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Looking for a new fish finder
#1
I know this is a matter of preference and opinion, but I am looking for a new fish finder for my boat. To be quite honest I dont know the slightest thing about them. I had one before, but I didnt know anything about that one, So it got left out in the weather and died. I am hoping for some suggestion on things I should look for in a fishfinder. Components, different images things like that. I would like one that I could transfer from the boat to hard water in the winter with out too much trouble.
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#2
Polo I don't know much about them either, but asking a question like this opens up a can of worms. It all depends on how much you need to spend to get what you want.

This should be fun to watch.
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#3
Rob,

Lots of material already exists on this topic on BFT. Do a search for "Fishfinder" and you will find lots of reading material.
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#4
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Decide how much you want to spend and go from there. There are some nice units under $200. Obviously the better the unit, the more money so decide your price range first.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]FFM, what you mean a can of worms? It's a great subject to discuss because of all the varying opinions. Because not everyone agrees on what is best, it's a perfect issue to dissect, opinionate on, and ponder![cool][/size][/font]
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#5
BLM no offense, it's just one of those kind aof topics that get a very wide variance of input from the general population of fishermen. Everyone has his opinion about what they need from a unit. I expected to see a lot of info put up so I can learn from the rest of you all who have the experience in this area. Some day I will be getting a boat and will need this type of info. And who better to learn from than the folks who use them on a regular basis.

Just look at types of line, there are a million of them and it all depends on your use, brand you like, wieght of like mono, braided, firewire and such.

There are a number of manufacturers, with multilple units at a wide varity of costs.
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#6
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]No offense taken, dude![/size][/font]
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#7
Heres what you do polo, this saturday at starvation, take a walk around and look at everyones setup. That way you get a feel for what goes on the ice and how guys have them rigged, plus you get to see a wide variety of finders.

Like others said, its a matter of price, then opinion. So, determine what your price range is, then formulate your own opinion. Stop by my shantee saturday, we will talk.
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#8
OK then, I still have some salsa left over but its going fast.
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#9
Good suggestions so far. It always helps to look at other peoples setups, and get their opinion on them. If I were you I'd look for a unit with a screen of at least 240 pixels, the higher resolution screens are nice. Garmin, Eagle, Humminbird, Lowrance and others all have units with this resolution. The next most important feature is power. You would be served best by a unit with at least 1500 Watts of power. Higher power equals higer cost. I noticed at Sportsman's the other day that Eagle has a 480 pixel unit, 1500 watts of power for around $200. A nice unit for the price.

I personally have a Garmin setup. I have 2 transducers, one for my ice/portable setup, and one for my pontoon. Having multiple ducers makes for easy removal, and portability. My portable setup is attatched to a suction cup, so I can use it through the ice, or on someone elses boat. When petty4life and myself head out, I can take it along for the ride, and the suction cup mounts nicely on the transom of his boat. I should snap a couple of pics to show you my portable setup.

I have used units from Lowrance, Eagle and Garmin, and I really liked all of them. Stay with a unit by these manufactures and you cannot go wrong. I have no real experience with Humminbird, or bottomline, but I'm sure they would come highly recommended by those who use them.

Go to the store, and play with the units in demo mode. This will give you a feel for how they are going to work for you. Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you choose, and how you like it.

Here is a pic of my portable setup. I keep the SLA battery secure with a 2" velcro strap. The PVC T is for ice fishing, but the ducer/suction cup easily comes off for portability. I have the FishFinder mounted on a Johnny Ray base, so it swivels 360 deg, kind of nice. I can then just detatch the unit, lay it flat, and it's all packaged up. I also can store fishing gear in the bottom trays of the tackle box. I really like this setup, but it is not the be all, end all of setups. I've seen some great systems that other BFT'ers have, and I know they have some valuable opinions that you should take to mind when you make your final choice. once again, good luck.
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#10
I'll just throw this out and if this is an opportunity you want to take advantage of please do.....

From Bountiful, UT


[url "http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3650345985&category=29723"]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3650345985&category=29723[/url]

Or just search on "Lowrance" on EBay


Good Luck
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#11
Hey Craig I couldn't get the link to work all I get is"Invalid Item"
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#12
A few comments on killerbee's post:

As for resolution, vertical pixel count is paramount. Horizontal pixels is nothing but historic. So buy the most vertical pixels per square inch you can afford.

Power: It is a fallacy perpetuated by mfg's marketing hype that mo' power is mo' better. That is absolutely not true. 3000 watts isn't going to show you that walleye hugging the bottom in 35' any better than 50 watts. All those extra watts are just going to pound the crap out of the poor fish and maybe scare him off or at least put him in a negative bite. Quality graphs allocate power judiciously, and vary the amount as needed. Also keep in mind that it's cheaper for mfg's to produce more powerful transmitters than it is to produce more sensitive receivers. So don't choose one graph over another just because it has more wattage.

Kid, tell us your budget and we'll be able to give you some good options.

[size 1]Moose:[/size]

[size 1]We pass the word around; we ponder how the case is put by different people, we read the poetry; we meditate over the literature; we play the music; we change our minds; we reach an understanding. Society evolves this way, not by shouting each other down, but by the unique capacity of unique, individual human beings to comprehend each other. [/size]

[size 1]--Lewis Thomas, The Medusa and the Snail (1979)[/size]
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#13
I have a lot of the same questions, but being impulsive, I picked up a half-price Eagle FishMark 160 at Sportsman's a couple of weeks ago. First, I had to figure out how to transport it, and then I needed a way to tell the wife about the new equipment. I started with the outfit, mounted it in a spare tool box big enough to anchor the battery and hold the PVC pieces. I thought it turned out pretty well so I showed the little lady...she laughed like hell! Said I'd been watching too much Red Green and so she went and got a piece of duct tape to finish it off. (see attached pictures). Anyway, the PVC pieces come apart and fit inside. The box is a little large for a small ice hut and the weight of the finder closes the lid without the piece of wood wedged in to hold it open. You can laugh too, I'm used to it by now.[crazy]

My question, actually questions, have to do with operation of the unit. The instructions are vague at best in describing what some of the features are used for. If anyone is willing to comment I'd like to hear suggestions for setting the following features:

Sensitivity: how high/low is best?
Grayline: This is perhaps the most confusing (to me) feature. What is it for?
Chart Cursor: Seems to be a line through the middle of the screen, what is it for?
Surface Clarity: Is this different for ice and liquid water?
ASP: Off, normal, or high?

Most of the other options are easier for me to understand. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
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#14
Hey Polo,

I saw your post and some of the responses to it. I don't want to get into sonar theory, etc and bore you to death, but I've been through more sonar classes than most people (part of my job) and know quite a bit about sonar. However, most of the posts to your question are right on the money. Vertical pixel (usually, but not always, the second number.... example 240 x 128 equals 240 horizontal by 128 vertical) are probably the most important. Power is usually very over-rated in most fresh water cases (<200 feet depths). I found some interesting info on the internet at the Bottom Line sonar website that pretty much sums everything up very nicely. I'll paste it below. Basically, determine your budget and then go from there. All the name brands have good units. I'm partial to Eagle (made by Lowarance without the Lowrance high price), however everyone will have an opinion. Good luck and PM me if you want to talk about it some more. Here's the info:

1. What is sonar and how does it work?

Greatly simplified, a sonar unit is just a combination of a speaker, microphone and stopwatch. Every fish finder "knows" that the speed of sound through water is about 4,800 feet per second. It transmits a sound pulse and then measures the time it takes for echoes to return from the pulse. Then it converts the elapsed time for each echo into distance. A built-in computer organizes all of this information and shows it on a display screen.

2. Pixels. Why are they so important?

The word "pixel" is short for "picture element". Pixels are the elements that the picture on a fish finder's screen is made from. Liquid crystal displays are really checkerboard-like grids of tiny dots (pixels) that darken individually when electricity is applied to them. A fish finder's computer forms the picture on its screen by darkening selected pixels and leaving others "blank".


The number of pixels on a unit's screen determines how much detail it can show. Remember that pixels are arranged in columns and rows. The more pixels a screen has in each vertical column, the less depth each pixel represents and therefore the higher the resolution. If a screen has 100-pixels in each column and you search for fish on the 0- to 50-foot depth range, each pixel represents 6 inches of depth (50 feet divided by 100 pixels equals ½ foot per pixel). A picture made with 6-inch building blocks isn't going to have a lot of detail. Take a Bottom Line® model with 240 pixels in each vertical column, and each pixel represents about 2½ inches of depth. Smaller changes in the bottom contour and subtle details in the structure features spring into view, giving you, the angler, better information.


The number of pixels in each horizontal row determines how long information stay on the screen before it scrolls off. This is especially important for units to show side-by-side displays of different kinds of information. Wide-screens, such as the Bottom Line Tournament NCC 6300 and the Tournament 5100, allow information to stay on the display a normal length of time even when the screen is split into separate features.


3. Fish arches. Now you see them, now you don't. Why?

The importance of seeing fish as perfect boomerang-shaped arches on the screen has been greatly exaggerated over the years. It all has to do with how fish arches are created.


Imagine sitting in an anchored boat with your fish finder turned on. Picture in your mind the transducer's cone-shaped scanning area under your boat. In order to print a perfect arch, a fish will have to enter the edge of the cone, swim directly across the middle, and pass out of the cone.


Let's say the fish holds a constant depth of 15 feet as he swims straight across the cone. The unit measures the distance to an object and starts to print out on the display; it's 15 feet below the surface of the water but probably 16 feet from the transducer. As the fish swims through the center of the cone, it passes 15 feet below the transducer. When it reaches the edge of the cone again, it's 16 feet away just before it stops printing on the screen. This causes an arch to start at 16 feet, curve up to 15 feet, then curve back down to 16 feet. The wider the cone angle, the more exaggerated the arch.


If the fish changes depth, passes through only one edge of the cone, or wonders around under the boat before swimming off, it won't print as a perfect arch.


4. Power. Why is it so important?

The output power of a fish finder's transmitter is stated in watts RMS or in watts peak-to-peak (P-P). The two terms represent different ways to advertise output power, and all you need to know to compare units that advertise different ratings is that P-P equals watts RMS times 8.


Power's importance is based on the perception that more power always produces a better echo. In reality, it is the combination of the unit's power and receiver sophistication that determines the unit's ability to find a fish and display an accurate image.

5. Which is better, wide or narrow cone angle?

Bigger is not necessarily better. A transducer with a wide cone angle scans more water as your boat moves along and can fish and structure features faster, but this advantage can also work against you. The wide cone may cover two or three important stumps on the bottom, for instance, and the lump their reading together, makes it impossible to see just the one with fish next to it.


A narrow cone zeroes in on fish and can detect small details on structure features that fish may relate to. Focusing the transducer's power into a narrow beam also concentrates the sound output, enabling it to reach greater depths. A diSadvantage to a narrow cone angel is that it scans smaller amount of water as the boat moves along.


Bottom Line strives for the best of both worlds by using a transducer with a medium cone angle and automatically manipulating receiver sensitivity and echo filtering to provide wider coverage in shallow water and narrower, more detailed coverage in deeper water. Add the advantage of multiple transducer beams that look to the side as well as straight down, each with its own separate display, and it's easy to tell where fish are in relation to your boat.

6. What is sidefinding and how does it work?

Sidefinding is more than a sonar transducer pointed horizontally to look sideways. Directing sound pulses sideways results in echos from the underside of waves and from the bottom (especially in shallow water). Bottom Line pioneered and patented the technology needed to separate the echoes returned from fish and those returning from the water's surface and lake bottom. A considerable amount of sophisticated filtering is required.

7. How do I interpret what I am seeing on my fish finder display?

Some anglers don't stop and fish areas unless they see fish on the screen; this limits their success. Areas loaded with weeds, brush and submerge trees are great spots even if no fish are obvious. Developing the skill to see fish-attracting cover is as important as being able to identify individual fish on the screen.


Any object that is different in density from water can return a sonar echo. It's the density difference that determines the strength of an object's echo. Clumps of weeds and branches of submerged trees poking into the cone angle have different densities, and return different echoes.


It's often been said that 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water. Vast areas of any body of water are barren of fish, and fishing them is a waste of time. One great benefit of fish finders is their ability to help you bypass water that contains no cover, no baitfish and no lumps on the bottom that could be game fish. Ironically, one of their great benefits is showing you where NOT to fish.

8. Why do I need a sidefinding unit?

Everyone who has searched for fish with sonar has wondered, "How many fish am I missing that are just outside my transducer's cone of coverage?" When trolling a Sidefinder® can spot a fish to your left or right and help you the most productive track to take. When casting, a Sidefinder can search water not accessible with your boat. A Sidefinder with a trolling-motor-mounted transducer can sweep the area 360 degrees around your boat for fish. When sweeping a circle around your boat, rotate the transducer slowly to give the unit more time to work. The more slowly you move the transducer, the more time the Sidefinder has to pick out the fish echos.

9. How do I tell what kind of bottom I'm marking?

Generally speaking, a hard bottom will be indicated with a thicker (top-to-bottom) contour line because it reflects most of a transducer's sound pulse. A soft, mucky bottom will absorb sound and return a weaker echo, resulting in a thinner contour line. However, a feature Bottom Line® calls GrayScale makes it easier to see the difference between hard and soft bottoms. All Bottom Line units display GrayScale to indicate very strong reflections from the bottom. The thicker (top-to-bottom) the checkering, the harder the bottom.

10. LCD vs. flashers. What's the difference and what's "real time"?

Some anglers equate using a flasher to reading a meter, and using an LCD graph unit to looking at a picture. New sonar buyers apparently prefer looking at a picture, because only a few tiny percentage of sonar units sold to sport fishermen are flashers. Many professionals agree that it takes much less time to become proficient with a graph unit than it does with a flasher. The units are really more similar than most people imagine.


The vertical columns of information that cross the screen on LCD graphs can be compared to the separate revolutions of a flasher. Instead of flashing a bulb for an instant to mark a target's depth, LCD's darken pixels in a column that remains visible until the column scrolls off the screen.


Flashers show changes in bottom depth and the depth of suspended objects as quickly as electricity can pass through the unit. In contrast, LCD units look at the last few soundings and do some averaging and filtering before displaying information from them. Years ago, this meant a perceptible and sometimes annoying time lag between when you passed over something and when the LCD put it on the screen. Today's units have much more power and the lag is all but gone. You can test a unit for lag by driving your boat over a boathouse cable in a marina. Note when your transducer passes over it and when it appears on the screen.
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#15
Putter, the best way to answer your questions is to read the Lowrance tutorial on sonars, [url "http://www.lowrance.com"]www.lowrance.com[/url]. It's pretty basic, so it's a good read no matter what brand of sonar you have. You can get detailed answers to your questions on the tutorial, but I'll give you the short answers:

Sensitivity is how much information is displayed on your screen. You want to turn it all the way up, then back it down to the point where the clutter disappears but you can still see the important details.

Grayline is a feature that helps you distinguish between a hard and soft bottom; ie rock vs mud. Mud returns a narrow gray line, rock returns a wide gray line. Set this to 33%, as per Keith Kavajecz.

Chart cursor must be mfg specific. Download the manual from [url "http://www.eaglesonar.com"]www.eaglesonar.com[/url] and read about it.

Surface clarity, is a feature that clears up surface clutter. Surface clutter is when your sonar returns a bunch of clutter that apears to be on the surface of the water, or at transducer height.

ASP is Lowrance's automatic signal processing, or something like that (I sold my Lowrance 350A long ago). Basically it makes adjustments, whether you're in manual or auto mode to give you the best view of what's below. Turn it on.

The best way to learn your sonar is to put the poles away, bust out the manual, and spend an afternoon putting around the lake and learning all its features.
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