Ah, The Irony (Newton)

[Pharticus]

Stumbled across this tonight. Sad state of affairs, really...
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[catmaster23]

All those years of growth down the drain, I say shame on the DWR for not trying to at least save some of them by transplanting. Makes me physically ill, what a waste.
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[setthehook]

I just love how the dnr is always thinking things through...
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[wormandbobber]

[quote catmaster23]All those years of growth down the drain, I say shame on the DWR for not trying to at least save some of them by transplanting. Makes me physically ill, what a waste.[/quote]

I say shame on people for having no clue as to how things work...the reality is that the DWR has no crystal ball and cannot foretell the future as some of you seem to think! The reality is that transplanting a few fish from one lake to another is not as simple as throwing them in a hatchery truck and dumping them somewhere else...the DWR has to follow protocol including state and federal laws unlike the local bucket bio who doesn't.

The shame in this situation isn't the DWR's inability to transplant some fish it is the water user's inability to recognize the value in keeping some water in the reservoir!
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[Fishrmn]

+1
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[PBH]

[quote setthehook]I just love how the dnr is always thinking things through...[/quote]



??

I don't get this comment. What should the DWR have done? They took an irrigation reservoir and planted some fish in it. The fish grew. Anglers like fishing for those fish. The water owner used the water. The fish now have nowhere to swim.

Should the DWR have NOT stocked the fish in the first place? Wouldn't that have been worse?

Wow. Finicky bunch here. True case of "damned if you do. Damned if you don't".



Oh. Wait. It's all because of rain. DWR forgot to budget for rainfall. That's it. Maybe next year they'll get some rain in the budget?
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[chugg]

No they should never have been placed in newton! This happened back in 02. Did they learn their lesson? No. Tiger musky should not exist in utah. The money wasted on this program sickens me. What could the dwr do with all that extra money? Better managent and stocking of both our warm and cold water fisheries?
On top of all that, why bother with the crossbreeding? Sterilization occurs during the incubation of the eggs. Why not use true musky or pike? What a waste of time and money. Newton was a fine fishery before the intro of tigers. The bass, catfish, anglers did a fine job keeping the baitfish in check. No biased opinion here! Do away with the tigers in newton!
Actually kind of get a kick out of it. Tons of posts about the demiseof the program and one post when they announce the ability to move forward with the program. Take it away and people care awhole lot. Give it back and no one cares a bit. Atleast no one shows it.
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[PBH]

[quote chugg]No they should never have been placed in newton! ...

...Better managent and stocking of both our warm and cold water fisheries?
...

... Newton was a fine fishery before the intro of tigers. The bass, catfish, anglers did a fine job keeping the baitfish in check. [/quote]


Oh.

Wait.

I'm still .

Did the tiger musky cause all the water to drain out of the lake??
Wouldn't the bass and catfish also struggle without any water??

Also -- could you give me an idea of how much money the DWR spends stocking tm's? If they're wasting all that money, i'd like to know how much money it is we're talking about. That would be great if you could find out. Also, can you compare that amount with the amount it would take to reintroduce bass and catfish?


As far as Newton goes, i don't think anyone can complain about the management. In fact, it sounds to me like fisheries management has been great -- if it was poor, nobody would give a damn whether the lake had water or not! Obviously, they are doing something right because anglers are being vocal! I have to applaud the DWR for being able to produce some trophy fishing at Newton for periods of time when the reservoir has water in it. That's a pretty fine accomplishment, if you ask me.

What you need is water. It's water that is the problem. Not fish. Not fish management. Water. Get the water back, and you'll end up with a nice fishery again. Go complain on the Water User's board.
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[setthehook]

Just doesn't make sense why they would invest money into a small body of water that they can not regulate the the level in. Knowing from newtons history that it has drained completely in the last 10 years and on years where water is more scarce it is likely to do this again and again. Unless they can make a deal with the water owners... to ensure it maintains enough water to avoid winter kill. Id sure like to see this money spent elsewhere. Maybe some where that the investment would be long term. Dont get me wrong it was a joy catching them at times. although the quality of bass fishing sure declined. It is unfortunate those tigers where just getting to be trophy sized and now they will likely have to start over. If the production of tiger muskies was cheep and easy.... it would be a different story..... I don't think it is though....

Just kinda seems like it was a poor investment. And now with the money they are spending to rebuild the ramp and put a parking lot in. It wont be much fun to fish anymore anyway. all they did was make it easier for large ski boats to put on. That lake is too small even when its full for more then about 5 of them.
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[wormandbobber]

[quote chugg] Why not use true musky or pike? What a waste of time and money. Newton was a fine fishery before the intro of tigers. The bass, catfish, anglers did a fine job keeping the baitfish in check. No biased opinion here! Do away with the tigers in newton!
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Hmmm...this little quote alone could give me the fodder to reply in pages upon pages of real information. But, judging from the tone in your post i won't waste my time because you won't listen anyway. What I will say is this: I loved fishing Newton prior to any intro of tiger musky and the only significant change I saw after they were introduced was the possibility of catching a really big fish that previously didn't live there. So, I am as to why you complain about them....could you enlighten me? What harm did their intro do?

From my vantage point, all they did was help improve the fishery!
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[setthehook]

"could you give me an idea of how much money the DWR spends stocking tm's? If they're wasting all that money, i'd like to know how much money it is we're talking about."

Id like to know that number as well..... Sure seemed like a big deal when they lost there breeding stock....
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[setthehook]

http://youtu.be/Z2DxDPHjSak


need i say more???
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[wormandbobber]

[quote setthehook] http://youtu.be/Z2DxDPHjSak


need i say more???[/quote]

Yeah....so musky eat a few bass. So? Nothing wrong with keeping the herds thinned down to increase growth rates of all that remain...!
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[wormandbobber]

[quote setthehook] Sure seemed like a big deal when they lost there breeding stock....[/quote]

You wouldn't think a big deal if the DWR also lost their breeding stock for LMB or SMB or RBT or any other fish regularly caught in Utah also?

It was a big deal because it made it much more difficult to stock tiger musky...and costly. My bet is that if a brood program for musky cannot be developed the tiger musky program will end...just like it would for LMB, SMB, or any other stocked fish in Utah.
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[chugg]

Please, educate me?.!
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[chugg]

The program is alive and well. They bought more musky from south carolina and something like 4200 tigers from South Dakota.
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[setthehook]

Im relieved to hear that they where only eating a few bass i thought it might be a lot. And i kinda thought tiger musky where a hybrid species making it a little more complicated to breed them. but im glad to know they aren't any different then bass or catfish. WEW!!! I'm relieved.
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[Fishsticker]

[quote wormandbobber][quote catmaster23]All those years of growth down the drain, I say shame on the DWR for not trying to at least save some of them by transplanting. Makes me physically ill, what a waste.[/quote]

I say shame on people for having no clue as to how things work...the reality is that the DWR has no crystal ball and cannot foretell the future as some of you seem to think! The reality is that transplanting a few fish from one lake to another is not as simple as throwing them in a hatchery truck and dumping them somewhere else...the DWR has to follow protocol including state and federal laws unlike the local bucket bio who doesn't.

[#ff0000]The shame in this situation isn't the DWR's inability to transplant some fish it is the water user's inability to recognize the value in keeping some water in the reservoir[/#ff0000]![/quote]

Great points, until that last statement. You are right the DNR did great. But something that you must remember is that the water belongs to the farmers of that area. The dam was improved in the 40s if I remember correctly for the sole purpose of providing water for farmers. Maybe you should go to the farmers and explain to them that they need to give up their livelyhood as well as that of their employees so we can have fun catching fish. I don't think they will agree with your assesment of "value"
I think that we need to be grateful for the opportunities that we have to fish in this great state and understand that as the weather changes from year to year so will our fishing opportunities.
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[chugg]

As for the musky that ate my bass, choke and die! I feel that the musky did more than thin the herds. Over the years as the musky got bigger so did the forage base they desired, changing from perch and crappie to lmb. Seen several dead musk the past few years choke and die from trying to eat 3+lb lmb. Bass still caught in throat. Not just dead on shore.
And I will say it again no they should not have put them back in newton knowing that it will drain again and again. History has a way of repeating itself. We all know that.
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[wormandbobber]

[quote chugg]As for the musky that ate my bass, choke and die! I feel that the musky did more than thin the herds. Over the years as the musky got bigger so did the forage base they desired, changing from perch and crappie to lmb. Seen several dead musk the past few years choke and die from trying to eat 3+lb lmb. Bass still caught in throat. Not just dead on shore.
And I will say it again no they should not have put them back in newton knowing that it will drain again and again. History has a way of repeating itself. We all know that.[/quote]

So, we shouldn't be stocking it with anything then...if it is going to be drained again and again?

Tiger musky are like any large predator...they eat what is available. Largemouth bass will also prey on largemouth bass...does that mean we shouldn't stock them? What about channel cats...they, too, will prey on largemouth bass! And, what about crappie? Perch? They, too, will prey on largemouth bass...
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