Discussion about perch in Fish Lake

[one8sevenn]

I have an idea, Let's talk to the DWR and get the perch limit raised to no limit. I will gladly take 300-500 pounds of perch out of that lake every year. I may spend a day or two cleaning my catch, but for 6 months of perch meat. I like it.
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[The_Red_Leaker]

[quote PBH]I left my de-coder ring at home. So, I was attempting to figure out what it was you were saying. I also re-read your post, and am struggling to understand what it is you are asking for.[/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong bassrods but, I think you are asking for some variety and equity.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/fishing/sto...?year=2012

I cannot find perch, walleye, small mouth, crappie, etc. Two small reservoirs did get some large mouth and it looks like they are putting wipers in a few more spots but if you don't fish for trout you basically get to rely on mother nature and the fishes own ability to reproduce in hopes of keeping a population to manage.
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[The_Red_Leaker]

[quote CoyoteSpinner]

But - really - it's all a bunch of bull. You guys have the WRONG idea about "fish" lake. It's not about the fish at all!!!
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Fishlake does offer a surf and turf menu.....attached my turf from a couple years back and it was tasty, looks good on the wall too[].
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[PBH]

[quote The_Red_Leaker]
I think you are asking for some variety and equity.

I cannot find perch, walleye, small mouth, crappie, etc.[/quote]

Stocking is only 1 tool used in fisheries management. It is NOT the only tool.

Variety? It is FACT that Utah has more water with "warm water" species than it does water with "trout" species. Fact.

Where do you think places like Minersville, Otter Creek, and Piute got their smb populations started from? Where do you think Newcastle got its smb population started from? Do you not consider these places "hatcheries" that fish are used to "stock" other reservoirs? What about Leigh Hill Pond? Where did all those bass in that lake come from?

Whether you see it on the stocking report or not, our fisheries managers DO manage warm water fisheries in this state. We have some pretty amazing warm water fisheries -- even without supplemental stocking from "traditional" hatcheries.

A question: What "bass" lakes need supplemental stocking from a hatchery?
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[DKStroutfitter]

Willard Bay.
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[PBH]

[quote DKStroutfitter]Willard Bay.[/quote]

So, you'd like to see additional predators stocked into a system that already lacks the necessary amount of prey to sustain healthy populations of predators?

Makes sense. I'm for it.
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[DKStroutfitter]

"A question: What "bass" lakes need supplemental stocking from a hatchery?"
This was your question.

My answer is that Willard has to be stocked or the Wiper will simply disappear.
Or don't you think that Wiper are Bass?
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[Fishrmn]

[quote PBH]So, you'd like to see additional predators stocked into a system that already lacks the necessary amount of prey to sustain healthy populations of predators?[/quote]

I always thought that the Gizzard Shad were providing enough forage for all of the predators in Willard.
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[PBH]

[quote DKStroutfitter]
My answer is that Willard has to be stocked or the Wiper will simply disappear.
Or don't you think that Wiper are Bass?[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. My apologies. Wipers obviously need supplemental stocking, and already DO get stocked by the DWR from hatcheries. Of course, this depends upon wiper production and availability.

The question I asked was in regards to Red Leaker, who complained about Utah's managment of species that are "left to mother nature" -- a reference more directed to LMB, SMB, walleye, perch, etc. Not wipers.

While Willard may very well have the gizzard shad population to support the predators in that water -- does Willard need supplemental stocking of LMB? I highly doubt it.
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[DKStroutfitter]

I don't know if stocking more LMB would help Willard or not.
They are doing alright on their own but there are not a lot of them caught at Willard. But then I don't know how many anglers target them.

For a big bath tub, Willard does OK on it's own, with the exception of the Wiper.
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[PBH]

[quote DKStroutfitter]
For a big bath tub, Willard does OK on it's own...[/quote]

Most "warm water" fisheries in Utah do [ok on their own]. Which is EXACTLY why the need for supplement stocking of many of these fish (LMB, SMB, walleye, perch, pike, bluegill, etc.) is unnecessary. This doesn't mean (as red leaf and bassrodder seem to forget) that the UDWR doesn't "manage" those fisheries.
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[The_Red_Leaker]

[quote PBH][quote DKStroutfitter]
For a big bath tub, Willard does OK on it's own...[/quote]

Most "warm water" fisheries in Utah do [ok on their own]. Which is EXACTLY why the need for supplement stocking of many of these fish (LMB, SMB, walleye, perch, pike, bluegill, etc.) is unnecessary. This doesn't mean (as red leaf and bassrodder seem to forget) that the UDWR doesn't "manage" those fisheries.[/quote]

[quote PBH][The question I asked was in regards to Red Leaker, who complained about Utah's managment of species that are "left to mother nature" -- a reference more directed to LMB, SMB, walleye, perch, etc. Not wipers.

While Willard may very well have the gizzard shad population to support the predators in that water -- does Willard need supplemental stocking of LMB? I highly doubt it.[/quote]

First, I am not "complaining" just making a comment/observation from the available stocking information. If fish are transferred from one water to another are they not included in the stocking report? If they are not then maybe they should be so that people are educated and aware.

Second, I didn't read anywhere that bassrods or myself inferred that the UDWR doesn't manage our "warm water" fisheries. Obviously if referring to their stocking reports, I am fully aware of their management.

Third, I have yet to hear of or see LMB come out of Willard and I have put many hours on that lake; if they are in there the population could use help. I have however caught many SMB bass out of there.

Fourth, as to the question of what "bass" lakes need help with stocking, it is my opinion that both Deer Creek and Jordanelle could use bolstering in LMB. Whereas the SMB are overpopulated and mostly (not all) stunted (again my opinion) in Deer Creek, the population in Jordanelle is awesome and (again my opinion) world class. Jordanelle SMB are an example of DWR success in managing a water. Correct me if I am wrong but I beleive that the SMB that were stocked into Jordanelle were for lack of a better term, a coldwater "strain". Would putting this strain into Strawberry be a crazy thought? Yes, I know there are some already in there more than likely from the bozos. I also have thoughts on walleye being more available to anglers in certain waters.

Lastly, let me be clear here. I am in no way bashing the DWR nor trout fisherman. I am however offering views and thoughts for discussion; some I agree with and some I don't but I will argue anyway; hopefully opening up minds and educating both myself and others.
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[Fishrmn]

I'd wager that you wouldn't catch very many more Large Mouth Bass out of Willard and Deer Creek even if the UDWR planted them every month. There isn't a whole lot of habitat for LMB in either reservoir that isn't already being occupied by Small Mouth Bass.
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[fishnutts]

First i would Like to say thanks for everyone's point of view (not really, i couldn't care less) Fish for what ever yanks your chain, and where ever you can get your chain yanked by the fish your looking for. This horse has been beat to a puree. I am all for angler education ( i and i do believe there are some very educated anglers here), but i think this has evolved into ones ego's or personal preference, let it go, or propose your ideas through the proper channels. It just pisses me off to see this thing at the top of the post every day ( i am going to bump it to the top once again, hopefully it will die). We have all seen lakes here in Utah come and go, for various reasons. Why don't you grab your rods and go fishing, i am sure you will feel a whole lot better.
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[The_Red_Leaker]

Yea, you're probably right.[]
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[PIKEMAN99]

AMEN brother
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[PBH]

[quote The_Red_Leaker]Correct me if I am wrong but I beleive that the SMB that were stocked into Jordanelle were for lack of a better term, a coldwater "strain". Would putting this strain into Strawberry be a crazy thought? [/quote]

there is not "coldwater strain" of SMB. Jordanelle close to the "max" on where SMB can survive.

It all comes down to the summer growth. SMB need water temperatures to reach the mid 50's before spawning occurs. Obviously, at higher elevations this water temperature increase takes longer, and thus ends with a shorter summer. So, the spawn is delayed (Strawberry reservoir is the perfect example), thus delaying the time when fry hatch. If fry hatch later in the summer, they have a shorter "window" to grow to a size that would allow them to survive the winter. Fall / winter arrive sooner at higher elevations (Strawberry) and thus further shorten that "window" of growth.

The issue at Strawberry isn't that adult SMB can't survive, it's that young of the year cannot make it through their first winter.


(see, this thread isn't all ego!)

As for stocking LMB at Jordanelle -- that's a question for the Central Region managers. But, my opinion is two-fold:
1. Just like SMB at Strawberry, I don't think LMB would do well at Jordanelle due to season lenghts.
2. If SMB are "stunted" and over-populated, doesn't that mean that the "bucket" is already full? But, habitat is the key -- Utah just plain doesn't have good LMB habitat (flooded vegetation). Again, my opinion.


(bumped back to the top!)
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[doggonefishin]

RE "1. Just like SMB at Strawberry, I don't think LMB would do well at Jordanelle due to season lenghts.
2. If SMB are "stunted" and over-populated, doesn't that mean that the "bucket" is already full? But, habitat is the key -- Utah just plain doesn't have good LMB habitat (flooded vegetation). Again, my opinion. "


My opinion also.

As many here know, LMB have been in Jordanelle from the beginning. There are even a few bigguns in there. However, it is no accident that the smallies have thrived there while LMB have continued to persist, but have hardly thrived. Stocking more would likely only have a very temporary effect and the population would quickly return to its prior levels. Additionally, the ideal habitat for LMB at Jordanelle is steadily degrading and will continue to disappear. It would be a tough call to justify the cost of the stocking.

Also, right now, Jordanelle has problems with too many small smallies and too few big ones, along with concerns about forage. Dumping in more small predators probably won't help that situation.

Red Leaker, the Central biologists/managers would be happy to hear you out if you have questions or comments. They even responded to me.

I guess I bumped it up again.
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[BigBuck3333]

ya
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