Utah Lake Legacy

[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Waljustia (the Walrus) is a fledgling jig-maker. He bribed me for a "session" by loaning me his copy of the Utah Lake: Legacy program...CD, hardbound book and study guide. This was put together a couple of years ago as a part of the June Sucker Recovery Program.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I don't know if copies are still available, or where, but anybody who fancies Utah Lake should make an effort to get their own personal copy. Maybe the Walrus can chime in with some info.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It was fascinating to watch the different parts of the DVD, with tons of old pictures of the way things use to was. Great history lesson and wonderful pics. It really does serve as an object lesson for how badly mankind can trash a wonderful natural resource.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I made copies of a couple of the charts included in the study book, and also scanned copies of a couple of photos of the former fishing potential. One pics[/#0000ff][#0000ff] is of some large cutthroat from Utah Lake. The DVD made reference to the fact that it was not uncommon to catch 20 pounders in the first few years after the 1849 discovery of Utah Lake as a food resource.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One of the surprises was how long largemouth bass have been in Utah Lake, and how great the fishery was in the "olden days". Hey bassers, take a look at this pic from 1909 and imagine if there were largies in there like that today.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There have been many "urban legends" circulating about Utah Lake over the years. Some claim that the lake was a pristine mountain lake, ringed by beautiful pine trees. NOT. Others claim the lake was a bottomless blue lake, like Bear Lake. NOT. As the program and pictures clearly show, it was a shallow lake, subject to being muddied up by winds, pretty much as it is today. But, the balance of the native species and the lush underwater habitat (pre-carp) made it a good home for plenty of big cutthroat and suckers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Thanks Dave for sharing that program. [/#0000ff]
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[waljustia]

I knew you would like it. I too was fascinated by the history of the lake and the condition it used to be in.

I remember reading one thing in the book... Utah lake, 10,000 years ago, was something like 28 feet deeper. Over those years, it received that much depth in sediment from the tributaries/springs that empty into the lake. So, yes.. it was deeper.. but not too much deeper, and that was 10K yrs ago.

Anyway, I was able to talk Reed Harris, the director of the June Sucker recovery program, into sending it to me. I went searching for more information after our discussions on the June sucker a couple weeks ago. I found this site:

[url "http://www.junesuckerrecovery.org/"]http://www.junesuckerrecovery.org/[/url]

After I had read much of the site. I went to the resources page and saw that they had material available. That's how I got my copies.

Anyone remotely interested in Utah Lake really would be impressed with the quality of the material the State put out, and with the History of the Lake.

TD, in that one photo with the man and his wife and the big Bass. They were listed as Black Bass (I think). I might be wrong, but I remember thinking.. I didn't know there were black bass in UL.

Reed told me he had a "couple" copies still left. If no more are available for distribution, I will happily share. We might be OK to make copies of the DVD.. I'll have to find out.


Oh, one more thing...Although already on decline.. you can see from that chart that the drought in the 30's dealt probably the worste blow to the Junies and ended the existence of the UL sculpin, and the cutthroat ..
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[Saberfish]

[black][size 3]Thanks to both you and "the Walrus" for this information. [/size][/black]
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[size 3]Both an informative and historical read. It's too bad that returning the lake to it's former glory is such a costly and near impossible task.[/size]
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[DallanC]

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I remember reading one thing in the book... Utah lake, 10,000 years ago, was something like 28 feet deeper. Over those years, it received that much depth in sediment from the tributaries/springs that empty into the lake. So, yes.. it was deeper.. but not too much deeper, and that was 10K yrs ago. [/reply]
Whats the purpose of going back that far? 10,000 years??? Why not tack on another 6,000 years when the lake was over 1,000ft deep! (ie: time of lake bonneville)
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[RyanCreek]

That makes me sick too think how much impact we humans have had on Utah Lake, not to mention all the other bodies of water throughout the whole world. The trophies we catch now were once so commonplace to be unremarkable.

Yes, we've made some advances in protecting our natural resources, but all in all we are still the same... sucking the environment dry.

One of my greatest wishes would be to travel back in time thousands or even just a couple hundred of years with all the modern fishing gear that I have now and fish anywhere in the world I wanted. Imagine the possibilities!
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[TubeDude]

[black]"TD, in that one photo with the man and his wife and the big Bass. They were listed as Black Bass (I think). I might be wrong, but I remember thinking.. I didn't know there were black bass in UL. "[/black]
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[black][cool][#0000ff]Largemouth Bass are also called Largemouth BLACK Bass.[/#0000ff][/black]
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[black][#0000ff]Check the 1890 introduction date.[/#0000ff][/black]
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[black][#0000ff]Thanks for the additional info.[/#0000ff]

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[waljustia]

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[black][cool][#0000ff]Largemouth Bass are also called Largemouth BLACK Bass.[/#0000ff][/black]
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[black][#0000ff]Check the 1890 introduction date.[/#0000ff][/black]
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[black][#0000ff]Thanks for the additional info.[/#0000ff]

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I thought that might be the case.. but wasnt' sure.. Thanks for the clarification. Those fish look like they could almost challenge our current records for LMB's.

Ryancreek:
One thing that we need to remember with the damage done to Utah Lake.. Granted the pollution was human caused, and un-necessary. But the lake served a great purpose with the early settlers to this valley. It literally saved them from starvation. They had run out of food.. then when harvest time came....The crickets showed up for an "Early Harvest" The settlers knew of the fish in the lake and literally sustained the populous largely with fish from the lake..
and for everyones information... They said the June sucker taste great!
Yes, they over-harvested.. But it served a purpose..
It is a great effort to get the lake to a more pristine condition. I for one feel that we owe it to the lake. It's long past time to pay back to UL what she did for this state.
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[line_dangler]

I would like to kiss your and Waljustia's feet for this information. Well, not really, but I applaud you for providing it. Utah lake is the Largest Natural Lake west of the Mississippi River, and it is perhaps the most abused lake in history in Utah, then comes Bear Lake. It is possible to remove all the carp and put back vegatation, with perhaps say a billion or more dollars. However, the damage that Geneva Steel contributed will be in the soil and environent there for thousands even millions of years. The heavy metals put there by Geneva for years by lack of Environmental Laws and Regulations, plus a complete blatant and utter lack of natural and environmental consiousness and morals by the executives of Geneva Steel Corporation. Geneva Steel not being there is the best god dang thing that that happened to this state, environmentaly speaking. Jut like in the 20s and 30s when commercial fishing decimated Bear Lake, all the years of carelessness for Utah Lake made it what it is today. A carp heaven. They were even thinking of selling the Utah Lake carp to the Iraqis, a couple weeks back. Let those people have the heavy lead and arsenic filled fish. The Utah Department of Water Quality has not even carried out a real serious survey of the situation there. Heavy lead, even in the minutest of minute amounts is very damaging. Not to speak of the mercury and antimony that is there. Plants even have trouble growing and photosynthesizing if there is too much lead and antiomony in the soil and nutrients. Let us all face it, Utah Lake is an environmental disaster, so after knowing what it was in the good old days, when man had balls and a brain, I will just go to bed and cry. For God's sake, that is all I can do.

The Great Salt Lake and Rivers coming into are beginning to increase in Selenium. So the pollution is continuing, but I guess our nice lawns and fertilizers used to make the lawns nice will still make us happy. Even though they are practically and really destroying our fishiries.
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[Fin-S-Fish]

I'm almost certain there are many more lmb swimming at this moment in utah lake that can rival the size of those lmb in the pic. It's about the pollution and all, but I really don't wish to see Utah lake returned to the original state. Clean up the pollution yes, definitely, no matter what the cost, but no for a lake with a biomass of 90% suckers and chubs. The fish diversity is GREAT right now and numbers too. White bass, lmb, walleye, crappie, bluegills, catfish, and even a perch mixed in here and there. The carp are annoying but harmless to the average sportfish.

[Jiggety]

Great post. My grandpa grew up in Pleasant Grove, and he used to tell me stories of the fish he would catch in Utah Lake. He said there were days he would catch 50 plus cutthroats, and none smaller than 4 pounds.
It really is to know that this is what has become of such an amazing fishery. It is still a great place to fish, but I fear that in 50 years or so it wont be.
Whoever thought that it was a good idea to put carp in the lake needs to be strung up. From what I know they thought it would be a good food source. They must not have done much taste testing. Carp is not really all that bad tasting, but its on the bottom of the list for me when im deciding what to put on my table.
Fin-S-Fish said that they are not a problem to the average sport fisherman, but thats completely wrong. When the carp have destroyed the habitat to the point that other fish cannot be sustained, that would be a problem.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Like many of the things done to Utah Lake, introducing carp was not a good move. And, like a lot of the other things, it was not based upon knowledge or environmental impact surveys. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Modern Utah folks are spoiled. We generally have a decent standard of living and get our food from our choice of mega markets. When we eat fish, it is either trout or some other species more highly favored than carp. Again, we have a choice.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The early settlers in Utah nearly starved to death in the first few years...more than once. Without the fish from Utah Lake they probably would not have survived at all. But, because many of the settlers overdid it and harvested the fish commercially...and farmers dammed the streams and killed many more fish that were never utilized...Utah Lake was soon running out of fish. Didn't seem possible, but it was.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]And, while we turn up our noses at carp, as a food fish, many of the newly arrived settlers were recent immigrants from European countries where carp were a standard food fish. All they could see was a chance to have plenty of good eating fish to replace the dwindling trout and suckers. They were totally unaware of the carp's potential for destroying the ecosystem of the lake. Too bad for us.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I also agree about the carp impacting the sport fish. Directly, they do not physically crowd out the "sport fish". And the carp contribute millions of fry each year that add to the food base for the predators...but only for a short time, until they rapidly grow too large. However, it is a biological fact that there is a limited amount of space and food resources in any body of water. Whenever one species (like carp) becomes so dominant they DO affect the whole scheme of things...both directly and indirectly.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In the Utah Lake of "olden days", chubs, suckers, sculpins, shiners and other small species were the primary food source for the predators. And, in those days there was only one top predator...the cutthroat. There was a balance and it worked very well. The carp completely destroyed it all...making it impossible for the forage species to spawn and survive and thus eliminating a food source for the trout. There are several references in the LEGACY DVD and book where officials observed the size and health of the cutts plummeting after carp were introduced. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Today the forage base is comprised mostly of "young of the year" of all the other species. Since there are no "minnows", like chubs, dace, sculpins or shiners, the predators feed on each others young...along with the carp. White bass, bluegill and crappies all contribute to the food chain each year when they spawn. Indeed, small white bass are probably the number one source of protein for walleyes and big catfish. Whenever the white bass do not have a good recruitment, all of the top predators suffer too. Poor spawning is usually a factor of low water levels or poor flows, but when prey species try to spawn in unvegetatated and open areas their eggs are vacuumed up by carp...or the eggs smothered by siltation. The end result is the same. Poor survival.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]And so it goes. Simple solution. Get rid of the carp. Not a simple problem.[/#0000ff]
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[Troll]

Finally, in TD's last post sombody mentions the real bigest problem. Dams.

In 1935, before Deer Creek was built the population of carp was down to 700K, in 1945, 4 years after DC was completed, 2.4 million and continued to go up every year since.
I will agree that the carp have raised havoc with the suckers and chubs, but I'll bet that if we did not capture and re-route the major tributary into the lake it would fix it's self real fast.
Imagine if the big J were to breach in an earthquake, It would take out DC in a flash and 2 weeks later, UT lake would be a whole diferent place.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]To be fair, all the fish numbers were down in 1935 because there was a major drought and the lake level dropped to less than 2 feet deep.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Dams are always "damned" as culprits, and they do cause changes in the ecosystem. However, we would not be able to maintain agriculture, commerce or the large residential base we have today without Deer Creek and now Jordanelle. Just as with the dams along the Colorado River, they are reviled by tree huggers but vital to human existence.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]We can't have it both ways. Without Deer Creek there would be some years that Salt Lake could be flooded in low lying areas. And, in other years the lower Provo River would be dry and Utah Lake would become a shallow stagnant pool by the end of July. It could even be both in the same year.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The dams put in by the early settlers were for the sole purpose of diverting water onto their fields. And, because they had no screening system for fish, thousands were sucked out of the river out into the fields to die.[/#0000ff]
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[Troll]

Never said dams were not needed for our way of life. I still claim that their existance is in this case is the major contribuitor to the overall down fall of UT lake.

Lakes with high inflow and unregulated outflow can clean themselves faster than any impounded water. They have been doing it for millions of years.

You love to poo-poo the treehuggers, but if they had existed then with the power they have now there we would not have ever had either dam, carp or geneva steel.
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[JBinUTAH]

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Imagine if the big J were to breach in an earthquake, It would take out DC in a flash and 2 weeks later, UT lake would be a whole diferent place. [/reply]
So would my house. Glub Glub Glub. Beach front property??
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[TubeDude]

[size 1][black][size 2]"You love to poo-poo the treehuggers, but if they had existed then with the power they have now there we would not have ever had either dam, carp or geneva steel.[/size][/black] "[/size]
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[blue][size 2][cool]I may joke about it, but I have nothing against environmentalists. In fact, that was kinda what I was getting at. If there had been environmentalists then, the lake would have survived a lot longer and a lot better. [/size][/blue]
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[blue][size 2]And that is true for virtually our whole country. Not many folks know how close we came to making the human race extinct through polluting our water, air and soil. Can you say silent spring, summer, fall and winter. Thankfully enough people made enough noise to help reverse some of our more destructive policies. But, in many waters the damage is done and cannot be undone for generations...if ever.[/size][/blue]
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[#0000ff]That is what the current cleanup effort on Utah Lake is all about. Hopefully we have stopped most of the downward spiral. Now let's see what we can do...within reason...to take it back the other way.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Some things we can do. Other things can never be undone. [/#0000ff]
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[Troll]

Sorry, my bad, I didn't realize you were joking.
There are some on here who do not see any good at all coming from our "tree huggers", while they rave about how much they enjoy the very things the tree huggers are trying to preserve.
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[waljustia]

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I would like to kiss your and Waljustia's feet for this information.
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You obviously haven't seen what I got growin' on my big toe![]
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[Bowcutt]

We hear a lot about Utah Lake carp. They are omnivorous and eat plants and animals. The hatches of bugs that feed the natural native fish never get to the hatching stage and the cycle is interrupted. No more bugs for fish or fry.

The same thing is happening on the Utah Marshes where ducks and ducklings depend on the hatching bugs for food. Production of ducks has dropped to near zero on Utah Wetlands because of the carp taking away the food needed by ducklings and the adults, esp. in the spring.

The carp need to be controlled along with red foxes and raccoons in the marshes. The red fox and the raccoon are both non-native to Utah and are causing big problems.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Sorry, no shortage of bugs at Utah Lake. Just the opposite. Huge clouds of midges almost all year long. Thousands of waterfowl swimming along vacuuming up millions of bugs. And, the marshy areas where the midge larvae live and hatch are often too shallow for carp to spend much time there.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Can't blame that on carp. If anything, they ain't doin' a very good job of reducing the bug population.[/#0000ff]
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