DWR Wiper Info 2024

[TubeDude]

On another thread, we were having a discussion on all of the small wipers being caught...and the reasons for them being so abundant.  I promised to address our questions to Chris Penne, of DWR, and to provide his response.  Here 'tis.   And thanks, Chris

But first, for those not familiar with the two different wipers available...the "sunshine" and the "palmetto"...here is a brief explanation.  The sunshine is a cross between a female white bass and a male striper.  The palmetto is just the opposite...a male white bass and a female striper.  Most fisheries management agencies seem to prefer the sunshine for being hardier and having a higher survival rate.  Some favor the palmetto for producing a larger fry and resulting larger adult due to starting with a larger egg.  But in the long run there have been no definitive studies showing a notable difference in one over the other. 

FROM CHRIS:

Good to hear from you, Pat.  Yeah, I've been pleased to see the reports of all those smaller wipers being caught.  It's definitely that we were able to stock more fish and not the difference in wiper crosses.  While we have been stocking some of the palmetto bass strain, so far we've been putting in such small numbers of them, we think it's unlikely they are a major contributor to all the young fish we are seeing.   There have been two recent stocking events that led to all those juvenile wipers.  First, we tried something new last year and stocked 1,000,000 wiper fry in early June.  These were the sunshine cross (white bass female x striped bass male) that we've historically stocked.  I had some concerns that going from the low water levels of the drought to the high water after runoff in 2023 was going to lead a strong increase in shad numbers as they can spawn up to four times in a season and fill that extra space much quicker than the sport fish can.  This would have been great for the fish, but would have tanked the fishing as the predator fish like wiper and walleye would have a surplus of forage and wouldn't be very interested in taking lures.
 

Historically, we haven't had great success with stocking wiper fry, but we wanted to get as many predators in there last year as we could to keep on top of the juvenile shad numbers, so fry were the best way to stock a lot of fish fast.  What was different was the timing of our stocking - traditionally we've stocked fry in mid May since that is when DWR receives all the wiper fry that we send down to Wahweap Hatchery to be raised to fingerlings.  That's great timing for Wahweap, but it's always seemed a bit early for Willard Bay.  We'd just been taking advantage of some extra 250K fry that were surplus to what we needed for Wahweap all these years and so it wasn't a big deal if we didn't get great survival on those fish - basically it was one of those purchases where it was cheaper to buy 1 million fry than to just get the 750,000 needed for Wahweap.  So this time targeted early June for stocking those fish since that is consistent with when the wipers in Willard generally come in shore and do their spawning runs and we bumped the number up to 1 million just for Willard Bay.  Well, that seemed to have worked well, at least in 2023, and we ended up seeing good survival of those fish, which were being caught last fall at around 4-6" long and then are probably a good portion of the juvenile fish folks are catching now.  That could have just been a lucky break, which happens from time to time, so we tried it again this year and will have a better idea of whether if it succeeded again this fall when we do our netting.  Until then though - if folks start catching a lot of 4-6" wipers again, let me know as that would an early sign of success for this year's fry stocking and that size of fish doesn't often show up in our survey nets.  We also were able to stock about 4,000 9-inch wipers this May and had reports from several folks that were catching those right after they were stocked.  I'm thinking both stockings of fish are about the same size right now, so it's difficult to tell which is which.  Either way, we're pleased to see we've got a strong year class of wipers added to the population.  Feel free to reach out if you or others on BFT have additional questions.


Chris

[obifishkenobi]

On another thread, we were having a discussion on all of the small wipers being caught...and the reasons for them being so abundant.  I promised to address our questions to Chris Penne, of DWR, and to provide his response.  Here 'tis.   And thanks, Chris

But first, for those not familiar with the two different wipers available...the "sunshine" and the "palmetto"...here is a brief explanation.  The sunshine is a cross between a female white bass and a male striper.  The palmetto is just the opposite...a male white bass and a female striper.  Most fisheries management agencies seem to prefer the sunshine for being hardier and having a higher survival rate.  Some favor the palmetto for producing a larger fry and resulting larger adult due to starting with a larger egg.  But in the long run there have been no definitive studies showing a notable difference in one over the other. 

FROM CHRIS:

Good to hear from you, Pat.  Yeah, I've been pleased to see the reports of all those smaller wipers being caught.  It's definitely that we were able to stock more fish and not the difference in wiper crosses.  While we have been stocking some of the palmetto bass strain, so far we've been putting in such small numbers of them, we think it's unlikely they are a major contributor to all the young fish we are seeing.   There have been two recent stocking events that led to all those juvenile wipers.  First, we tried something new last year and stocked 1,000,000 wiper fry in early June.  These were the sunshine cross (white bass female x striped bass male) that we've historically stocked.  I had some concerns that going from the low water levels of the drought to the high water after runoff in 2023 was going to lead a strong increase in shad numbers as they can spawn up to four times in a season and fill that extra space much quicker than the sport fish can.  This would have been great for the fish, but would have tanked the fishing as the predator fish like wiper and walleye would have a surplus of forage and wouldn't be very interested in taking lures.
 

Historically, we haven't had great success with stocking wiper fry, but we wanted to get as many predators in there last year as we could to keep on top of the juvenile shad numbers, so fry were the best way to stock a lot of fish fast.  What was different was the timing of our stocking - traditionally we've stocked fry in mid May since that is when DWR receives all the wiper fry that we send down to Wahweap Hatchery to be raised to fingerlings.  That's great timing for Wahweap, but it's always seemed a bit early for Willard Bay.  We'd just been taking advantage of some extra 250K fry that were surplus to what we needed for Wahweap all these years and so it wasn't a big deal if we didn't get great survival on those fish - basically it was one of those purchases where it was cheaper to buy 1 million fry than to just get the 750,000 needed for Wahweap.  So this time targeted early June for stocking those fish since that is consistent with when the wipers in Willard generally come in shore and do their spawning runs and we bumped the number up to 1 million just for Willard Bay.  Well, that seemed to have worked well, at least in 2023, and we ended up seeing good survival of those fish, which were being caught last fall at around 4-6" long and then are probably a good portion of the juvenile fish folks are catching now.  That could have just been a lucky break, which happens from time to time, so we tried it again this year and will have a better idea of whether if it succeeded again this fall when we do our netting.  Until then though - if folks start catching a lot of 4-6" wipers again, let me know as that would an early sign of success for this year's fry stocking and that size of fish doesn't often show up in our survey nets.  We also were able to stock about 4,000 9-inch wipers this May and had reports from several folks that were catching those right after they were stocked.  I'm thinking both stockings of fish are about the same size right now, so it's difficult to tell which is which.  Either way, we're pleased to see we've got a strong year class of wipers added to the population.  Feel free to reach out if you or others on BFT have additional questions.


Chris

Thanks Pat and Chris for the great info, wipers 
In my opinion are the best funnest sport fish in the state and look forward to catching them in the numbers we did a decade ago. I did not start fishing Willard until 2013 so I have never experienced the wide open boils and really look forward to that.

[TubeDude]

Thanks Pat and Chris for the great info, wipers 
In my opinion are the best funnest sport fish in the state and look forward to catching them in the numbers we did a decade ago. I did not start fishing Willard until 2013 so I have never experienced the wide open boils and really look forward to that.

By this fall we should have some "footlongs" showing up in boils.  But next year it is going to be gangbusters...with the current crop in the upper "teen-incher" range.  and the year after they will be "twenty somethings".  Of course the numbers will decline through angler harvest and natural attrition.  But if DWR keeps kicking up the numbers we can anticipate good things.  

I'm sure you have heard plenty of wild tales about those boils of old.  But no matter how wild and wooly they may sound, most of them are true.  It was one of those "moments in time"...for a few short years...when almost anybody could catch lots of wipers.  But it also brought out the worst in some doofus tanglers.  

One of my most hilarious moments from the past happened when I was pitching small jigs for crappies in the NE corner...where those fish were also once a lot more prevalent.  It was in the spring and a bunch of carp were rolling and thrashing over some underwater humps near me.  A couple of dimbulbs in a boat thought I had a school of boiling wipers all to myself and they decided to "help me out".  They came roaring almost right over top of my float tube and began whipping the water to a froth.  I said nothing and then they noticed that the "boiling wipers" had a strange golden tinge.  I heard them mumbling something to each other and they rocketed back out as fast as they had arrived...without catching either a wiper or a carp.  

On a more positive note, my wife and I would often launch our float tubes in the north marina.  And instead of heading out to the wide open lake, we would kick back toward the far east end of the marina.  Almost every morning there would be wipers working all along that shoreline...chasing schools of shad to the surface and then mopping up on them.  We would be all along in the marina, hooking wipers almost every cast...while the guys in boats were running all over the lake and burning lots of fuel looking for those crazy fish.  

Seriously, we had days when we each caught 20 - 30 wipers before noon.  And when the wiper schools moved in around us we had fish bumping off our legs underwater.  And simply lowering a small 3" pearl plastic shad off the end of the rod tip usually resulted in a reel-screaming bendo.  I like to fish tandem rigs...with two jigs...but we couldn't use two jigs then or we got doubles.  And even with 10 pound line, two wipers pulling against each other would usually result in losing one or both fish to breakoffs.  Yeah.  It really happened like that.  Here's a couple of pics.

[wiperhunter2]

Wow, a million wiper fry, just for Willard, that's what they use to stock years ago, that should make a huge difference on seeing more of those wiper boils from past years. Thanks for contacting Chris and getting this info Pat.

[TubeDude]

I was asked to post a pic of a wiper boil.  I usually have something in my files on just about any fishing subject.  But nothing with a boil in it.  So I snagged one off the Internet that pretty much shows what they are all about.  Note the boats circling the boils.  Too many times overanxious boaters plow right into the melee and put the fish down.  Don't do that.

[wiperhunter2]

I never thought to take a pic of a boil, I was too busy casting to them and reeling them in. I remember my arms and shoulders aching because they were so sore from reeling in so many fish and most of these wipers were 4 to 5 lbers. We even caught them trolling with the lure so close to the boat that we were catching them in the prop wash of the motor. Good times, hope to see them do that again.

[TubeDude]

I think all of us have rememberies of fishing situations we wished we had recorded on video or pics.  But, as my dad used to say..."Wish in one hand and do you know what in the other and see which gets full faster."  My mom was a bit more delicate with "Wishing doesn't make it so."

When it comes to the good ol' days of wiper fishing on Willard there were a lot of times when it woulda been cool to stop and take pictures.  But, as you observed, ya just don't think about that in the heat of the moment.  Always hindsight...which is always 20/20.

There are a couple of times I wish I had taken pics...besides of the wide open boils.  One was when TubeBabe and I were sitting in the middle of a boil back in the north marina.  A big wiper actually leaped from the water and lit right in her lap...in her float tube.  Actually smacked her in the face with it's tail...and then flopped back over the side into the water before she could even react.  Of course I couldn't have anticipated that and had the camera ready.  But the image is still embedded in my mental fishing album.

Another moment that might have made a good pic was when I was casting and retrieving one of the currently fave Producer lures into a boil.  I had a smack and a hookup.  But shortly after I started the pump and reel routine, my rod loaded up and took a much deeper bend...and I had a lot more weight on the end.  I was using a stout rod and had good braid line so I was not in great danger of breaking off.  But it was a few minutes before I got the TWO hooked wipers in to the net.  One had grabbed one of the set of trebles and then then other tried to take it away and got the other set of trebles.  

I have caught doubles of other species...like two small largemouths...on the same lure.  But that was the only time I have got two big wipers on the same lure.  Although I have caught several doubles while pitching a tandem jig rig.  However, I am usually using lighter line and fishing for smaller species when the two wipers come to play and I usually lose one or both before getting them to the net.

Back on July 9th of this year I got a double on the over-abundant small wipers.  I sent them both back to grow a bit and hope for a rematch maybe next year.

[wiperhunter2]

Wow, I can't imagine catching two of those bigger wipers on one lure, bet it was quite a battle, lucky you were using braid. Having a wiper drop right in your lap, must have been a shocking experience and very big surprise for TB.

[SkunkedAgain]

Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years? Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one... Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

[TubeDude]

Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

I have had "reliable" reports of others catching two fish on the same lure.  Probably not as rare as you might think, whenever you are using a lure with two or more sets of trebles.  The key factor seems to be bringing the lure through a school of competitive and actively feeding fish.  

The one other time I got two fish on the same lure...the first time it ever happened to me was while I lived in Sacramento and I was fishing in a private farm pond.  I was casting a "Mud Bug" crankbait for the abundant bass in the pond when I had an unusual hit...followed by a weird tussle.    When I got it in there were two BIG bull bluegills attached to that one lure.  I had evidently dragged it through a bluegill spawning area and it got attacked by two of the colored up male bluegills.  But, I couldn't duplicate it.  Many more casts to the same spot only produced a couple of single gills and a couple of bass.  

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have caught doubles of many species while fishing my fave tandem jig rigs.  Lots of perch doubles.  But only one double on walleyes...a couple of small ones on a tandem rig at Starvation.  


How many fish have I caught?  Impossible to even guess.  Started fishing when I was 4 and I just turned 81.  Been actively fishing...pleasure, commercial and competitively...every year since.  At one time, a few years ago, I tried to list at least all the species I had caught...and where.  The final count was just over 200 species...from almost every state in the US, from several areas in Mexico, from British Columbia and Alaska...fresh water  and salt.  I have been blessed to have been afforded the opportunities that I have taken advantage of.  Never met a fish I didn't like.  Met more than a few that did not like me...for good reason.  

Good luck in your quest to get a double on one lure.  But I humbly suggest that this is like a lot of other things...especially related to fishing.  It ain't something you can specifically target with the likelihood of instantaneous success.  Like walleye fishing for most folks...most 'eyes are caught while fishing for something else...and a lot of anglers blank when fishing strictly for walleyes.  Howsomever, we are rewarded in life in direct proportion to the number of times we place ourselves in the right position to succeed.  In other words...keep fishing a lot and it might just happen.  Thus sayeth TD.

[Redrebel]

Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

I have had "reliable" reports of others catching two fish on the same lure.  Probably not as rare as you might think, whenever you are using a lure with two or more sets of trebles.  The key factor seems to be bringing the lure through a school of competitive and actively feeding fish.  

The one other time I got two fish on the same lure...the first time it ever happened to me was while I lived in Sacramento and I was fishing in a private farm pond.  I was casting a "Mud Bug" crankbait for the abundant bass in the pond when I had an unusual hit...followed by a weird tussle.    When I got it in there were two BIG bull bluegills attached to that one lure.  I had evidently dragged it through a bluegill spawning area and it got attacked by two of the colored up male bluegills.  But, I couldn't duplicate it.  Many more casts to the same spot only produced a couple of single gills and a couple of bass.  

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have caught doubles of many species while fishing my fave tandem jig rigs.  Lots of perch doubles.  But only one double on walleyes...a couple of small ones on a tandem rig at Starvation.  


How many fish have I caught?  Impossible to even guess.  Started fishing when I was 4 and I just turned 81.  Been actively fishing...pleasure, commercial and competitively...every year since.  At one time, a few years ago, I tried to list at least all the species I had caught...and where.  The final count was just over 200 species...from almost every state in the US, from several areas in Mexico, from British Columbia and Alaska...fresh water  and salt.  I have been blessed to have been afforded the opportunities that I have taken advantage of.  Never met a fish I didn't like.  Met more than a few that did not like me...for good reason.  

Good luck in your quest to get a double on one lure.  But I humbly suggest that this is like a lot of other things...especially related to fishing.  It ain't something you can specifically target with the likelihood of instantaneous success.  Like walleye fishing for most folks...most 'eyes are caught while fishing for something else...and a lot of anglers blank when fishing strictly for walleyes.  Howsomever, we are rewarded in life in direct proportion to the number of times we place ourselves in the right position to succeed.  In other words...keep fishing a lot and it might just happen.  Thus sayeth TD.

With over 200 species caught, what species was your favorite to catch?

[SkunkedAgain]

I'm pretty sure you are correct that it will never happen if I'm trying to do it, but hope someday that lightening happens... Definitely not something that happens to everyone... Good thing to have accomplished if you ever play two truths and a lie...

[TubeDude]

With over 200 species caught, what species was your favorite to catch?

Not trying to be cutesy wootsy, but all of them were my favorites...at the time I caught them.  

On a more serious level, I would have to break it down into subcategories...and then codgertate a lot to be able to assign levels of favoritism.  I have caught huge sharks and some big salt water fish...like marlin, sailfish and swordfish...and tuna.  But I still often return in my rememberies to the wondrous days of my youth...walking stream banks in Idaho and fishing for small wild trout.   And in my adult years I spent a whole lotta time trekking in the high mountains of the west...seeking out remote lakes and streams that still hold those purty little things.

I have always enjoyed waving a fairy wand for bluegills...or pulling perch through a hole in the ice.  Some of my greatest fishing enjoyment is provided by the less glamorous species...like catfish.  Although I will lower myself to fish for trout once in a while (snicker, snicker).

In short, I love any fish that wants to scratch my itch at the time I itch.   

Tough question.  A good one for all anglers to ask themselves from time to time...and to try to be honest in answering themselves.

[obifishkenobi]

Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

It happens more than you may think in the early 90’s when I was a teenager there was a lake that had just come back up after a long drought at Santa Margarita Lake on the central coast of California. There was a very successful Large Mouth Spawn that created big schools. We would catch them on almost every cast using rattle traps catching two at a time on the same lure several times a day. We thought we were reel Bass Masters catching hundreds of 6-8” bass a day then the next year we where catching dozens of 12” bass a day with a couple double hook ups a day then the next year catching a dozen 15-17” bass a day every few trips getting a double on the same lure. It just takes a fairly large active school of feeding fish to make it happen. With the large schools of juvenile Wipers at Willard now your odds are good.

[TubeDude]

Pat, that just gave me a new goal, I've never even thought you could catch two fish on the same lure... That is incredible, now I know I need to put more time on the water to have a chance to do that... Pretty cool story there, almost as cool as the flying fish... Guess I have snagged two cisco at a time on the same treble hook, but that's not the same as mouth hooking the fish.. I'll bet that takes a lot of hook ups to have that happen... Did you ever try to put a number on the fish you have caught over the years?  Not that I'm trying to figure odds of that happening, but it's probably a million to one...  Thanks for getting Chris to provide the update, always fun to know more... Thanks Jeff

It happens more than you may think in the early 90’s when I was a teenager there was a lake that had just come back up after a long drought at Santa Margarita Lake on the central coast of California. There was a very successful Large Mouth Spawn that created big schools. We would catch them on almost every cast using rattle traps catching two at a time on the same lure several times a day. We thought we were reel Bass Masters catching hundreds of 6-8” bass a day then the next year we where catching dozens of 12” bass a day with a couple double hook ups a day then the next year catching a dozen 15-17” bass a day every few trips getting a double on the same lure. It just takes a fairly large active school of feeding fish to make it happen. With the large schools of juvenile Wipers at Willard now your odds are good.

I used to wander up that way...to Santa Margarita...or San Antonio when I lived in Sacramento.  But I was partial to the plentiful and big white bass in Nacimiento at that time.  If I wanted largies I just had to pop over the hill to Cachuma or down a few miles to Lake Casitas near Ojai.  Got some bigguns there.  

Also used to use the old RatLTraps a lot. Closest thing ever to an "idiot bait".  Even I could catch fish on it by just chunkin' and windin'.  They also worked great for inshore fishing along the Sea of Cortez.  Except everything down there has teeth and after a few fish there wasn't any paint or silver finish left on the pale plastic blank.  But those wacky fish would still eat them.  Never caught doubles there though.