New Division of Law Enforcement in the Dept of Natural Resources

[BearLakeFishGuy]

I fished Willard Bay a BUNCH this year, as well as Rockport, Bear Lake and Hyrum.  There was never a person at the gate when I entered at ANY of the parks.  I think a significant amount of Parks employees have, or will bail out of Parks, since there will be a new "Division of Law Enforcement".  The Parks guys with Law Enforcement authority, did not want to lose their 20 year retirement law enforcement retirement, so many of them went (or will go) to the new Div. of Law Enforcement.  Word has it that the Division of Parks people left will not have law enforcement authority, nor will they replace all of the former Park Rangers with new people.  Quite honestly I think it is a great idea and it has been a long time in the making.  I worked for 30+ years for the Dept. of Natural Resources, Division of Wildlife Resources.  I saw the UDWR officers doing their LE training and gun qualifications and then the next week the Division of Parks was doing the same dang thing in different locations.  Each Division had their own heirarchy of law enforcement supervisors, etc.  The new Division of Law Enforcement will avoid duplication of efforts, and also avoid individual Divisions doing their own "thing".  I know many UDWR officers were not happy with it for various reasons, but this is not about each Division (Parks, Wildlife, OGM, Water Resources, Water Rights, etc.) wanting their own turf, but it is about how to serve the public more efficiently and also spending less money by not duplicating efforts, training, etc.  Now the Division of Law Enforcement officers will hopefully stop a boat (for example) and check for life jackets, fire extinguishers, boat under the influence  AND also check fishing licenses, and other fishing regulations.  Anyway I thought I'd throw that out there for some discussion.  How do others on BFT see this?  Good?  Bad?  Indifferent?   Personally, I like being check by a Conservation Officer for my license, but I know others that feel getting checked twice in one day and getting their fishing trip interrupted twice when one check would have been sufficient, will really appreciate less interruptions.  Please don't ask me any questions regarding how, who, when, etc.  I just typed everything I know about it.  Not sure when it will happen, but I'm guessing either the first of the year but more likely the first of the State's Fiscal Year (July 1st).

[smokepoles]

Need to know more. Is the new DLE totally separate from both the Parks and DWR? Will the DWR people now have no law enforcement authority? Does the new division lessen the total number of enforcement officers owing to a projected reduction in duplicated efforts? How will the DLE people be assigned to enforce park and wildlife (and other) rules? The devil is in the details.

[BearLakeFishGuy]

1)Yes, it will be a new Division under the Dept of Natural Resources
2)UDWR conservation officers will maintain their authority as well as State Parks, Outdoor Recreation and Forestry, Fire & State Lands. Instead of being LE under each current Division there will only be one Division that does LE
3) Not sure if it will lessen number of LE personnel in the field, but I'm sure it will have some impact in the upper echelon with less chiefs, less lieutenants, etc.
4) I understand that DLE will enforce all Parks/Wildlife/Outdoor Rec/Etc laws. For example, Parks would check a 4-wheeler for registration decals, then UDWR would check that person's hunting license, whether a gun was loaded, etc. Now one officer would check everything.
I've asked for an explanation, and if I receive one, I will post what I know.

[obifishkenobi]

I spent last January and February visiting every state park in my role with the State of Utah and talked to most of the Park Managers and their staffs about this reorganization. From these conversations, my understanding is that, park rangers and game wardens will be combined together into one division. Currently each park is its own law enforcement unit with the highest ranking member also serving as the park manager. Under the new system there will be regional offices or stations that the new division officers will work out of. Current park rangers will have to decide whether they want to remain at their parks and give up their LE duties or continue their LE careers and possibly have to move to another region of the state to continue in LE. One of the consideration that they have to think about is the state retirement system which contributes 15% to firefighters and cops and only 10% to the rest of us. I heard that the goal will be to reduce the total number of officers in the state by about 1/3 because they will need fewer command chains of lieutenants and captains. The plan is to not lay anybody off but for it to happen through retirement and attrition. The last couple Parks Managers hired at Red Fleet and Huntington State Park have not been LE. From a Facilities stand point I think its a good thing that the parks are going to be managed by people with back grounds in recreation or facilities management. It seemed to me that most of the rangers I talked to that where close to retirement planned on staying with their park so that they would not have to possibly move. A smaller portion of the younger rangers that liked where they lived and went to work every day are planning on giving up LE. A good portion of the rangers live in houses in their parks and would likely be required to move out if they continue in LE.

[dubob]

I have lived in Utah since 1977.  I fish and hunt a lot.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've been stopped and checked by any LEO other than a police officer or State Trooper.  Boat check; once.  License check; three times.  So, for me, there will be no impact either way.  If it is cost effective (which appears to be the case from your information Scott), then go for it.  Life is good as long as I can continue to hunt, fish, and blow up clay targets with a shotgun.  

[BertDawg]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments. They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

[oldguy]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments.  They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

I enjoy being check that tells me they are doing there job,if you are not doing anything wrong then nothing to worry about just IMO.

[dubob]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments.  They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

The only joke here is your attitude.

[Fowl-Hook]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments.  They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

I as well don't like being checked on the water or being pulled over in my auto, the laws requiring probable cause indicate to me that these tactics are recognized as abusive and invasive and not to be used. I would suggest that if you enjoy being detained from the activities you ventured out to enjoy you might question why that is.

[Kent]

I also don't mind being checked. Even with the checking that is occurring there are still many folks who don't think the laws apply to them. If checking didn't exist there would be even more who would have that mindset and it would become the wild west (or wild Utah).

[oldguy]

I also don't mind being checked.  Even with the checking that is occurring there are still many folks who don't think the laws apply to them.  If checking didn't exist there would be even more who would have that mindset and it would become the wild west (or wild Utah).

Amen

[TT600]

I don’t mind getting checked as long as the rules are reasonable. When the amount of fees and rules get so confusing and out of control that no normal person can even understand them then I don’t like getting checked. Example, the numerous stickers and rules for Boating in Utah and neighboring states.

[TubeDude]

I also don't mind being checked.  Even with the checking that is occurring there are still many folks who don't think the laws apply to them.  If checking didn't exist there would be even more who would have that mindset and it would become the wild west (or wild Utah).

Right ye be.  I have heard from more than one DWR CO that the worst violations they encounter...over-limits, protected species, slot violations, illegal gear, etc...are usually by anglers who have also failed to even buy a fishing license.   There seems to be a "Russian roulette" mentality of seeing just how much they can get away with without being caught.  And there are a lot of "resource thieves" who never get checked and never get caught.  

[dubob]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments.  They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

I as well don't like being checked on the water or being pulled over in my auto, the laws requiring probable cause indicate to me that these tactics are recognized as abusive and invasive and not to be used. I would suggest that if you enjoy being detained from the activities you ventured out to enjoy you might question why that is.

I don't need to question why.  I know exactly why.  Because there are way too many folks that don't know or, worse, don't care, what the fish & game laws are and think they don't really apply to themselves.  Do a little research and find out how many fish, game, boat, and motor vehicle citations are issued every day, week, month, and/or year.  The numbers are staggering.  And regardless of your personal attitude about being checked for anything while perusing your favorite past-time, it is 100% needed.  I don't mind it one bit and welcome it knowing that it is helping keep John Q Public honest.  You may be squeaky clean for fish & game law violations, but it's guaranteed that you know somebody who has violated the laws one or more times.  And every one of those violations has an impact on all of us with depleted game & fish resources or access restrictions on both public and private land.

[TT600]

I can think of quite a few lakes that need a bunch of people taking over limits. The thing is no one wants to in these lakes because the fish are poor quality. Example 1,2,3 are Pete’s hole, Academy Mill, and Soup Bowl. I have posted many other trip reports of lakes that need thinning out. Like most other people I don’t post trip reports on lakes that don’t need thinning out because that’s where I get the fish I eat.

[gofish435]

I have been checked twice this year for license & AIS in my tube and have been happy to do so.  The few times I may get bothered are well worth the fact that they are out there and at least making some people nervous and think twice about their behavior.  How many times over the years have we all seen a DWR truck pull up and a number of folks decide it's time to go?

A problem with fish & game violations are the fines are not high enough.  A guy can be sited for not having a non-resident license and the fine is less than buying a license.   

The justice system does not see the value of wildlife the same as hunters and fisher people, so judges go easy on the violators.

I think the new organization sounds like a good idea.  We'll have to see if it turns out that way.   

[BertDawg]

If laws and law enforcement officers are so effective, Why is crime so rampant?

[dubob]

If laws and law enforcement officers are so effective, Why is crime so rampant?

Oh, I don't know; let me take a wild guess here - maybe because of people with an attitude like this:

I will not comply

[RILEYFISH]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments.  They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

I as well don't like being checked on the water or being pulled over in my auto, the laws requiring probable cause indicate to me that these tactics are recognized as abusive and invasive and not to be used. I would suggest that if you enjoy being detained from the activities you ventured out to enjoy you might question why that is.

I don't need to question why.  I know exactly why.  Because there are way too many folks that don't know or, worse, don't care, what the fish & game laws are and think they don't really apply to themselves.  Do a little research and find out how many fish, game, boat, and motor vehicle citations are issued every day, week, month, and/or year.  The numbers are staggering.  And regardless of your personal attitude about being checked for anything while perusing your favorite past-time, it is 100% needed.  I don't mind it one bit and welcome it knowing that it is helping keep John Q Public honest.  You may be squeaky clean for fish & game law violations, but it's guaranteed that you know somebody who has violated the laws one or more times.  And every one of those violations has an impact on all of us with depleted game & fish resources or access restrictions on both public and private land.

Well said Bob. i wish we had the ability to have three times the amount of officers available to check licenses, boats, etc. Soon we will have quagga muscles in our lakes, skinny little snakey fish, the list goes on. Sadly, i feel there is so many so called Sportsman outt here who could care less about laws and will take as many fish of whatever species they want home with them and could care less. The chances of them being caught are slim to nothing. Then if by chance they do get caught, its poor poor me, the damn fish cops caught me, they screwed me over. Ok, Rant over!

[Kent]

Personally I do not like being checked and think we can do away with most of the state departments.  They are all a waste of money. I'm tired of my money being used to harass me and force me to pay more to access so called "public" land. The whole system is a joke.

I as well don't like being checked on the water or being pulled over in my auto, the laws requiring probable cause indicate to me that these tactics are recognized as abusive and invasive and not to be used. I would suggest that if you enjoy being detained from the activities you ventured out to enjoy you might question why that is.

I don't need to question why.  I know exactly why.  Because there are way too many folks that don't know or, worse, don't care, what the fish & game laws are and think they don't really apply to themselves.  Do a little research and find out how many fish, game, boat, and motor vehicle citations are issued every day, week, month, and/or year.  The numbers are staggering.  And regardless of your personal attitude about being checked for anything while perusing your favorite past-time, it is 100% needed.  I don't mind it one bit and welcome it knowing that it is helping keep John Q Public honest.  You may be squeaky clean for fish & game law violations, but it's guaranteed that you know somebody who has violated the laws one or more times.  And every one of those violations has an impact on all of us with depleted game & fish resources or access restrictions on both public and private land.

Well said Bob. i wish we had the ability to have three times the amount of officers available to check licenses, boats, etc. Soon we will have quagga muscles in our lakes, skinny little snakey fish, the list goes on. Sadly, i feel there is so many so called Sportsman outt here who could care less about laws and will take as many fish of whatever species they want home with them and could care less. The chances of them being caught are slim to nothing. Then if by chance they do get caught, its poor poor me, the damn fish cops caught me, they screwed me over. Ok, Rant over!

I couldn't agree more!