Kokanee Fishing: Does Leader Length Matter?

[liketrolling]

Kokanee Fishing: Does Leader Length Matter?
Yes and no don't be afraid to use 18" leader, A 24" leader has even worked for me using a Squid with a spinner on it.

Tactics to Catch More Kokanee this Spring
Slow it Down, Downsize, Use Bite Stimulants, Change Colour.
We hear this all the time when it comes to Kokanee fishing but yet, many anglers tend to get stuck in the same old rut of just using their old faithful lures that produced last summer. Pinks, reds, and oranges are by far some of the most popular colours for Kokanee fishing but don’t get trapped using just these patterns.  Sunlight in the spring is different than in the summer due to the sun being lower on the horizon. Also, water clarity can change by the hour


2018 Kokanee Fishing Seminar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LqI-pTw...eResources

[Lundman]

Kokanee Fishing: Does The shape of the downrigger weight SHAPE matter ?

Hi Robert - just asking what shape do you prefer - Cannon ball, Pancake, or fish shape ?  

I first ran the pancakes and added different prism tapes to the sides and seem to do well.   
I then switched to red/orange colored fish shaped weights (no prism tape) and did well at the Gorge.
Then I lost one of the fish shaped and went back to the pair of pancakes and they seem to work OK.

 Thanks for your reports, insight, and sharing your knowledge - we all very much appreciate you!!

[liketrolling]

I use the  Pancake one because they don't roll all over the boat  but would think the fish shaped ones would work just as good
not sure what the blow back would be with the fish shaped.  I get some if I go over 2 mph 

[bone8]

Does the weight matter as well as the shape

[Downriggerer]

I use the fish shaped weights. Heavier weights have less blowback, but forward surface area dependent. It's the ratio of weight to surface area that determines blowback. Pancakes have a lot of surface area, but low forward surface area. The shape of the pancake also means that a heavier pancake has to be a lot bigger and typically needs a steel core as a fin to prevent spinning. I run fish shaped weights because I believe I get some hydrodynamic advantages from the fins (the fins make the weight dig into the water and prevent spinning, kind of like the shape of a fish or a plane) which reduces blowback based on my tests. The guys who are fishing king salmon 200 feet down on downriggers are using 20lb weights to get down and reduce blow back. In my opinion, blowback only matters until you get a sense for how deep you are with a particular weight. If you can see your downrigger ball, you can see how deep you are and blow back is simply an issue of correcting depth until you are in the zone. You can also reduce blow back by using braided line instead of steel wire. But, those are fighting words around here.

One little trick I don't share much is using the lead fish shaped weights, I'll carry a couple of different weights that are painted different colors. I find I use the pink and orange painted weights more than the others.

The theory is somewhat more than I want to explain absent some desire to hear it, but it's basically a fight or flight that I want to trigger in kokanee. They see a big pink downrigger ball, then they have to decide whether or not to fight it. The downrigger ball is big and dangerous and the math says it's more dangerous to fight something big in your space, so the salmon is irritated but lets it slide. By the time the hoochie goes by, they are irritated, looking for something to take out some aggression on, and a little hoochie goes by they feel more comfortable "teaching a lesson" to. And, bang. Engage salmon elevator.

By the end of the season, the most aggressive fish have been caught for the most part and the more docile fish are left. So my leader length is shorter for more action when the kokanee start getting aggressive (e.g., as the water warms up) and gets longer when the kokanee are less active or aggressive (beginning/end of the season, water is cold, etc.). In other words, the aggressiveness of my presentation scales to my perceived aggressiveness of the kokanee. There is no single leader length that is best.

[wiperhunter2]

I use the fish shaped weights.  Heavier weights have less blowback, but forward surface area dependent.  It's the ratio of weight to surface area that determines blowback.  Pancakes have a lot of surface area, but low forward surface area.  The shape of the pancake also means that a heavier pancake has to be a lot bigger and typically needs a steel core as a fin to prevent spinning.  I run fish shaped weights because I believe I get some hydrodynamic advantages from the fins (the fins make the weight dig into the water and prevent spinning, kind of like the shape of a fish or a plane) which reduces blowback based on my tests.  The guys who are fishing king salmon 200 feet down on downriggers are using 20lb weights to get down and reduce blow back.  In my opinion, blowback only matters until you get a sense for how deep you are with a particular weight.  If you can see your downrigger ball, you can see how deep you are and blow back is simply an issue of correcting depth until you are in the zone.  You can also reduce blow back by using braided line instead of steel wire.  But, those are fighting words around here.

One little trick I don't share much is using the lead fish shaped weights, I'll carry a couple of different weights that are painted different colors.  I find I use the pink and orange painted weights more than the others. 

The theory is somewhat more than I want to explain absent some desire to hear it, but it's basically a fight or flight that I want to trigger in kokanee.  They see a big pink downrigger ball, then they have to decide whether or not to fight it.  The downrigger ball is big and dangerous and the math says it's more dangerous to fight something big in your space, so the salmon is irritated but lets it slide.  By the time the hoochie goes by, they are irritated, looking for something to take out some aggression on, and a little hoochie goes by they feel more comfortable "teaching a lesson" to.  And, bang.  Engage salmon elevator.

By the end of the season, the most aggressive fish have been caught for the most part and the more docile fish are left.  So my leader length is shorter for more action when the kokanee start getting aggressive (e.g., as the water warms up) and gets longer when the kokanee are less active or aggressive (beginning/end of the season, water is cold, etc.).  In other words, the aggressiveness of my presentation scales to my perceived aggressiveness of the kokanee.  There is no single leader length that is best.

Interesting observations, what are your thoughts on setbacks, early in the year compared to later?

[Downriggerer]

Interesting observations, what are your thoughts on setbacks, early in the year compared to later?

For me, setbacks are a function of two things - Depth of fish and size of fish.

First, I set back longer earlier in the season when fish tend to be shallow or gathered near the surface.  From my experience kokanee do not like boats passing over them and they will go off to the side before they see anything from the downriggers.  When the water is cold and they could be anywhere, my setbacks are a little shorter, or I will just fish shallow and not stack and run other rods on planer boards to catch the fish my boat is pushing out to the side. 

In the middle of the season, as fish go down, I tend to lengthen the setbacks with the intent of giving myself more time to reel the fish to the boat and to wear it out.  I've had to many kokanee swim right for the boat to save energy and then save it all for a rodeo behind the boat.  I don't want a rodeo behind the boat.  I want the rodeo 35 feet back.  As the fish get bigger, I go farther on the setbacks to give myself more time to play them in.  As long as you are quick to the downriggers, keep your rods loaded and get tight reasonably quickly, the fish will stay on and you can wear it out as it comes in instead of going nuts when they see the boat. 

When fish reach their deepest, say 80-100 feet at Flaming Gorge, I reduce the length of the setbacks because I have depth making up distance from me to the fish instead of the setback.  So, the biggest fish I catch all year tend to be in the late July time frame and that's also when they are 100 feet down.  The set backs get closer because I have a lot more water to bring them up through and wear them out before they get to the boat.  I don't need a lot more distance to wear them out.

Setbacks play into my fight or flight theory as well.  Based on some rough math, if I'm doing 2.0 mph, that's about 3 feet per second.  Assuming a fish has a memory of 30 seconds, I want all my gear passing by them in less than 30 seconds so they remember they were and had something invade their space.  So, maximum setback would be 90 feet.  I'd say a short setback would be in the 25-30 foot range and a "long" setback for me would be approximately 45-55 feet back. 

Now the fish will come up and be curious and interested in the ball as well.  They'll follow it around looking at it for a while, even schooling up with it.  When I see that, I'll take the boat out of gear for a minute to slow down, let the gear fall, let the ball slow down and pull out of the blow back and then put it back in gear.  The salmon are usually startled and it can be a quick couple of fish on the elevator.

[wiperhunter2]

When we were out with Robert last week, we saw fish coming in shallow, 10 to 20 ft deep, on his Garmin Pantix but once they got close to the boat they would dive twenty to thirty feet and go under the boat. A lot of time that worked in our favor because that was where our lures were at but it made me wonder if we had longer setbacks, if the kokes would have come back up after the boat went by. Not sure how far the setback would need to be for that plan to work but I was thinking 75 to 100 feet.

[Downriggerer]

When we were out with Robert last week, we saw fish coming in shallow, 10 to 20 ft deep, on his Garmin Pantix but once they got close to the boat they would dive twenty to thirty feet and go under the boat. A lot of time that worked in our favor because that was where our lures were at but it made me wonder if we had longer setbacks, if the kokes would have come back up after the boat went by. Not sure how far the setback would need to be for that plan to work but I was thinking 75 to 100 feet.

Could the boat have spooked them?  If they are diving, I would think they were just milling around on the surface and got spooked by the boat.

[wiperhunter2]

When we were out with Robert last week, we saw fish coming in shallow, 10 to 20 ft deep, on his Garmin Pantix but once they got close to the boat they would dive twenty to thirty feet and go under the boat. A lot of time that worked in our favor because that was where our lures were at but it made me wonder if we had longer setbacks, if the kokes would have come back up after the boat went by. Not sure how far the setback would need to be for that plan to work but I was thinking 75 to 100 feet.

Could the boat have spooked them?  If they are diving, I would think they were just milling around on the surface and got spooked by the boat.

Yes, that is exactly what happened but instead of just going around the boat, they went down under the boat. We caught them on side planners, near the surface but the vast majority were caught between 25 ft early and 40 ft later.

[Downriggerer]

When we were out with Robert last week, we saw fish coming in shallow, 10 to 20 ft deep, on his Garmin Pantix but once they got close to the boat they would dive twenty to thirty feet and go under the boat. A lot of time that worked in our favor because that was where our lures were at but it made me wonder if we had longer setbacks, if the kokes would have come back up after the boat went by. Not sure how far the setback would need to be for that plan to work but I was thinking 75 to 100 feet.

Could the boat have spooked them?  If they are diving, I would think they were just milling around on the surface and got spooked by the boat.

Yes, that is exactly what happened but instead of just going around the boat, they went down under the boat. We caught them on side planners, near the surface but vast majority were caught between 25 ft early and 40 ft later.

That makes sense.  I find the sun pushes them down as the day gets brighter and brighter too.

[kandersonSLC]

Great tips and analysis. I'll try to think more like a Kokanee.