Pop and drop syndrome

[SkunkedAgain]

So last night I went out bank fishing at 8:30. I know that’s go home time not start time,but I’m taking what time I can get lately. Got a bullhead and 17” channel to save the skunk and then the syndrome set in. I’d get a good solid bite followed by the bobber taking off, I use a bait feeder reel so they can run, anyway I’d pick up my pole and wait for tension to set the hook and nothing. This happened like 8 times over the night including the big splash that the cats make in shallow water when they bust you. Anyway I have no idea what I’m doing wrong all of a sudden, but the cats are onto me and are not making more than a quick pop and drop. I did have my second rod out which is Carolina rigged and I noticed the line taking off, no hit just line movement. So I set that hook and pulled in a nice 21.5” walleye, but I never caught another cat. Any suggestions? I am using octopus style hooks and have my hook tips open to be able to set the hook. The rig has worked fine all season, but the last couple trips the fish are onto me. Anyway seems like I’ve had this happen before and then it just goes away, is there a time when the fish get tentative and am I the only one that has this happen?  Just trying to figure things out. Thanks Jeff

[catchinon]

I have had days while drifting on UL when I only hooked up maybe a third of all the fish that bent my pole. It's a weird feeling when your rod is just dancing and then when you start to lift it out of the holder you feel nothing but slack. I have no answers for you but you might want to try different hooks. Real circle hooks versus plain octopus style. Fligs? Bigger? Smaller? I suspect that they aren't really getting the bait in their mouths all the way but are lipping it. Smaller bait? Tandem hooks? Since your fishing time is so limited you might try making a few of these different setups on leaders ahead of time. Just my 2 cents. Oh, and I have had times when it seemed I couldn't hook fish up and then found out that my hook was dull or had a bent point.

[RockyRaab2]

My amateur advice would be to stop bending the hook points. The folks who design them know what they're doing, and they test them extensively to get the penetration geometry just right. If you look at a circle hook, for example, you'd swear those things couldn't EVER hook a fish - yet they are extremely effective.

I have noticed that when using light wire crappie jigs, if the hook point gets bent open a bit, my hookup ratio plummets. That's why I gave the advice above.

[PACMEN]

My amateur advice would be to stop bending the hook points. The folks who design them know what they're doing, and they test them extensively to get the penetration geometry just right. If you look at a circle hook, for example, you'd swear those things couldn't EVER hook a fish - yet they are extremely effective.

I have noticed that when using light wire crappie jigs, if the hook point gets bent open a bit, my hookup ratio plummets. That's why I gave the advice above.

When he wrote that he has the hook tips open I think he was saying that he has the point exposed.
When I read the post I thought he was saying he was bending they hooks also but I figured he must of meant exposed.

[TubeDude]

There can be several variables:  species and size of fish, activity mode of fish (active, neutral, negative), type and quality of the bait, etc.  When larger fish are active and hungry they gulp and go...with little problem getting hookups.  Smaller fish peck at the bait and finicky fish might pick it up and drop it when they feel anything that is not quite right.

If you are fishing below a bobber, the fish are going to feel that resistance.  And if they are anything but active and hungry they will not totally commit...just swimming around with the bait held loosely in their mouths.  I often fish without a bobber...and an open bail...to allow biters to commit without feeling a lot of back pressure.  And there are still times they drop the bait before I can get a hook set.

One thing I discovered about the open bail system is that after giving the fish some time,  you need to close the bail, point the rod at the fish and let them pull the line tight as they swim away before whacking them.  Setting the hook while the fish is doing anything else has a much greater chance of simply pulling the bait out of their mouths.  Waiting until they have a good hold of the bait and are moving away tends to pull the hook into the corner of the mouth...with or without a circle hook.

I suspect that some of your aggravators are probably just bullheads.  They are notorious for hitting big but catching small.  They will chomp a large bait, even if they can't easily get it all in their mouths.  There have been a bunch of times when bullheads keep ruining the larger baits I am fishing for big channels.  Sometimes they even mess up and have the hook in their mouths when I pop them.

[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks you guys, sorry my reply function isn't working this morning, but wanted to let you know that I appreciate your thoughts and replies... Pacman was correct I did mean that my hook tip wasn't covered with bait, so it should be able to be set.. My flig is getting pretty tired, I've caught a ton of cats on it, so the tip could very likely be dull.... The bobbers may be the issue, but I sure like using a bobber when its hard to keep my line tight to see a bite... Might be the fish are more tentative lately and that slight resistance is tipping them off... I have been catching more fish on the Carolina rig the last two trips where before it was all bobber bites... I have had the mudder problems with pop and drops, but it's happened to me often enough that I recognize them now. What I was talking about is channels doing this to me... Many of them spook in a big wake or a big tail flip so I'm having visual confirmation that the channel busted me... Maybe this is the time of year that I need to start drifting instead of still fishing, so they have to make up their minds quick and hit or leave it... I may try that next trip...Thanks for all the great info.. Jeff

[catchinon]

You know I like to play with words. I've taken to calling it Hit, Spit, and Split. That would be HSS for those who like acronyms.

[SkunkedAgain]

That would totally cover it.... I'm looking for the grab, gulp and reel screaming run or the ggrsr.... But I got to soak some bait to have one of those... Later Jeff

[Piscophilic]

I finally had a few minutes to read today and saw your post. As I read, the first flag for me was also the bobber. I have seen lots of times where a fish hit aggressively and then took off and spit the bait. Sometimes even going air born and all before I could get the line tight to to set the hook. My second guess would be what I call bad luck, but probably is more related to tentative feeding behavior. 
 
I call it bad luck because almost all trips have a few hits that make you think "Oh goody, a big one!"  The rod starts to load and sometimes the drag even starts to sing and then the line goes slack. I assume that means the cat bit down hard on the bait but missed getting the point, lucky kitty. 
 
Some trips though the stars all seem to line up right (for the cats) and I will get 8 or 10 of those in a row. Sometimes I get so frustrated I start changing out my hooks or using smaller baits or whatever I can think of only to find that, in the end, the streak ends all by itself and things go back to normal. I could call is sort of a statistical aberration, but the term "bad luck" suits me better.
 
Whatever it is I hope it goes away or you get it fixed soon so you can get back to the fun part!

[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks Jim, I'm hoping the same thing... Haven't been back out since to try again, but rumor has it, I may find some water time this weekend... Probably going to be Newton, so don't expect any kitties of size... Hope to find a tiger to tangle with though... Be fun to get a little time on the water though.. Thanks for the advice... Jeff

[TubeDude]

Bait size can be an issue.  I remember a day at the Knolls when I was soaking large chunks of carp meat...hoping for big cats.  And I was getting plenty of "inquiries".  However, the fish were doing what you hate...packing the bait around for a few seconds and then not getting hooked.  And I knew by the general feel of things that the fish were of decent size.  Just for grins I put a fairly small piece of bait on the hook and tossed it back out.  Every take after that resulted in a positive hookup.  The fish were able to get the entire bait (and hook) inside their mouths and that definitely increased the percentages in my favor.

[RockyRaab2]

Scientists also tell us that fish can detect the slightest trace of chemicals from your hands: sunscreen, gasoline, motor oil, insect spray, maybe even your jerky snack. And they reject most of those instantly - pop and drop or hit and spit.

[2knots]

If their not being finicky and fully committed to taking the bait I’d Sharpen the hooks, other thing I’d look at if your not using circle hooks but octopus or similar style is the point is in line with the shank, bend the hook so that the point is not in line with the shank. Easiest way is to cut about a 1/2’ deep saw cut through a board, place the point side of the hook into the saw grove with shank parallel to the board and push the eye to one side or the other to create the offset.it doesn’t need to be a lot.