Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation:
0
Greetings,
To preface this, I have always used an indicator while fishing streams/rivers.
I am curious as to how many "experienced" fishers always use an indicator.
What are the advantages/di  vantages? (Common sense tells me it affects a natural drift of a nymph)
How do you learn not to fish with an indicator? In other words, what are you looking for when nymphing? Tight pull on your line, watch your fly line, and a flash of where you "think" your fly floats down the river?
I get frustrated after the first 10-15 minutes of no fish. I then wonder if something else might work. Unfortunately, I always stay with what has caught fish in the past. I seem to talk my self into it. I know there is a fish in that hole. This has to work. It usually ends up with me moving to the next hole just to repeat the whole process.
Good luck!
[signature]
Posts: 68
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation:
0
I Always use one.
I use a small thingamabobber-
We're talking about fooling FISH, not rocket scientist- they really aren't THAT smart. I believe if you get the right fly to the right level, in the feeding lane, and they're looking for a morsel, they'll eat it.
If I'm NOT catching fish in a hole I KNOW has fish, I'm changing bugs until I find the one they want, not wondering if the indicator is causing a little unrealistic drift.
But that's just me...some guys will blame 0 fish on an indicator- and that's ok too... I don't mind fishing behind those guys. 
Edit:
When I first started nymphing, I couldn't figure out how my buddy was catching 5 fish for every hit that I got, so he sat and watched me fish for about 3 minutes- at the end I had 0 fish and maybe 2 hits....I thought. He said I got hit on all but 1 or 2 casts, I just wasn't recognizing the light bumps as hits. I thought it was just bouncing off the bottom the whole time. He threw his line in and caught one first cast. Learning to recognize a light "hit" is key. Waiting for an indicator to come to a full pause isn't gonna produce as many fish.
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
50% of the time, but maybe 75% meaning I use a "dry" dropper when not using a thingamabobber. But I also prefer no dry or indicator (softhackles).
[signature]
Posts: 2,396
Threads: 0
Joined: Sep 2006
Reputation:
0
When nymphing I find strike indicators to be one more tactic to assist in setting the hook. My first instinct is feel but there are times when the line has slack in it or Ive just drop the fly in the water to strip out line and I get a strike.
Drag can be good, especially when deep water nymphing "bottom bouncing" or J-hooking. A example of this, good percentage of fish are caught at the end of the drift when the nymph is suspended in the water column.
I think one of the major advantages for new & young fly fishers is a visual aid like a strike indicator. Most do not know when to set the hook seeing the indicator get pulled under is a good amenity for them.
Di vantages ... False strikes, relying ONLY on the visual aid not on the feel. Another piece of plastic to line our streams with....
All in all I think strike indicator are invaluable whether they be the cheap palsa's or more expensive thingamabobbers they work and work well.
[signature]
Posts: 2,727
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
0
Just have to get used to the feel of a strike that's all. I don't find most strikes to be subtle to begin with in moving water. And with a little practice you'll start feeling the more subtle ones. I don't high stick a lot but I do keep the line fairly tight after casting upstream and let the fly come back downstream. Any unnatural movement of the fly is pretty easy to detect. Now that may be hitting bottom, a rock or the fly all of a sudden dropping down because of the current. Just practice and you'll start to get used to the difference. When in doubt set the hook as that will clear things up. Starting with smaller streams where you can do a lot of sight nymphing is helpful. You'll catch a lot of fish and get to see what it feels like watching the fish take the fly. Also don't use a salmon rod for trout at least initially. A lighter rod is a lot more sensitive when you're learning and even when you comfortable with it.
[signature]
Posts: 1,430
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation:
0
i go by a saying when im nymphing,"When in doubt set the hook. there are som many times i fly fish the weeb and my indicator will just stop suddenly and keep going, most times then not its going to be a fish especially if your not hitting bottom at all. but recently ive been trying to get the hang of nymphing without an indicator and looking at my line for sudden stops and twitches, its can be difficault but once you start catching fish that way you wont go back.
tightlines
[signature]
Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation:
0
Thanks for the tips. I can see the value using indicators but I also see the di vantages. I have been breed to only look at the indicator when nymphing which in itself leads to laziness in my opinion. I'll just have to practice a bit and become more aware of what is happening with the water and the fly.
On another note. From the research I have done it appears my 9 footer 5w rod isn't really suited for the kind of fishing I like to do. Which would be rivers that require hiking etc that usually have a lot of brush. A 9 foot pole becomes frustrating when trees and such wrap themselves around the tip.
So, I guess I'm in the market for a shorter/lighter pole.
Was looking at some 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 ft in the 3/4 weight range.
Are there better options?
[signature]
Posts: 1,430
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation:
0
3 wieghts are like noodles but they can be handy for little uinta lakes and streams like that, also a fun thing to try is fishing a 3 weight on the weeb and try to pull out some of those whitefish on it, thatll teach you to fight fish better im my opinion.
tightlines
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
I have to disagree on indicators creating laziness. They do serve a purpose just like a dry/dropper but the advantage is with a two hook limit, you can cover more water with two hooks under an indicator rather than one dry hook and one nymph.
Plus there are times you want the fly suspended, again, indicator. I swear, if you could attach a hook to an indicator more people would really not have a problem with them...LOL
Jazz, not all 3 wts are noodles. Its called Action or Flex. I have a three weight Shelbyville that is quite fast. Also the shorter the rod.
I have a 2 wt. LL that is wonderful.
Fishinguru, may I suggest ALLEN rods. The AST is a fantastic mid fast.
[signature]
Posts: 344
Threads: 1
Joined: May 2005
Reputation:
0
[quote flygoddess]
...
I swear, if you could attach a hook to an indicator more people would really not have a problem with them...LOL
...
[/quote]
They have them. It's called a floating jighead.[ ]
I used a yellow pinch-on indicator yesterday and was getting as many fish hitting the indicator as the sowbug underneath it. [crazy] I did think about pinching the indicator on a hook, but switched to skittering a caddis and I think I made the right decision. [  ]
Matt
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
The indicator hatch is one of my favorite times to fish...[laugh][laugh]
[signature]
Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation:
0
FG,
I had a guide show me me the "basics" on the lower provo river for about 4 hours.
This was about two years ago. I have done the exact setup time and time again. Here
Lately I have noticed that all I do is roll cast, watch the indicator, mend, and repeat.
It has gotten boring. For me, it has made me lazy. After hawking these forums for the
better part of a year I noticed people do many different things. (People on this board
are awesome BTW). I can make a sure bet that many newbies do the same thing.
Hell, I have never even tried a dry fly but a few times. The excitement of catching a fish sways me to stick with what has caught fish in the past. I suppose I just have to buckle down and accept the fact that there are times I will not catch fish through experimentation. Guess I will eventually find what works during certain times.
I try and fish with a partner as much as possible to learn new things. That has helped
a lot.
p.s Thanks for the rod suggestion. Looks like I'll be looking for a shorter lighter weighted rod with med action. And thanks for the leaders. Check is in the mail.
[signature]
Posts: 171
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation:
0
I was on the Henrys Fork Outlet a few days ago and the cuthroats were everywhere false spawning. I put my indicator almost to my line because the water was very clear. As it went over fish I would of thought they would hit it but they would move out. I took it off. I have had guides in Idaho and Montana tell me after July they dont use indicators or bead heads. Who knows,I dont.
[signature]
Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation:
0
Well I went out and bought a rod. I am too impatient to wait for something to come in the mail. Got a 7'6 4 wt rod. I skimped out on the rod allowing me to buy better fly line. Can anyone recommend a good line for a 7'6 4 wt rod? Fishing mostly small streams/rivers. Price doesn't matter.
Thanks
[signature]
Posts: 68
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation:
0
Wow- why skimp on the rod? For a better line? Ok- my mind works the opposite, I'll buy the best rod I can't afford, and skimp on a cheaper line, until I can buy the one I really want. Replacing a line is a lot cheaper than the rod...
You'll get more out of a good rod throwing a mediocre line than a medicore rod throwing a good line.
My 2 more cents.
I intially came back to say that although I use a modified "provo bounce rig" with an indicator, i rarely roll cast- I cast my set-up like it were a dry fly, and never get "bored" doing it. Using an indicator, any kind, on any set up, is only a way to increase the # of fish you detect. It won't make you a better fisherman, only hours on the riv er can do that.
I find it a bit like archery- there are some guys that use sights, and some that are instictive--- neither are wrong. Just different. And my opinion on the rod selection- is just different. Good luck, and tight lines!
[signature]
Posts: 19
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
I have done indicator nymph fishing mainly on the Provo River for the past 12 years. For the past 7 or 8 years, I have used the bounce method with two nymphs suspended. I prefer this method for indicator nymphing for numerous reasons - 1) the weight is on the bottom so if you get hung up it is the split-shot that you sometimes lose and not the flies and 2) I get less tangles when casting since the weight on the bottom keeps the flies separated from each other and the weight.
However, lately, I have changed everything and started Euro-nymphing with a long rod (10.5 feet, 3 weight) and sighter (I use Lance Egan's recommended setup). It has been tough learning it, but I have had reasonable success catching fish. I will probably stick to this method for now on (at least for quite awhile) as I want to really learn it. But it forces you to fish in different ways and in different water, and there are some water/runs that favor strike indicator nymphing, while other water favors no-indicator/Euro nymphing. It has been quite fun and yet also frustrating learning. It is tempting at times to just put the strike indicator back on, but I have so far resisted that temptation. Gradually it is coming to me, and hopefully I can have a lot of success with it!
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
That is cool. Are you using HEAVY flies like in Czech nymphing and are you long or short leader?
[signature]
Posts: 19
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
I have been using tungsten bead-head flies - medium to light weight. I haven't used too many heavy czech flies yet since the rivers have been quite low lately. I have a few of those heavier weighted flies handy if/when the water rises.
As far as the leader goes, that has been a source of experiementation. I have mainly been using long leaders, such as 12 to 15 feet, and raising the rod tip up/down based on the depth of the water. However, sometimes I adjust the leader down to 7 to 10 feet. The difference is in whether I use the end of my fly line hanging out of the rod tip to help with the casting. I don't cast too far of course, but having the extra long rod makes up for that. But not using the fly line to help casting makes it difficult to cast the flies if there is wind, like there was yesterday. I haven't figured out this just yet and need to find where it comforts me - a lot of experimentation is needed. I know the professionals who compete frequently have very long leaders - sometimes up to 18 or more feet. I haven't found where it will work for me yet.
One little interesting tidbit - I have found that adding a small bit of split shot on the tippet just above the bead on the fly snug next to the hook eye gets just a bit more weight if needed. I know that seems to contradict the whole point of this method, but it acts just like an extension of the bead head fly and doesn't seem to negatively affect the drift and presentation, and the fish don't seem to care. I do this when I don't want to switch to a heavier fly, but need a bit more weight for water/runs - not too much or it won't drift well, but just enough to act as a heavier beaded fly. The fish don't mind as I have still caught fish with this. The professionals who compete never suggest this - they are very good and don't need such "work arounds" but you need to remember that they can't use split-shot in competition, so they would never try this, and thus would never recommend it. I fish for fun, and use whatever works. [angelic] I am not trying to be a Euro-nymphing "purist" - just having fun, using whatever works for me.
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
I wonder is a 7' furled leader inwhich you will attach up to 6' of tippet for that 15' would work. The leaders can be cast by themselves. Might help. PM me if this interest you. I would like to know the outcome.
FG
[signature]
Posts: 19
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
I have never used a furled leader before but have always wanted to. It sounds like a good idea for the long leader setup also. I will have to give it a try.
[signature]
|
