Porcupine closure

[kyLURE]

Can someone help clarify the regs. I'm trying to determine when/ if the lake closes to fishing. "The east fork of the little bear closes from the reservoir up to the headwaters on the 15 of aug, but from that, I wouldn't think it means the lake too. That is the only info I could find in the proclamation.
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[wiperhunter2]

In years past that meant from that date on, you could not keep any pink colored salmon. I think you can fish for them but you just can not keep them but I would call the DWR to make sure, it could have changed because it is worded different now.
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[fishnutts]

look at page 18 of the guidebook, they changed the dates on this a few years back I believe. Under Dailey limits for Kokanee.(sept 10 thru nov. 30th statewide)
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[kyLURE]

That makes more sense, thanks for pointing that out. I think ill call them before I head up there just to double check.
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[dubob]

[#800000][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I don't know why you are . It is very plain to me.[/size][/font][/#800000]
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East Fork Little Bear River and its tributaries,
Cache County
From Porcupine Reservoir upstream to the
headwaters.
• CLOSED Aug. 15 through 6 a.m. on the
last Saturday of September.
East Fork Little Bear River, Cache County
From Porcupine Dam downstream to the Avon-
Paradise road (SR-165), second stream crossing
below reservoir.
• Limit 2 trout and salmon (a combined
total).
• Artificial flies and lures only.

The stream above and below the reservoir have some restrictions. The reservoir itself does NOT have any restrictions other than the state wide restriction as stated below.

Kokanee salmon
(Anglers may not possess kokanee
salmon at any waterbody
statewide from Sept. 10 through
Nov. 30.)

Nowhere that I could find in the guidebook does it prevent anybody from possessing kokanee after they start turning red. Most people don't because they think the flesh is somehow not good to eat. Red colored salmon will pressure can and eat every bit as good as all silver salmon. Hundreds of thousands of native Alaskans will tell you the same thing. But it's your fish and you can make up your own mind in that regard. I will can and eat red kokanee in a heartbeat without a second thought about it.
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[wiperhunter2]

This statement is what is not clear,"From Porcupine Reservoir upstream to the
headwaters.
• CLOSED Aug. 15 through 6 a.m. on the
last Saturday of September. "
If you read that statement alone, it sounds like the entire lake is closed to fishing. And it does say the lake and the river, "From Porcupine Reservoir upstream to the headwaters." Of course we know they are referring to the salmon and the river above the lake with those dates but it is far from clear, IMO. What it should say is, CLOSED Aug. 15 through 6 a.m. on the last Saturday of September, to the possession of red salmon. That is what it use to say. Maybe you are thinking they are saying just upstream from the lake but the way I read it, they are including the lake with that statement. I did call the DWR about this but the lady I spoke with said she was not sure and said I should contact Chris Penne, which I did. I will post what he says. I know when you look at just porcupine it only has the limits and to see east fork little bear river and that were it say closed but the wording could be better.
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[dubob]

[quote wiperhunter2]Maybe you are thinking they are saying just upstream from the lake but the way I read it, they are including the lake with that statement.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]That is exactly how I interpret it. If they had wanted to include the reservoir they would have said 'including the reservoir.' They did not. They also did not define at what point the reservoir ends and the stream begins so there is a small grey area as to what/where that boundary is. I will consider the reservoir as open year round and am not about that point at all. I await your reply from Chris and will gladly admit to being wrong if he says otherwise. [/size][/#800000][/font]
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[catchinon]

Don't assume they always say what they mean. You could review the string I started about whether it is legal to fish with suckers (not June) in Utah Lake. TD got the take from the local officers which contradicted what I was told at the main SLC office. And the fact that people are wondering about the meaning of the words as written show that they are, indeed, ambiguous. Just saying.
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[dubob]

[#800000][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Curt,[/size][/font][/#800000]
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[#800000][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Any feedback from Chris yet?
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[wiperhunter2]

None, I'll try again on Monday, this time I'll try and call him. I told him about this thread, so either he is too busy to respond or he is on vacation[:/].
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[kyLURE]

Thanks for helping in this!!
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[wiperhunter2]

No problem, hopefully, I'll get an answer for you.
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[PACKFAN]

Don't native Alaskans also eat blubber?[shocked]
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[fishnutts]

Pretty clear to me, actually kind of obvious, just read the first sentence. This closure has nothing to do with the reservoir.

East Fork Little Bear River and its tributaries,
Cache County

if that is not enough read the other clarifying sentences.

From Porcupine Reservoir upstream to the
headwaters.


East Fork Little Bear River, Cache County
From Porcupine Dam downstream to the Avon-
Paradise road (SR-165), second stream crossing
below reservoir.

• CLOSED Aug. 15 through 6 a.m. on the
last Saturday of September.
East Fork Little Bear River, Cache County
From Porcupine Dam downstream to the Avon-
Paradise road (SR-165), second stream crossing
below reservoir.
• Limit 2 trout and salmon (a combined
total).
• Artificial flies and lures only.

I am so confident in my interpretation of the proclamation, that I fished Kokanee yesterday, they were decent size, bigger than the dinks, that we were getting earlier in the year. Of coarse I did put a sign in my truck windshield after I launched the boat and parked the Truck, that read.

"Dear DWR hope you are having a good day, I am fishing Kokanee today, I plan on keeping my limit, weather they are silver, slightly pink or completely red. If you have a problem with that, my name is Curt, you can reach me at BIG FISH Tackle,
I go by the name of Wiperhunter2, I am a moderator there. Have a nice day."


Just Kidding Curt, we love ya []
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[wiperhunter2]

LOL, good one there. To me they should not have put that part in the rules under Porcupine, where it says See the East Fork Little Bear River, why would the two be listed together, does not seem too clear to me but I get where you and Bob are coming from. The bottom line is this, it should not be worded the way it is, when it says, " Porcupine Reservoir upstream to the headwaters", Porcupine Reservoir is the lake itself, it does not say "starting where the river enters the lake upstream". For the river below the lake it is clear, it says "From Porcupine Dam downstream to the Avon-
Paradise road', that is clear. The good news is I got a reply from Chris Penne, here is what he said.
"Good point. There's definitely some room for improvement here. One thing you've made me notice is that there are some inconsistencies in dates since there were some statewide kokanee salmon protection dates implemented in the guidebook a couple years ago. In the guidebook, kokanee salmon are now listed as separate from trout in the statewide daily limits table and there is an extra description with kokanee stating that "anglers may not possess kokanee salmon from Sept. 10 through Nov. 30". That doesn't cover the whole length of the spawn at Porcupine, but it covers most of it including the peak of the spawn. The statewide protection dates were put in place in an effort to standardize kokanee regulations and protections throughout the state. To still have protected dates listed for the East Fork of the Little Bear is redundant and may not even be necessary. Unless people think protecting that early part of the spawn is critical, my inclination is to get rid of the regulation on the East Fork of the Little Bear all together. I would think this would eliminate some confusion on the dates fish are protected. Having watched the kokanee in Porcupine for several years, it seems to me they are so high in numbers they probably don't need any extra protection compared to other populations in the state. Those are just my thoughts and I'm certainly open to other suggestions.
It was definitely saying the East Fork of the Little Bear was closed to fishing. I looked in an old guidebook from 2008 and it said the same thing even back then, so apparently that language hasn't changed. It never explicitly said Porcupine Reservoir was closed to fishing, but the wording wasn't great, so I can see how people might interpret it that way. I think the intent of those who wrote it must have been to use Porcupine Reservoir as a way to reference the river mouth in order to signify where the river starts above the reservoir. It definitely isn't a great description. I'm going to note our discussion and will bring it up when we are making edits for the next guidebook. As you're probably aware, it's the Wildlife Board that ultimately makes the rules and approves the language in the guidebook. That said, removing the East Fork of the Little Bear from the list of special regulations should be a pretty easy sell. Thanks for the feedback, and yes, feel free to post on BFT.

Chris"
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[kyLURE]

Thanks a bunch Curt! This was the way i was leaning but i wasn't sure, plus I had co-workers insisting the lake closed aug 15th. Im tempted to drop it and allow him to believe it's closed, thus lessening the fishing pressure, lol. Thanks again everyone
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[dubob]

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[PACKFAN]

You're turning into a rebel Tim.[]
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[fishnutts]

Gale,
Actually I been cranky the last couple of years, don't know what it is exactly, but I am thinking I am turning into a grouchy old man.[]
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