(07-26-2024, 05:26 PM)TubeDude Wrote: On another thread, we were having a discussion on all of the small wipers being caught...and the reasons for them being so abundant.  I promised to address our questions to Chris Penne, of DWR, and to provide his response.  Here 'tis.   And thanks, Chris

But first, for those not familiar with the two different wipers available...the "sunshine" and the "palmetto"...here is a brief explanation.  The sunshine is a cross between a female white bass and a male striper.  The palmetto is just the opposite...a male white bass and a female striper.  Most fisheries management agencies seem to prefer the sunshine for being hardier and having a higher survival rate.  Some favor the palmetto for producing a larger fry and resulting larger adult due to starting with a larger egg.  But in the long run there have been no definitive studies showing a notable difference in one over the other. 

FROM CHRIS:

Good to hear from you, Pat.  Yeah, I've been pleased to see the reports of all those smaller wipers being caught.  It's definitely that we were able to stock more fish and not the difference in wiper crosses.  While we have been stocking some of the palmetto bass strain, so far we've been putting in such small numbers of them, we think it's unlikely they are a major contributor to all the young fish we are seeing.   There have been two recent stocking events that led to all those juvenile wipers.  First, we tried something new last year and stocked 1,000,000 wiper fry in early June.  These were the sunshine cross (white bass female x striped bass male) that we've historically stocked.  I had some concerns that going from the low water levels of the drought to the high water after runoff in 2023 was going to lead a strong increase in shad numbers as they can spawn up to four times in a season and fill that extra space much quicker than the sport fish can.  This would have been great for the fish, but would have tanked the fishing as the predator fish like wiper and walleye would have a surplus of forage and wouldn't be very interested in taking lures.
 

Historically, we haven't had great success with stocking wiper fry, but we wanted to get as many predators in there last year as we could to keep on top of the juvenile shad numbers, so fry were the best way to stock a lot of fish fast.  What was different was the timing of our stocking - traditionally we've stocked fry in mid May since that is when DWR receives all the wiper fry that we send down to Wahweap Hatchery to be raised to fingerlings.  That's great timing for Wahweap, but it's always seemed a bit early for Willard Bay.  We'd just been taking advantage of some extra 250K fry that were surplus to what we needed for Wahweap all these years and so it wasn't a big deal if we didn't get great survival on those fish - basically it was one of those purchases where it was cheaper to buy 1 million fry than to just get the 750,000 needed for Wahweap.  So this time targeted early June for stocking those fish since that is consistent with when the wipers in Willard generally come in shore and do their spawning runs and we bumped the number up to 1 million just for Willard Bay.  Well, that seemed to have worked well, at least in 2023, and we ended up seeing good survival of those fish, which were being caught last fall at around 4-6" long and then are probably a good portion of the juvenile fish folks are catching now.  That could have just been a lucky break, which happens from time to time, so we tried it again this year and will have a better idea of whether if it succeeded again this fall when we do our netting.  Until then though - if folks start catching a lot of 4-6" wipers again, let me know as that would an early sign of success for this year's fry stocking and that size of fish doesn't often show up in our survey nets.  We also were able to stock about 4,000 9-inch wipers this May and had reports from several folks that were catching those right after they were stocked.  I'm thinking both stockings of fish are about the same size right now, so it's difficult to tell which is which.  Either way, we're pleased to see we've got a strong year class of wipers added to the population.  Feel free to reach out if you or others on BFT have additional questions.


Chris

(07-26-2024, 05:51 PM)obifishkenobi Wrote: Thanks Pat and Chris for the great info, wipers 
In my opinion are the best funnest sport fish in the state and look forward to catching them in the numbers we did a decade ago. I did not start fishing Willard until 2013 so I have never experienced the wide open boils and really look forward to that.

(07-29-2024, 01:56 PM)SkunkedAgain Wrote: Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

(07-29-2024, 04:05 PM)TubeDude Wrote:

(07-29-2024, 01:56 PM)SkunkedAgain Wrote: Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

I have had "reliable" reports of others catching two fish on the same lure.  Probably not as rare as you might think, whenever you are using a lure with two or more sets of trebles.  The key factor seems to be bringing the lure through a school of competitive and actively feeding fish.  

The one other time I got two fish on the same lure...the first time it ever happened to me was while I lived in Sacramento and I was fishing in a private farm pond.  I was casting a "Mud Bug" crankbait for the abundant bass in the pond when I had an unusual hit...followed by a weird tussle.    When I got it in there were two BIG bull bluegills attached to that one lure.  I had evidently dragged it through a bluegill spawning area and it got attacked by two of the colored up male bluegills.  But, I couldn't duplicate it.  Many more casts to the same spot only produced a couple of single gills and a couple of bass.  

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have caught doubles of many species while fishing my fave tandem jig rigs.  Lots of perch doubles.  But only one double on walleyes...a couple of small ones on a tandem rig at Starvation.  


How many fish have I caught?  Impossible to even guess.  Started fishing when I was 4 and I just turned 81.  Been actively fishing...pleasure, commercial and competitively...every year since.  At one time, a few years ago, I tried to list at least all the species I had caught...and where.  The final count was just over 200 species...from almost every state in the US, from several areas in Mexico, from British Columbia and Alaska...fresh water  and salt.  I have been blessed to have been afforded the opportunities that I have taken advantage of.  Never met a fish I didn't like.  Met more than a few that did not like me...for good reason.  

Good luck in your quest to get a double on one lure.  But I humbly suggest that this is like a lot of other things...especially related to fishing.  It ain't something you can specifically target with the likelihood of instantaneous success.  Like walleye fishing for most folks...most 'eyes are caught while fishing for something else...and a lot of anglers blank when fishing strictly for walleyes.  Howsomever, we are rewarded in life in direct proportion to the number of times we place ourselves in the right position to succeed.  In other words...keep fishing a lot and it might just happen.  Thus sayeth TD.

(07-29-2024, 06:37 PM)Redrebel Wrote: With over 200 species caught, what species was your favorite to catch?

(07-29-2024, 01:56 PM)SkunkedAgain Wrote: Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

(07-29-2024, 08:31 PM)obifishkenobi Wrote:

(07-29-2024, 01:56 PM)SkunkedAgain Wrote: Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

It happens more than you may think in the early 90’s when I was a teenager there was a lake that had just come back up after a long drought at Santa Margarita Lake on the central coast of California. There was a very successful Large Mouth Spawn that created big schools. We would catch them on almost every cast using rattle traps catching two at a time on the same lure several times a day. We thought we were reel Bass Masters catching hundreds of 6-8” bass a day then the next year we where catching dozens of 12” bass a day with a couple double hook ups a day then the next year catching a dozen 15-17” bass a day every few trips getting a double on the same lure. It just takes a fairly large active school of feeding fish to make it happen. With the large schools of juvenile Wipers at Willard now your odds are good.