A few weeks ago I posted about knots for connecting braid to flouro. This was the first time I have used braid. I got some great input so I figured I’d provide my thoughts now that I’ve been able to fish several days with it. Hopefully this is helpful to someone.
Knots. The general feedback was to use the double uni or Alberto knot. I tried both. The Alberto is a slimmer knot that passes guides better, so I preferred that knot when I had the knot going through the guides at all. I think this knot is a little harder to tie than the double uni unless you are in ideal conditions (no wind, steady, etc.). The double uni is a slightly stronger knot from research I have done. With either knot though, I found it best to not have it pass through guides if possible. When the knot did pass through the guides repeatedly I noticed the braid and the knot would wear quite a bit which surprised me. I ended up retying the flouro leaders on due to concern the braid would break.
Braid. I decided to try braid to allow me to cast further with jigs. Aside from that, I didn’t know what to expect. There are a few things I learned. First is line twist. Since the braid has almost no stiffness, line twist can be an issue, and if the braid folds over itself the knots are horrible and small. Trying to untie them is much more difficult than mono. Second, I heard braid did not stretch. I did notice this, however it offset the third item which is braid tends to float. With flouro, I’m used to having a direct connection to the jig or lures, meaning the flouro sinks with the jig. With the braid, I noticed the braid floated on the surface, and only sank directly below the jig. In essence, it created a big hockey stick shape from my rod to the jig. While braid doesn’t stretch, I felt the floating limited the direct contact and ability to manipulate the jig as much as I wanted. The final item is durability. Braid does not seem near as durable as mono or flouro when abrasion is possible.
Overall, I like the small diameter and ability to cast further which is good in applications, but I’m not quite sold on it being better or even the same as many other aspects of flouro. The jury is still out for me. I guess the only way to further explore this is to fish a bunch more with it. I guess there could be worse things to have to do
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I think you've analyzed it very well.
Here's a trick I learned with the Alberto...
Pinch a removable splitshot onto the braid end and then spin it around the doubled leader to form your wraps. It is super quick and forms very tight wraps. Then, instead of sticking the tag end through the leader loop to finish the knot, figure-eight it. That gives the wraps a much better buffer against sliding off the looped end, and absolutely keeps the tag end from slipping out.
Finally, a drop of super glue keeps the knot from fraying as it goes through the guides.
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Your observations are pretty solid. Can't say anything about the line to line because I rarely do that unless I'm tying it to fly line, but the other aspects, I can add to.
Distance -
When braid is new and the eyelets on the rod are clean and smooth, I've noticed really good distance. I've noticed that it doesn't take very long (a few trips for me) for that micro braid to "micro fray". The tiny, almost microscopic hairlike strands that extend beyond the core of the main line can stick to each other on the spool.
Once that starts (it only takes a little bit of use), casting distance is reduced more and more. A hard cast can actually cause a knot to form on the spool as line tries to shoot, but grabs other coils and pulls them into others, making loops that cinch tightly and cause a real mess.
Floating -
I've found this to be both annoying and advantageous, depending on the place and way I'm fishing.
Pros: If I'm jigging in water that's only 20ft or less, I can use that floating line as an indicator of sorts. Getting used to the way it looks as the jig sinks (the bead at the point it submerges moves back toward the rod) allows me to quickly notice when that jig stops moving (bottom or bite) and react from a visual cue instead of the delay in feeling a hit, then reacting.
Cons: In deeper water, it's just tedious to try and watch that line for a longer sink, plus the surface tension of the water causes the jig/lure to travel back toward the rod more than usual, instead of a more preferred downward motion.
Opening the bale helps to keep "travel-back" at bay, but you are less likely to notice a strike on the drop.
Durability -
My personal observations show braid as being super tough at first, but quickly losing integrity once it reaches a certain point in its (short) life.
Different diameters and brands have a different life cycle, but at some point, the line seems to turn brittle and start snapping. It's never good to have a hookset turn into a break-off, or a cast for that matter. I've seen this more with braid than mono.
Take regular Fireline for example: it's thin and, to me, it looks kind of flat instead of round. After some use, pinching the line together to get through a hook eye (palomar knot) usually exposes strands that are visible.
Fireline Crystal seems to be a bit better and rounder than the normal variety, or at least, that's what I've noted. Still, there's a huge difference between 4lb Crystal and 6lb Crystal in strength, shape, and performance.
I'll take the 6 if I'm buying braid, but I'd still prefer mono. The fish seem to bite my stuff more on mono as well (just not lately LOL).
In the end, I'm not a big fan of braid.
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Only started using any braid last year, and that was just on my heavier Catfish poles. I appreciated your detailed analysis, always learning something. I don't tie anything line to line so problems in the guides don't apply.
I know many on here have a different opinion, but since I'm into fishing for the enjoyment of being outside on or near the water, catching and mostly releasing what I catch, I don't get real technical about much of my gear. I want to fish, not spend lots of time tying knots every time I want to change hook types or lures. I tie my main line to a snap swivel, then use a selection of leaders I have pre-tied and on a Lindy Spool that have varied size and type hooks, and a swivel. Makes hook leader change out quicker. For trolling lures I just hook directly to the lure eye.
I used to do a lot of Bass fishing in the south, and I would have several rods all pre-set with a lure tied directly to the line. If I lost a lure or wanted to change one I would tie a new one on. But I was quite a bit younger then with more nimble hands and fingers. [sly]
Thanks for your post. Has good info. [fishon]
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You never mentioned which brand of braid you are using and what pound test. As far as casting you really need to use braid that is designed for casting. Regular braid is ideal for vertical, deep water jigging and/or trolling, but not necessarily made for casting. However, if I'm casting and jigging, like you describe, I exclusively use Berkley Nanofil Nanofil is made for casting (it casts farther...by far...than anything I've ever used before), it definitely does NOT float, it is extremely thin, and its very durable. So, I recommend you check what braid you are using and consider the way you fish most of the time. Then, select the type of braid that fits your style of fishing. For example, you would not want to use finish nails to put on asphalt shingles. Not all braid is created equal.
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Good question. I am not sure what brand it is. When I asked the shop what I should get I got what they recommended. It is 10 lb test with the equivalent of 1 lb flouro diameter. It is also white if that means anything. I will definitely look into this as I need to re-spool another reel as well. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated as I am new to this arena.
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I'm with Scott on this one, it depends on brand and type for sure... What you say doesn't sound like my experience at all and I use a lot of braid... I personally don't use braid in the really light weight size, I prefer the 20-30 lb size and I love Power Pro myself... Not so much for casting distance, but for strength and durability and longevity... It is soooooo much better than mono for these characteristics... I've never noticed an issue with floating, but I've used it so much and so long, that I'm probably just used to it... The tangling and knots you mentioned sounds like your using nanofil, which Scott likes, me not so much, but it does cast like crazy distances, but to me it has some bad behaviors.... If you want brute strength and long lasting line go for the Power pro and Walmart sells it about $5 cheaper per spool than all the other stores... Just my take and I love braid... Later Jeff
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I really like Nanofil, but it does have drawbacks. It frays easily, for one thing - especially if your rod guides are the slightest bit rough. I like it best in 6 to 10-lb test, where it casts a mile and has MUCH better feel and hookset than mono, and is a lot thinner for the same pound test. It also breaks at almost double its rating, so 6# Nano is good for at least 10 pounds of "pull".
I've used other braids in 20# and 30# on both spinning and casting outfits. Love it.
Test your rod guides with a dry Q-Tip. If a guide produces any "fluff" at all, it's a braid eater. Replace the guide or use that rod with some other line type.
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I drank the braid koolaid years ago.
Have since switched back to mono with the exception of two applications, now I just occasionally sip the koolaid.
Tieing knots to join braid to mono with one hand is a pure exercise of agony. Tieing these knots in my boat with waves and wind makes a rectum examination by a doctor with a massive hangnail feel like a day at the beach.
First application is on a walleye pole/baitcaster reel with a flippin' switch, LOVE it. The braid instantly let's me not only detect a bite but I can tell if I am in mud,rocks, or sand.
Second is on a pole I keep for long distance sneak attacks. It is spooled with 4 lb Nanofil.
I think I actually cast across Deer Creek one day and snagged the Heber Creeper....
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Hey Rocky, I agree nanofil has some real advantages, but it also has drawbacks like mentioned, but when it is working the way it should it's pretty hard to beat... I think it's one of those deals of use it right and it will treat you right kind of things.. For Shane, I can't imagine how difficult tying one handed knots would be... so I think you add a whole new dimension to this conversation that I hadn't even considered... I thought old age and bad eyes was rough for tying knots, but I can see I shouldn't complain it could be harder... Later J
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Thanks Jeff, I could have it worse also. We are all very lucky people to have the freedom to angle.
I hate line that has memory for presentation but when tieing knots one handed some memory is a blessing because it holds the loops open.
That's why braid was so difficult for me, it would just lay flat.
If an improved clinch would work with braid it wouldn't frustrate me so much, but the palomar and uni with one hand is difficult.
Oh well, it beats staying home and watching tv.
You see that big 34lb striper caught at Powell last week!
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Shane I missed that big striper last week. I’ll have to look. Hey how did your operation turn out? Obviously you got back to ice fishing before the season ended so I guess it went as well as you hoped. Always scary to go under the knife, but some times it really helps. Except for the bills that go with it. Glad they were able to fix my knee so I can still do the things that I love to do. Well good luck and catch ya next time. Jeff
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Yep, those are the ones. I have just one of the bigger yellow spools in my box I keep on the boat. Then one of the smaller green ones in each of my 2 shoulder carry bags. 1 bag for when I'm at the river for Cats (and Carp) and one bag with smaller tackle when I go to a community pond or maybe Mantua with my med-light poles looking for pan fish.
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Quote: [#0000ff]Tieing these knots in my boat with waves and wind makes a rectum examination by a doctor with a massive hangnail feel like a day at the beach[/#0000ff].
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] funniest analogy I have ever read......
I have a hard enough time tying ANY fishing line knots with 2 hands. Had a mother-in-law (now deceased) that could tie a cherry stem in a knot in her mouth......ask her once if she could do that with fishing line..............
she almost hit me........
I have been an aircraft electrician for over 40 years, and my hands and fingers are bigger than average, but they used to be quite nimble. Could tie waxed wire bundle string with one hand stuck in a small aircraft hole, without looking. Now I'm lucky if I can even hold the string with one hand.
[fishin]
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It turned out real well, thanks!
I was well enough to make it out on the last day of the urban goose hunt and shoot a limit of honks, with the nice surprise of a leg band. If you ever wanted to see comedy I crippled one bird on the mudflat so in essence it was one cripple being chased by another cripple.
If you want to go to Powell at the end of April I will have a small man-trip group camped in Halls 24-28. Throw your tent in your boat and come camp with us.
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Thanks for the invite Shane, my daughter showed me that striper on Facebook and it’s sure tempting. If I can figure something out I’ll give you a shout. Thanks Jeff
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I agree brand makes a big difference. I haven't had the time nor funds over the past few years to try out multiple different brands, but I do have some spider line spooled on a couple of reels that has been on there for years. I've never had it break on me (a couple of times I wish it had when I was snagged really bad and had to cut 25 yards of line off).
I found what looked like a really good deal on Cabela's braid line a couple years ago. Spooled a reel with it, and absolutely hate the stuff. It twists and curls way too much coming off the reel, causing horrendous knots. Funny thing is when I bought it online I ordered 1 each of 2 different colors. Well....in the shipping they sent the 1 spool of green, then they sent one box (about 6 spools) of blue. I guess I'll just keep using it for trolling and not worry much about needing to cut it from time to time.
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[quote cje04] … braid tends to float. With flouro, I’m used to having a direct connection to the jig or lures, meaning the flouro sinks with the jig. With the braid, I noticed the braid floated on the surface, and only sank directly below the jig. In essence, it created a big hockey stick shape from my rod to the jig. While braid doesn’t stretch, I felt the floating limited the direct contact and ability to manipulate the jig as much as I wanted. ...[/quote]
Regarding floating, I use Nanofil in diameters way too thin to have a floating influence as noted by BearLakeFishGuy and for my stronger braids, I use Suffix 832 which has density compensation for neutral buoyancy for a straight line to the lure by having a high density Gore fiber woven into it. That is significant in feel and quick hookset rather than having the delay of first having to pull out the curvature. I learned that from one of the fishing competition professionals at a International Sportsmen's Exposition fishing seminar a few years ago. He showed us tests of pounds of pull at the hook conducted by a scuba diver at distance with various types of lines. Lines that had either positive or negative buoyancy had a curvature to the lure and a hookset motion resulted in surprisingly little force measured. In sharp contrast, lines engineered to have neutral buoyancy had a straight to the lure profile in the water and hooksets were powerful with the force not diminished due to line curvature.
That difference was most pronounced with greater distances. With my switch to a focus on shore fishing the last few years, I need to cover a lot of water to find the fish which means I walk the shores long distances while fishing until I get to the fish. I've noticed I can cover more water area by fanning out with longer casts and have caught a lot of fish on long casts away from shore.
I also noticed that fish near shore are very aware of my presence and spook easily especially in daytime when they can also be seen and are more vulnerable to predatory birds, so I've been productive at catching fish very near shore with long casts that are near parallel to shore to be fishing at a portion of the shore way ahead of my travel for the fish to notice my lure without noticing me.
I'm still on my shore fishing focus and soon adding a new aspect to it which will be surf fishing. I already have my surf fishing equipment and all of my monofilament line, but not my heavier braid just yet. I still need to find a surf fishing guide, so anyone who knows one is invited to refer me. From my research (no experience yet and welcoming advice before I buy this expensive line in bulk), I'm favoring Jerry Brown Decade. That is a hollow core Spectra braid that is many different colors every ten yards for me to easily see the distance to the lure by just the color.
Since surf casting heavy lures or a weight and bait imparts a lot of force, a shock leader is often used that is ten pounds test for every ounce of weight being cast. For eight ounces and bait, that can be one hundred pound test and it 's necessary for it to go to a couple wraps on the spool to take the sudden shock of the distance casting, so that makes the advantage of a splice connection rather than a knot to the heavy shock leader a significant choice for it to go through the guides easily. The splice consists of the monofilament which is often of much larger diameter sliding into the hollow core braid with it gripping without the bulk of a knot by using the same principle as a Chinese finger trap.
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