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Are tiger musky still being considered? It seems like there is a general consensus that scofield guys don't want it treated but do want to reduce overall chub conditions. Tiger musky seem like the best solution. I have a hard time believing that tiger musky would escape into lower fish creek and thrive in any real numbers to make it down to the price river and have any influence down there. Big tiger musky just couldn't survive past the few big holes or deep water in the first few miles of lower fish creek, especially with how low the river gets during several months of the year. A mandatory catch and kill for musky in the rivers could also be added. In addition, adding tiger musky would be adding the very real potential for another species that could break state if national records. Turning scofield into a tiger trout, cutt and tiger musky lake for 4 or 5 years may allow enough of an effect on chubs to start planting bows again. But I think for now, planting bows needs to stop as it is a waste of resources. Just look at the winning rainbow over the past 10 years at the scofield ice tourny.
So if we can show that tiger musky in scofield adds very little if any risk to the river system, and also add a mandatory catch and kill to musky in the rivers, would there be any real possibility of getting them planted? If that were to happen, I don't think I would fish anywhere else for most of the year!!
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The Tiger Musky question was addressed earlier in the thread.
They cannot be introduced into Scofield because they represent a threat to native fish downstream.
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[quote Jacksonman]Are tiger musky still being considered?[/quote]
Doesn't look like it.
[quote ColdWaterCoord]Thank you for bringing up the idea of tiger musky into Scofield. This suggestion seems to arise every time we talk about Scofield and I want to take this opportunity to reply.
Tiger musky are voracious predators that would undoubtedly do a number on the chubs in Scofield. [red]However, the water management and outlet structure design at Scofield would also ensure that they would escape downstream where they would do just as good of job on the sensitive and endangered fish in the Price and Green Rivers. [/red]Tiger musky are sterile, so they would not reproduce in the rivers, but for the 8 or 10 years of their lifespan, they would be eating those native fish.
The DWR had to show that the chance of tiger musky escapement from Joe's Valley was minimal before we received approval from the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service to stock them there. We also are required to sample the stream and river below Joe's Valley each year to monitor escapement. If we do catch tiger muskies downstream of the reservoir, we will need to terminate stocking and liberalize the limit to remove them from the reservoir.
Downstream concerns are exactly why the DWR had to treat Scofield in the early 1990s. There was an illegal introduction of walleye into the reservoir at that time and we needed to remove them to protect the native fish downstream. For the same reason we are now faced with treating Red Fleet Reservoir to remove the illegally introduced walleye there.
The Aquatics staff of the DWR tries very hard to listen to input from the public and provide the fisheries that are most desirable. There are times however when we are unable to do so for one reason or another. We appreciate questions and ideas and will do our best to address each one of them.
Thanks again for asking
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources[/quote]
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That is why I asked if anything could be done to get them introduced. I had already read this response.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't tiger musky really struggle in the lower fish creek thus resulting in very few fish making it further down than a mile or two. Have any studies shown tiger musky to do well living in rivers? I have only caught a few tiger trout in the river and most of those were in the first mile and a half. If tiger trout struggle to thrive in te first 2 miles of river, I have a hard time believing many musky would get down to the price river, let alone do well and thrive.
In the other lakes you rarely hear about many musky living in the rivers. Sure some escape and travel the river to grow big in the next reservoir. But I haven't heard if big musky being caught in the rivers. They just use the river on occasion to get to the next big water. And the lower price river goes down to a trickle for a late portion of the year.
It would also seem that mandatory catch and kill on the river could be placed and maybe some sort of change to the dam outlet to prevent musky from getting down.
It really seems that musky would be the best option for scofield.
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Well the big question there is: How do fish get over the dam and into the river in the first place? Through the turbines or? Where the water is released?
Couldn't you make some kind of design change that would prevent fish from getting down stream? I do not know that much about the various ways fish make it from the top of the lake down into the drainage below the dam.
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Hello,
I will reply to Gemcity's question first of how escapement occurs from Scofield. Scofield is an irrigation and culinary water reservoir, not a power generation one. The outlet and spillway are both not screened and fish easily escape from the reservoir, especially when it is spilling. In 2011, I received many calls asking why we were stocking cutthroat into Lower Fish Creek below the dam. We didn't. The reservoir started spilling within a week or so after we stocked and hundreds, if not thousands of cutthroat were washed over the spillway.
The problem with tiger musky escapement would also occur in the spring when flows are high. These conditions would be conducive to allowing those fish to move downstream to the Green River quickly. It is true that the flows in Lower Fish Creek and the Price are low in the summer which would probably prevent downstream movement, but even then, the monsoonal summer rains may allow movement to the Green. Following the Seely fire in 2012, ash and debris from the Gordon Creek area made it to the Green approximately 24 hours after a rain event.
High flows either in the spring or summer are difficult to fish, making a catch and kill ineffective at the times when the fish are most likely to escape and/or move.
Pike and muskies both do well in large rivers in their native areas and pike are flourishing in the Green River now. I personally have little doubt the tiger musky would escape from Scofield and would easily find their way to the Green River.
The DWR is investigating ways to screen either the outlet and spillway at Scofield or Lower Fish Creek to prevent downstream movement, but nothing has shown itself to be a viable and economical option at this time. We are still looking.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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[quote Fishrmn]
I'll say it, even if w&b won't. Otter Creek. Huge Tigers. Chubs currently pretty much under control.
[url "http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/officers-on-patrol/812-great-fishing-in-southern-utah.html"]http://wildlife.utah.gov/...n-southern-utah.html[/url][/quote]
I saw a picture of a 27" rainbow from the O.C. through the ice just a few days ago. Beautiful fish. Otter Creek has historically been a producer of big trout. The only problem with that reservoir is harvest. There is no slot, and yet fish still seem to get big.
[quote brookieguy1]Where in Hell's bathroom do you find a lake with lots of 4-5lb. rainbows in Utah? If that were ever the trade-off for the tigers in Scofield I say POISON IT! But I know better there are no rainbow fisheries in Utah that consistantly produce numbers of 4-5 pound 'bows so let Scofield be until it crashes then poison it and start over. [/quote]
You know better than to ask a question like that. Especially with the answer being so close to you. You know that the big "M" is producing whoppers right now. You also know that this next summer should be one of numerous big trout as well.
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[quote ColdWaterCoord]Hello,
I will reply to Gemcity's question first of how escapement occurs from Scofield. Scofield is an irrigation and culinary water reservoir, not a power generation one. The outlet and spillway are both not screened and fish easily escape from the reservoir, especially when it is spilling. In 2011, I received many calls asking why we were stocking cutthroat into Lower Fish Creek below the dam. We didn't. The reservoir started spilling within a week or so after we stocked and hundreds, if not thousands of cutthroat were washed over the spillway.
The problem with tiger musky escapement would also occur in the spring when flows are high. These conditions would be conducive to allowing those fish to move downstream to the Green River quickly. It is true that the flows in Lower Fish Creek and the Price are low in the summer which would probably prevent downstream movement, but even then, the monsoonal summer rains may allow movement to the Green. Following the Seely fire in 2012, ash and debris from the Gordon Creek area made it to the Green approximately 24 hours after a rain event.
High flows either in the spring or summer are difficult to fish, making a catch and kill ineffective at the times when the fish are most likely to escape and/or move.
Pike and muskies both do well in large rivers in their native areas and pike are flourishing in the Green River now. I personally have little doubt the tiger musky would escape from Scofield and would easily find their way to the Green River.
The DWR is investigating ways to screen either the outlet and spillway at Scofield or Lower Fish Creek to prevent downstream movement, but nothing has shown itself to be a viable and economical option at this time. We are still looking.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources[/quote]
Paul, my friend, thank you for taking the time to respond to us on here. I for one really appreciate it and I'm sure everyone else does too!
If the plan to treat the lake is estimated around 1 million $ give or take... I would have to think some kind of mechanical screening system could be put in place and be less expensive. But that does not take into consideration the costs of continually stocking Tiger Muskies.
This would be great news if they could develop a "screen" of sorts. Thanks again!
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PBH, I know there are SOME 4-5lb. 'bows in lots of Utah waters. I'm talking as in large percentages. Like one out of ten caught would be that size. There might be 2 lakes in Utah, and the big "M" isn't one of them.
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brookie -- we'll see. Let's see how things look this summer. I think it's going to be a pretty good year...
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Hey ColdWater, sicne the topic of Tiger Trout is on the table, what other lakes are in consideration for Tiger Trout? I know they have been tried at several with poor results.
May I make a suggestion that some be planted in Porcupine? This place could use some thinning too, but of the Kokanee variety. No chubs in there, but plenty of stunted Kokes to grow some big predatory fish.
If this were not an option I also like the idea of Lahontan Cutts. They get even bigger than Tigers.
Just a thought.
Thanks
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The best way to propose different species for any reservoir in the state is to contact the Regional Manager responsible for the water. In the case of Porcupine, you will need to talk to the manager in our Ogden office. He will be able to discuss the pros and cons of management at the reservoir with you. The phone number for all of the offices can be found in the Fishing Guidebook.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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