Mantua Court.....

[wiperhunter2]

I realise that now but when I talked to the lady at city hall, when I first got the ticket, that is not what she told me, she said even if I plead not guilty the judge would listen to me and make a decision on the spot, now I know that just isn't the case and I'm not sure why she told me that in the first place.[:/]
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[wiperhunter2]

Great idea Jeff, I just don't think there are twenty of us left at this point. They had the first group plead on Tues, the second group was today, right now I guess, 6 to 8pm, the last group will be next Tues the 14th, that's when I go in.
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[wiperhunter2]

Will do Zak, it won't happen before the 20th but I'll either send you the link or post it here, if they save such news cast.
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[catchinon]

Don't underestimate the power of stupidity, though.
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[Wormburner]

I thought I would add my 2 cents since I despise Mantua and their outright dishonest practices. I have to agree with Catchinon's comments. Anytime you are charged with anything (even a ticket) your first step is to appear in court and enter a plea. Pleading guilty ends the process and you then pay the consequences in cash or jail. If you plead innocent then you have to return and try your case. You have little hope of winning in Mantua because the police and judge are both residents, and though the judge isn't supposed to lie, the police are legally allowed to do so outside of court. So rule number 1 is never believe anything a police officer is saying. I called the Davis County courthouse out of curiosity and asked if you could ask for a change of venue and have the case tried in Brigham City or elsewhere but it has to be tried in the jurisdiction where the ticket was issued. So you are at the mercy of the Mantua Kangaroo Court. I'm sure there are hundreds of stories about the local constable so I won't add mine, but I will say that my 1 brush with the law there was for parking on the sand next to the ramp (1 tire about 4 inches onto it) and being yelled obscenities at for 20 minutes while my 5 and 7 year old sons sat there listening. Great lesson about respecting authority and supporting the police (not). With all that being said I have to say that some lunatic driving a black Chevy 2500 with one of those plastic bed covers was parked so far out in the road that I couldn't get past him in a Highlander. But that's beside the point. Good luck with KSL. Maybe we can get the legislature to reconsider their bill from last year.
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[RavenBlackbird]

Tin-Can - 100% with you. I'll pass on Mantua. There are many other (and better) places to fish.
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[gmwahl]

Hey Curt,

The way it works is if you plead "guilty" then the judge WILL hear what you have to say after you say "guilty", but if you plead "not guilty", by law he cannot hear anymore of it until the trial date. If you plan to plead guilty just to put it behind you then it would serve you well to still plan on a good explanation backed up with whatever you have for evidence and it just might get you a greatly reduced fine. If you plead "not guilty" then you won't be allowed to explain anything right then and there and a trial date will be set. This will be your chance to fight it with evidence, not at your first court date (arraignment). Judges are not allowed to let you explain BEFORE declaring your plea, so remember that.
A judge will almost always allow you to explain the circumstances (although he is not required to) before pronouncing judgment if he is treated respectably.

I got a ticket at Montpelier reservoir years ago for being over limit because I caught three trout at Montpelier reservoir (limit is six) and then stopped at the pond below the lake and started fishing. The pond below has a limit of two and I had no idea. I thought it was just the generic six trout limit (my responsibility, I know). The CO watched me catch my fish on the reservoir and then admitted to me that he waited to see if I would fish on the pond below with the trout that I had in possession. I parked next to his truck and even talked with him for about thirty seconds while I grabbed my pole and flies and he STILL didn't mention to me or warn me that I couldn't fish with the three I had in possession. As soon as I took the first cast he stopped me dead in my tracks and wrote me a ticket.

In court I plead guilty because I was clearly guilty (but ignorant of the regulation difference), but then the judge gave me a chance to explain before he passed judgment. After explaining things he agreed with me that the CO should have told me first that I couldn't fish with the fish I already had in possession and he gave me a token fine for some small amount that I don't remember anymore and sent me on my way. Fair enough!

Bottom line.....be prepared to plead your case to some extent still if you decide to plead guilty. It just might help you get a small fine instead of the big one.

Mike
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[PhatWeasel]

We have reached out to Brigham city as well to get the signs fixed.
Rick Bosworth <RBosworth@bcutah.org> Wrote: “Brigham City is working on signs and will be making changes soon to clear up confusion to those parking along the dike road.” Feel free to reach out to him as well.
Frustrations all around with the tickets I agree and the process. My focus is to take away the opportunity for future anglers to have to go through the same experience we are going through now. The city of Mantua are notorious for this type of behavior. If you knew your city was know for these type of behavior (for years and years) you would think you would want to clean up these discrepancies. But nope mantua keeps these signs up so they can bring in revenue. Bottom line. It doesn’t benefit them to change signs and have clear direction. So why change. We are going at it from a different angle. Take away the opportunity for Mantua to prey on others. Hopefully this will get somewhere.
I’m excited some of you are actually going to court taking it to the next level. Good luck! ....and I’ll be tuning into KSL on the 20th at 10:00 to see their report.
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[Kent]

[quote gmwahl]

The way it works is if you plead "not guilty" then the judge WILL hear what you have to say after you say "not guilty", but if you plead "guilty", by law he cannot hear anymore of it until the trial date.

[/quote]

You may want to revisit your language in this sentence.
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[gmwahl]

Thanks Kent, its revised. I'm prone to dumb mistakes!

Mike
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[wiperhunter2]

From what PhatWeasel said: [quote PhatWeasel].
The judge didn’t want to hear any information, nothing from what we brought just a not guilty or guilty from your mouth.
Bottom line if you are going to go up there next Tuesday, be aware of the sham. They just want to hear guilty/not guilty and if not guilty you will get a court date that is months out. [/quote]

I'll take in my proof but at this point I don't see it doing any good. If the judge lets me say anything, I'll just say I'm getting old and did not understand the confusing signs, maybe tell him that this is the first parking ticket I have ever received and wear my vets hat.[] After reading what PhatWeasel said, I'm going to agree with him, not sure if pleading not guilty will do me any good and I might end up paying more that the $75 fine, especially if the second court appearance is in Mantua.
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[gmwahl]

Best of luck to you Curt. I hope they don't screw you too hard, but I'm not holding my breath.

Mike
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[wiperhunter2]

Thanks Mike, guess I'll find out tomorrow evening.[]
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[BURLEY]

Curt, is KSL going to show up to observe any of the court happenings?
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[wiperhunter2]

Not that I'm aware of.
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[BURLEY]

Might I suggest notifying them about your court date. They may use it to give their report the full story; from parking to judgement.
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[wiperhunter2]

I already did that last week, they wanted me to let them know what the outcome was, so I'll for sure let them know about that.
While I'm thinking about it, I think I'll contact them again and see if they ever got an interview with Mantua city.
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[wiperhunter2]

KSL, contacted me again today and said the city of Mantua declined to do an interview with them. They also said the segment they are going to air on the Mantua ticket issue is going to be delayed one day but will be shown on 21th, on the 10pm news.
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[BURLEY]

Curt, are you going to Mantua tonight and what time? Have you already plead guilty or not? Is anyone going with you? I'm interested in attending. It's been a long time since I have seen a Kangaroo.
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[wiperhunter2]

Yes, it's tonight between 6 and 8 PM. I'm going alone, it's to plead guilty or not guilty. Another guy was with us that day but he drove up himself and of course he received a ticket too, so he will be there.
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