DWR's Proposal to RAC

[bassrods]

Some of these proposals are very good...but some really stink. Some will effectively ruin what big fish fishing we may have.

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[fsh4fun05]

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I think they are exaggerating about the smallies in Quail, I've only seen one with my own two eyes.
What don't you agree with?
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[albinotrout]

I agree it is pretty cut and dried at what they want. I like the part of lowering the limits at the community ponds.
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[doggonefishin]

OK, I'll nibble. I'm not crazy about the proposed statewide 50 fish perch limit, and I can see why many flyfishers are mad about the proposed Kolob changes, but the rest looks straightforward and positive to me.

I see nothing here that will ruin trophy fishing anywhere in the state.



Fish4fun05, (re the Virgin river system smallies) This is the type of reaction that we can expect when illegal fish introductions are made in areas where endangered species exist. Something for these guys on here that yap their approval for bucket biologists and their actions to think about.
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[bassrods]

For one I don't like them to take the size limits off of the bass on all or just about all the lakes....

And 50 perch on all waters...
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[bassrods]

The smallmouth in Quail is not good...
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[zman1]

can we please get somebody in the dwr that has a clue.. And you wonder why people plant their own fish , these clowns need to go away. The only biologist in utah works at powell. man what a joke,,
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[albinotrout]

Here is a link to the DWR and what they have to say about it. [url "http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/09-08/fishing.php"]http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/09-08/fishing.php[/url]
It explains the 50 fish perch limit and why the smallmouth bass limit.
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[fsh4fun05]

Have you read the proposals that you posted?
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[fuzzyfisher]

i like the 50 perch limit! what was it 3 years ago there was a push here i BFT to get the DWR to NOT put the linit at 10 perch on yuba? to put the standerd 50 fish limit on them and no catch and keep..

eveyone kept saying the the DWR knew best.. yet now they are flip-floping? kind-a seems to me it was a case of we are not going to let fishermen till us what to do! even if it is the right thing to do or not!!
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[bassrods]

At the time some was for and some against, I still like the no cull just can't see how any one needs 50 perch...
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[bassrods]

Yes and Drew was telling us what each one was, and how the DWR meant it to be...

We was at the federation meeting and Drew gave each of us the papers and explained them..

Some of them may be good but others I know from years past will not work unless you like catching only pound to two pound bass for the biggest ones and a four is a once in a life time bass....

Look at East canyon or Starvation a big bass at those are 2 lb any bigger is unheard of most of the time...
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[fuzzyfisher]

well the reason i like it is now i can go to yuba and spend the day fishing! and most the time i'm fishing for pike or eye's. but still pick up perch.. well if i have to keep every one i catch then it dont take long befor i got to go.. this way i can fish all day for pike and eye's and not worry about haveing to meny perch.. i agree with ya most pepole dont need more then 10 yuba perch for the day.. but it sure will be nice to be able to make a day of fishing out of a trip there..
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[Fishhound]

[#008000]That's exactly my take on it as well. [/#008000]
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[#008000]Yuba is kind of a long drive to have to call it quits after 10 perch when it's really other fish you want, but already have a limit of dinks and the rest of the day is shot. [/#008000]
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[#008000]I do like perch, but I also seldom want to fillet 50 in one session. [/#008000]
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[dubob]

[quote bassrods]At the time some was for and some against, I still like the no cull just can't see how any one needs 50 perch...[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 4]Sorry Cliff, but it doesn’t have anything to do with need. There’s very little in this world that any of us really NEED. But there are those, including me, that think perch are at the very top of the fresh water food source list. I will try to catch a limit of perch every trip out for them regardless of what that limit is. They will all go in the freezer and will all be consumed by me and mine. I would not trade a perch dinner for any other fish I now of or have eaten. If this change passes, I will definitely be doing a couple of trips to Yuba this winter.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[doggonefishin]

I had mentioned earlier that I wasn't crazy about the 50 fish perch limit change. Let me elaborate a bit.

I'm like Dubob, perch are my favorite freshwater fish to eat. They seem to have become quite popular with a lot of Utahns. When a certain perch lake is doing well, there are veritable cities of Utahns trying to catch them through the ice. Lakes like Rockport and Echo are not huge reservoirs and when there are hordes of anglers hitting a medium sized body of water, all yanking 50 fish, (not hard to do) I could see some of these lakes being adversely affected by this. The 20 perch limit seemed to work OK for these waters.

The DWR states that "50 fish" lakes have had more stable perch populations. This is somewhat misleading, in that 2 of the lakes, Fish lake and Mantua, have stable water levels and huge weedbeds that will permit the perch to have a stable population (and stunt) regardless of the limit. Jordanelle and Pineview however, have had notable population swings recently. They also state that "10 fish lakes" have done poorly. Yubas problems have been well documented here and probably would have occurred regardless of the limit. Deer Creek is the other "10" lake and also has had ridiculous water issues and a large number of stunted predators that would supress the perch regardless of the limit. I really doubt the 10 fish limit has stopped very much harvest at DC the past few years. I guess I would just like to see regulations that match the individual water and not blanket statewide regulations decreed in the name of keeping the regs simple.

I agree with many of you that the Yuba (10 fish, no release during ice season), regs were not working well and am glad to see them changed.
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[doggonefishin]

Cliff, I have reviewed this document several times , and the only statewide bass regulation changes I see on this proposal is to require C&R for largemouths on community ponds, which I'm sure you would agree with. What are you so up in arms about regarding bass regs?

Is your nose out of sort because the DWR won't put trophy regs on East Canyon and Starvation?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Like DuBob, I am an addicted perch jerker. I have also had the experience of having fished all of the Utah perch waters going back to the 1960s, and have seen the transformation of perch from "trash fish" to primary target for many anglers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Perch can by cyclical...big populations for a few years and then CRASHO. But, anglers seldom need to take the blame for the declines. Predator imbalances, natural diseases, food shortages and water fluctuations are far greater factors in perch population swings than angler harvest.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Not many states even have limits on perch. Idaho does not, and there are no perch waters in Idaho that have ever been wiped out by anglers. Ditto for many of the eastern waters where perch are native.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As we all know, Utah is a desert state and the waters are not very rich in nutrients. Water levels fluctuate a lot, and that is a big detriment to a species like perch that need vegetation in which to successfully spawn...and for the young to escape being eaten. So, in a year with low water levels there is a poor spawn, and very little food for the perch fry to subsist upon until they get large enough to feed on each other.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]During the years when Yuba was last a perch and walleye dynasty, Uof U conducted a survey of the ecology of Yuba. They concluded that over 90 percent of the perch removed from Yuba were consumed by predators (mostly walleye) and that anglers had very little impact on the total numbers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I suggest that right now the worst predators of perch in Yuba are the hordes of piscivorous carp. More than a few of us perch hounds have witnessed "wolf packs" of mid-sized carp herding shoals of perch fry into shallow coves and then mopping them up...like a school of tuna demolishing a bait ball of anchovies or sardines. There is not much structure and no weedbeds in Yuba for the young perch to use as cover. Once they are hatched it is a never-ending battle for survival. And, with fewer baby perch left over for the larger perch, the adults are having a tough time making a living too. More of the larger perch being caught are quite thin. And, for those of us who remember Yuba from the "good old days", the top end sizes of the perch are not even close to the sizes they used to get.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Like DuBob, I do not ever NEED 50 perch. Even on lakes with higher limits, I seldom keep more than I need for a couple of meals. But, as others have expressed, I strongly oppose the mandatory keep rules that may have me leaving the lake early with 10 dink perch.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]From my personal knowledge and observations of the vast (half vast) majority of Utah anglers, I doubt that one in a hundred is capable of catching 50 decent perch in one day. And, of those, most would not keep the full limit. So, it is not a matter of multiplying the number of fishing licenses times 50 and coming up with how many perch are going to disappear from a lake. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Just a random thought. The most and biggest perch that ever came out of Yuba, Deer Creek and some other lakes in Utah were taken during the years when there were NO regulations on perch. Granted, there were fewer anglers who kept perch. But, the bottom line is that perch are prolific. If they have good conditions, they will explode. If they have poor spawning, no protective cover for the young and not enough food, they will not maintain a large population.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Fishermen can only hope to be able to enjoy the good years and whine a lot during the down cycles. Not much else they can do. And, it makes little sense for DWR to try to manage the unmanageable. There is nothing they can do to prevent the natural cycles either. And, as I have heard Drew Cushing say "You can't save fish for future years"...or something to that effect. Catch them when they are available because they don't live forever and one bad year can kill off all the fish without anglers ever having a shot at them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]We shall see what we shall see.[/#0000ff]
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[UTBASS]

Statewide General Regulations On Bass.

That is what we need. Despite what certain folks are saying ... You can ask Drew on this ... There are still GIANT Samllies in East Canyon and Starvation! Plenty of them! A Size restriction is a "Cosmetic, Political" Restriction. Nothing more!

I used to feel totally opposite until good, long conversations with "warmwater" biologists at ICAST, California, Oregon & Idaho. There is no proof of the effectiveness of a size regulation on Bass. Small community ponds, maybe but not on the lakes we have around here!

Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.
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[doggonefishin]

Yes, I too have written many of the same sentiments over the years you have expressed here and in the past, and I don't think there is much if any disagreement between us. However, I guess I spend a lot of time doing my "perch jerking" nearby the tent cities of some of our nearby lakes and see potential concerns at some of our most heavily utilized perch fisheries. I suppose we all shall see what happens and I AM glad that Drew and the DWR is taking an active interest in perch management.



BTW, lake X is kicking out some nice chunky perch right now right in or adjacent to the weeds and stick-ups. There are very few right now out deeper.
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