this correctly, the pulse rate is how often the sonar takes a "picture." It will refresh the screen everytime it takes a new picture. So if I am stationary and my screen is scrolling past, the same fish may be showing up as if it were "moving" underneath me even if the fish is actually suspended.

If I am still thinking correctly then, if I am stationary and my screen is stationary . . . As fish appear and disappear on my screen, they are actually the ones moving in and out of the transducer's cone????
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#4
[cool]Pretty much on target. One fish can hang in the same spot and look like a passing school. Or one fish can zip through beneath you, but the slow scroll will make it look like it is moving slowly.

I repeat...much of the value of a sonar is not necessarily to find fish targets and then harvest them. It is to gather information on depth, structure and fish suspension levels, if any. I is rare to see a blip, drop a bait and catch the target. But, if you can find a bit of structure, with numerous fish signals on or around it, you should work it over thoroughly. Without the sonar you would likely never know it is there. With sonar, you can fish a smaller area with greater expectation.
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#5
fair 'nuff! Thanks as always for the info.

ES
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#6
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Hi guys! Just was cruisin' thru and saw your post so thought I check it out. I do a lot of vertical jigging and I've come to a little different conclusion that you guys are mentioning. [/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I do no use the fish icons at all. My biggest reason is that every mark the sonar reads is a fish icon whether it's a algae bloom, thermocline, etc. You get my point. You can tell by the movement of the "lines" on the screen if it is indeed a fish and how big it is by pixel count and gray scale (air bladder).[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Also I run the chart speed wide open. I want as real time as I can get and the display to be a current as can be possible. Granted, a flasher is much faster but the graphical interface of the sonar is much more user friendly. Remember, Vertical pixel count is what matters. The left most vertical line of pixels is what's current. Everything else is history.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Anyway, the reason I dropped in was a guy on the Utah board is asking for help mounting a fishfinder on a tube. I thought I'd check here to see if he'd been here first before suggesting he swing this way. If you could help him out that would be great. [/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]BTW, Emuscud, nice pics of your rigging on your pontoon boat. Looks like it should work great! Later guys![/size][/font]
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#7
BLM,

Thanks for the informative response! Now if I can just get out on the water to test it out.

I've been using the fish icons at utah lake because if I turn off the icons, I can't see anything at all. For some reason the first 2 foot of water on my fishfishder is obscured, I can't even make out an arch, or anything else. When the water is only 2-4 foot deep as it is at Lindon BH, it doesn't help much. When I am able to hit Deer Creek, Jordanelle, or the 'Berry, I'm going to switch over to the traditional sonar mode and try it out.

By your post, you imply that chart speed is directly connected to how often the transducer "takes a picture." Sorry for the laymans terms here, I need to do some more reading to get the technical jargon correct.

I guess I need to pull my owners manual off the net and read over it again.

See you on the water!

ES
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#8
[font "MSTT318d76509eo394174S00"][size 2]Fish Symbols vs. Full Sonar Chart (From Lowrance Manual)[/size][/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]

You may have noticed in the quick reference that we used fish arches in full sonar chart mode for our example, and not the popular Fish I.D.[/size][/font][font "Symbol"][size 2] [/size][/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]fish symbol feature. Here's why.

Fish I.D. [/size][/font][font "MSTT31db9e7628o395153IS00"][size 2]is [/size][/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]an easier way for a sonar novice to recognize a fishy signal return when he sees it. However, locating fish by symbol [/size][/font][font "MSTT31db9e7628o395153IS00"][size 2]only [/size][/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]has some limitations. Your sonar unit's microprocessor is remarkably powerful, but it can be fooled. Some of the echoes [/size][/font][font "MSTT31db9e7628o395153IS00"][size 2]calculated [/size][/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]to be fish could be tree limbs or turtles! [/size][/font][font "MSTT31db9e7628o395153IS00"][size 2]To see what's under your boat in maximum detail, we recom-mend you turn off Fish I.D. and begin learning to interpret fish arches. [/size][/font]

[font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]Fish I.D. is most handy when you're in another part of the boat or per-forming some task that prevents you from watching the sonar screen.Then, you can turn on Fish I.D. and the audible fish alarm. When that lunker swims under your boat, you'll hear it! Fish I.D. can also be useful when you want to screen out some of then sonar detail gathered by your unit. For example, in one case fishermen in San Francisco Bay saw clouds of clutter in the water but no fish arches. When a down rigger was pulled up, it brought up several small jellyfish. The fishermen switched their Lowrance sonar to Fish I.D., which screened out the schools of jellyfish and clearly showed the game fish there as fish symbols.[/size][/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2][font "MSTT318d76509eo472210S00"]

Chart Speed (From Lowrance Manual)[/font][font "MSTT31e2e6701do400155S00"][size 2]

The rate that echoes scroll across the screen is called the chart speed. The default is maximum; we recommend that you leave the speed set there for virtually all fishing conditions. However, you might consider experimenting with chart speed when youare stationary or drifting very slowly. You may sometimes achieve better images as you slow down the chart speed to match how fast you are moving across the bottom.

If you are at anchor, ice fishing or fishing from a dock, experiment with a chart speed around 50 percent. If you are drifting slowly, try a chart speed around 75 percent. When you are stationary and a fish swims through the sonar signal cone, the image appears on the screen as a long line instead of a fish arch. Reducing the chart speed may result in a shorter line that more closely resembles a regular fish return.

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I don't know the relationship of the sonar ping speed to the display (or chart) speed. The unit's software determines that. I do know that when you run at max chart speed and get used to seeing a fish as a line and you can see the line moving up or down in almost real time. You can actually see the fish swim up and take your jig.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Good luck with your sonar and carry the "distruction" for a while until you learn all the menus, features, and adjustments it has to offer. I carry two manuals (one for each sonar) on my boat. Later.[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]
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#9
[cool]Thanks for dropping in and providing that complete and insightful info. If all else fails, RTDM (Read The Damned Manual).

As the straight poop suggested, we in our float tubes sometimes get a better read by having the scroll speed at about 50%,..when we are poking around or vertical fishing. However, when moving faster and searching for structure or fish concentrations, the faster scroll speed makes sense.

Did the Pony Express make it there yet?
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#10
[left][size 4]FasTrack [/size][size 3](again from the Lowrance Manual)[/size][/left][size 2] [left]This feature automatically converts all echoes to short horizontal lines on the display's far right side. The graph on the rest of the screen continues to operate normally. FasTrack gives you a rapid update of conditions directly under the boat. This makes it useful for ice fishing, or when you're fishing at anchor. When the boat is not moving, fish signals are long, drawn out lines on a normal chart display. FasTrack converts the graph to a vertical bar graph that, with practice, makes a useful addition to fishing at a stationary location.[/left] [left][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]This allows you to run at max chart speed and still distinquish the fish. Also it shuts down all essential functions so that the processor can use all it's power on the graphics. Also the new Lowrance have a "Flasher" mode that even gives you faster feedback. I'm sure that it's not as fast as a real flasher but I guess it tries. As you can tell I'm a fan of Lowrance. OK, I'll shut up now...[/size][/font][/left][/size]
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#11
[cool]Hey, great input. I readily admit that I am not an experienced Lowrance user. You cannot dispute what works. My only question would be the wattage, and whether or not it might be a bit heavier than feeble float tubers can accomodate with a small SLA battery.

By the way, do you advise a two sonar system for float tubes? Fore and aft?
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#12
Growing up I was always told that fishfinders were "expensive pieces of worthless crap" by my father and grandfather. Of course they also told me that anything that wasn't a trout was a garbage fish and that powerbait is a gift from the fishing gods. Luckily I've been blessed enough to have by horizons expanded in regards to methods of fishing and the great fun to be found with warm water species. However, I have yet to get really involved in using fish finders. I'm thinking that my next toy will be a little unit that I can mount on my float tube and canoe. I'd also like to have the option of using it for ice fishing. What kind of money will I need to spend for a decent unit? I've tried using the Fishing Buddy deals that run on "D" batteries once or twice for ice fishing, but I didn't really like it all that much. Maybe it was because I had no clue how to use them? Are they known to be very good at all? Can they be used effectively on a float tube?

I know that this is kind of shooting off of the question and topic at hand, but I was getting really curious as I read this post.

-Jack
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#13
[cool]Welcome back, Bro. How was the trip?

If you go back through the posts on this forum, you will find several threads that touch on the subject of sonars on tubes. My personal feeling is that I would feel severely handicapped without my underwater eyes.

I just got a PM from Road, there in Utah, who has become an ardent tuber and a great believer in using sonar over the last year. He reinforced what I have been trying to get across to a lot of tubers, and that is the sonar is of greater value in keeping you in high percentage water...right depth and bottom structure...than in finding fish.

Yes, it is great to see your screen full of pixelated fishies, but with most of us, we can tell lots of stories of catching fish even when we saw nothing on the screen. The sonar cone is very small in shallow water, and fish do not always pass directly beneath us...even if they are within easy catching distance of a vertically presented bait or lure.

The flip side of that is true too. Sometimes we get frustrated when we see fish blips but cannot catch them. That is humiliating.

The Fishing Buddy? All I have to offer is that it is better than not having anything. However, for the money, and for float tubes, a hundred dollar system from Eagle or Lowrance will give you all the info you can use. And, with the "skimmer" transducer, you can mount the transducer to a short shaft of 1/2" PVC and carry it with you on a small boat or ice fishing sled. The shaft is easily snapped in and out of broom handle clips you can mount anywhere...on the side of the boat, an ice fishing bucket or whatever.

Go to Sportsmans, or some other place that has the Eagle Cude 168. They will usually have one hooked up to a battery and there is a "demo mode" you can turn on and get a good idea of how the menu works and what to expect.

Once you have sonar, and work with it enough to get a good feel for what it is seeing down there...and how that is displayed...you will become a much better fisherman. At least you will put yourself in better position to catch the fish, even if they have lockjaw on occasion.

If you get down here this fall, I will take you out in a tricked out tube and let you see firsthand how they work. If you can't wait, there are quite a few of the Salt Lake area guys that are installing them now and having good results. Jed Burton just rigged up a Cuda 128 and took it on it's first tubing trip down to Gunlock near St. George. EmuScud also has that model (only about $60) but he has not had it in any waters other than Utah Lake, so he has not had the opportunity to really put it through its paces in deeper water.
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