Utah Premium Member board

[MasterDaad]

The premium forum as a place for information that wouldn't ever be on the open forum anyway. So the division is not between posting information public or private, it's a division of posting public or not posting at all.

As long as that is the use case, the existence of the premium forum cannot harm the public forum.

I think that's the way most the users view it. It's not a "big table - little table" discussion. Although I certainly see why some would view it that way.

If the premium forum ever becomes a drag on the open forum, I, for one, will stop being in favor of it.

For now, that is not what it is.
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[remo_5_0]

[quote MasterDaad]The premium forum as a place for information that wouldn't ever be on the open forum anyway. [/quote]

Ya, like when you gave us the GPS coords. for the secret spot on lake X, time of day, depth, tactics and bait...that was super awesome, thanks again!!! [laugh][sly]
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[fmrusmc]

I dont post enough fishing reports to be allowed in there. And I am fine with that. Leave that place for the BFT elite. I stopped reporting after I got ridiculed for fish handling. That gets old. And God forbid if I keep a trout or 4 and eat them! That's why I have turned into a lurker. I post a few things here and there. And no, I am not one of those guys who will hijack a spot because of a good report. I find myself a decent enough fisherman to find my own spots to fish. I prefer it that way. So the premium forum? I dont like it but at the same time, I juat dont care. I dont think its a good idea though.the privileged few can have it.
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[remo_5_0]

I think everyone has missed the point of that forum, it seems that members can get in with time and participation, what is bothersome is that anyone on the internet can Google BFT and read the open board, posts with 5-10k views are not members of BFT that are being excluded from a premium forum, it is the general lurking public that has no interest in joining just reading (lurkers).

I am posting my same reports on the open board with maybe a little less detail, and as elite status, that's a crock. If someone posts on the open forum for help with something I doubt they would get shunned by anyone, and you can catch and keep/kill all the fish you want within the law. []
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]As with most things in life, this is a matter of personal perception...based on personal life experiences and personal outlooks. Different things to different people...different strokes for different folks.

Starts out with why someone puts up a post. Is it to openly help anybody who might be looking for info? Or is it just a brag post? Far too few of the former and far too many of the latter. Now that braggers are able to post twice...twice as nice.

I have said all I am going to say on the issue. I'll just quietly fade out and let things resolve themselves. And they will. Watch the numbers folks.
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[Charina]

[font "Calibri"]I don’t have much of a dog in this debate. I honestly have almost zero desire to access the private forum, aside from a little bit of curiosity to see how different the information provided is. Still, I will comment, as I don’t want to see the activity of the BFT Utah forum diminished. I don’t mean to be condescending in saying that I think it is self-evident why such a forum would not be beneficial to the health of BFT Utah activity. I honestly would be surprised if anyone didn’t get it, but yet sense some don’t – either that or their own personal desires are deemed to be more important, which I take exception with as well. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]I generally don’t post much in the way of reports. I contribute where I can, when I have some information no one else has yet provided, or I’ve been somewhere recently, or on the rare occasion I might have some insight that others don’t. But I don’t generally like recognition, or being out front . . . I just don’t like attention and shy away from it. So I don’t post many reports because I’m a bit of a different person from many posters in that respect.[/font]
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[font "Calibri"]I get the needs/wants for differing access levels. I implemented and ran a forum system that had open access, member access, and Board of Directors access limited forums. I’ve been involved with sensitive harvestable wildlife information (far more sensitive than fish or big game species), and have seen that misused. I really think I do have at least a rudimentary grasp on some of the needs/wants to restrict information in a forum setting.[/font]
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[font "Calibri"]Given that background, I have a few thoughts on the private forum.[/font]
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[font "Calibri"]I find it a bit ironic that an activity intended to be seen and to get recognition from known and unknown individuals (posting to a public forum – a mild and benign form of bragging to a wide audience) generates any complaints about too many people seeing it! Yes, yes, I understand the vagaries that exist that don’t fit that simplistic mold. But those don’t negate the irony of it. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]If, in your estimation, a location and pattern, and the resulting catch, are too sensitive to be shared, they are too sensitive to be shared! Period! The scope of the participants doesn’t matter! I’ve had a study site, shared personally with only a very select few individuals, ruined because it was shared with one more person by one member of that select few. Posting to a select group of active participants is in no way protective of the spot. Joe, an active participant with access to the private forum, tells his brother in law, who then slays them, who then posts it to the public forum, or at the minimum, all the people in his private circle, and the location/pattern is announced just as wide despite only posting to the private forum. I’ve seen it happen multiple times. You are fooling yourself if you think that having the protected forum accomplishes the purpose stated, or you know it’s a red herring, but it sounds good.[/font]
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[font "Calibri"]To further build on the likelihood of the above scenario that posting to the private forum doesn’t protect information: Don’t forget, in general, the individuals with the biggest mouths are the very ones in the private forum! Many of the quietest active participants in the public forum are the better secret keepers. Again, if, in your opinion, the details of where/when/what are too sensitive to be shared widely, then they should not be shared at all. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]For more than 30 years I’ve been aware and observed the ‘progression’ of fishermen from ‘catch anything, any way’, to ‘seeking the biggest/most’, to ‘limiting methods and seeking challenge’, to ‘elitist’ self-image. It is strange how predictable this is in so many people. Certainly not everyone follows this pattern, but so many do. I have a problem with the private forum as it seems to be a continuation and support of this pattern. A pattern of forgetfulness that we all started off somewhere. A pride that somehow the information we readily consumed as nymphs, should now be withheld from other nymphs. It just doesn’t feel right. It’s why, even though I have fly fished for almost 40 years now, I will not call myself a flyfisherman. Too many are elitist snobs that forget their roots.[/font]
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[font "Calibri"]What has made BFT great are people like TD and others who have openly shared. Take that away, and what is left? Just an archive of what used to be great. You might as well just start your own FB or private forum off of BFT for your select group of friends than to divide BFT into areas where information is shared, and information is not shared. I would propose that if there is going to be a private forum, that the metrics to continue maintaining access to that forum include minimum periodic posts in the public areas to 1) reply to newbs or the voluminous request for condition updates, and 2) share techniques or tactics. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]I don’t think the divide between those that want a private forum, and those that see the pitfalls of such will likely ever agree – except to agree to disagree. For example, I’ll call out FG’s not-to-distant posts about a fly pattern she shared being copied and being called someone else’s creation. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]In the ‘80s I developed a scud-like pattern one day on the tailgate of the truck when none of the regular patterns were working on the river that day. It was pretty unique. I instantly started catching fish that day and ran back to the truck to make a few more for myself and Dad. That pattern continued to produce on that river for at least two decades for myself and dad while we fished it (I haven’t fished it since the mid ‘90s). Dad and I shared my pattern freely, wanting to see others catch as many fish as we did. After a couple years, we would run into strangers that had and used the pattern, and had no clue that I’m the one that developed it. I’m fine with that. I am happy that I contributed to other’s success and happiness. I continued to do very well using it even when others were using it too. As most seasoned fisherman know, the pattern is only a part of success. FG clearly isn’t fine with an analogous situation at the berry. I don’t think there is much way of reconciling such personal differences of perspective and motivation. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]The private forum as currently constituted is a mistake. It is catering to a few when the site is maintained and built by and for the masses. If there were concerns about adequate participation in the past, those concerns are likely to grow. If it is significant enough, don’t be surprised if your sponsor cuts off your private club. I know I would if I owned the site. I’d rather pay for elaborate report posts than have such a forum existing on my server.[/font]
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[font "Calibri"]If posters on the general forum are like-happy in this selfie indulgent era, and disappointed at numerous views without many replies, then implement a “thank you” or “like”, and/or “agree” button to the forum system. There are many times I would have liked to say “thanks” for a report, or information, but didn’t feel the need to post a reply just to say “thanks” (yeah, I get the gripes from my wife too on that one). There are ways to solve some issues without creating the new issues of a private forum. [/font]
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[font "Calibri"]Anyway, that’s a few of my thoughts, as well as agreement with many previous points, which I would have clicked “like” or “agree” if the option were there. I could go on for a while, but I think I’ve spent my $0.02 already. [/font]
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[TroutBumDave]

There is this huge part of me that wants to say, "I'm officially going to post in the private forum from now on simply to annoy you emotional cry babies that blurt out your first thought without actually reading and/or comprehending what is being discussed." Every time someone in this thread uses the words "elite" or "secret garden" (give me a freaking break -- "we're smart enough to figure it out our damn selves"), a baby trout chokes on powerbait and dies. Knock it off.

The other part of me sees what TD has to say and I feel kinda bad that I post on the private forum. He is, after all, one of my hero's. I think the requirements to get in need some tweaking, and quality of posts should trump quantity, but that's not for me to decide. As for the requirements of the members in the private forum...

[quote RockyRaab]I've made my feelings known about the private forum. I'd like to address the "views vs replies" issue.

Frankly, I do not understand why someone would get their knickers twisted because their post doesn't get a bazillion replies. Most of the posts I read here don't deserve a reply, or I have no useful information to add, or I can't answer the question.

What should I do? Reply with some inane and useless comment? Why? To stroke the ego of the poster? Or should I correct the poster's grammar? That seems to generate a shirtload of additional replies so perhaps that's the ideal course of action.

As I understand it, in the private forum, each person is required to post and is required to reply to every single post he/she reads. If I were a member there, I think I'd reply with a grammar correction.[/quote]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Half of the post in there just say "thanks" or "nice fish", which is pointless. The members of that forum obviously don't have an issue of not posting or contributing, so having those guidelines seems rather redundant. Perhaps a requirement should be that everyone has to post two public reports for every private... Or something.

Anyway, I think I'll stick with my original thought of, "Cry harder", while still maintaining my respect and admiration for Pat.



p.s. The private forum is really boring -- you all aren't missing a darn thing!
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[Theekillerbee]

Certainly a unique topic. While there are many of us "old timers" that wish for the "good ol days" of BFT when Predator and BLM were kings of the hill, and there were a handful of very active members, with very few lurkers, but I don't think it's ever going to happen. I think BFT is a great place, I've met a lot of really good people from here, and I still think its a nice place to come learn from the people on here. I agree that there are many here that are only stopping by to eat at the free buffet, but there are many others who are genuinely trying to help out. Is there a place for a private section? Probably. Is it absolutely needed? Probably not. But if members asked for it, don't you think the mods should try to accommodate those wishes? I think it's a reasonable thing to do.

I hope all of you "unqualified" peeps don't feel to bad about not being allowed in the sand box. Heck, I meet all the requirements, but they still don't let me in. (Sure hope it's not that way in Heaven!)
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[RockyRaab]

One final comment to add to what TBD said:

It does not matter what goes on in the private forum. What matters is the perception of what goes on in there by those not allowed in. Any "Members Only" situation will generate suspicion in the minds of those not allowed in. Suspicion that something nefarious is going on.

That, in turn, generates resentment, jealousy, and anger. Ultimately, it destroys any possibility of mutual support. or fellowship. That's why I predicted that the private forum will be harmful to BFT. The Utah State forum seems to be by far the most active of all. Wreck the Utah forum and you wreck BFT. Suicide by secrecy.

I'm done.
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[GEEZER]

Ahm afeared thet elitizum dun come ta BFT an BFT dun gone ta hell!
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[clebreto]

Wow, haven't been on here in a while (work and other priorities) and I won't be back. Which I'm sure will make of the elitist happy.

Lurkers are the last reason I stopped posting reports. The attacking, provoking and trash talk are what caused me to stop posting reports and to dismiss my value just because I haven't posted in a while is aggravating.

If anyone (lurkers included) wants to read my posts that is great, if they can learn something from them that is even better. I don't care if they signup, or reply, my reason for posting it to hopefully help someone have a successful fishing trip.

To use the justification that your "honey hole" got over ran with people is poppycock. Anyone that has been fishing for any amount of time knows better than to divulge their "honey hole." You just want to blame someone, take ownership of your actions and live with the consequences.

The private form are for members who feel their opinion and posts are too important for everyone "elitist."

TDT
"I stated that sometimes I needed a place to post up where the masses won't see." "Without the premium the report would never be posted, and no one would be able to enjoy it at all."

So what you are saying is the masses aren't worthy and only the premium elite can enjoy it.

MasterDaad
"If the premium forum ever becomes a drag on the open forum, I, for one, will stop being in favor of it."
Who determines if it is a drag on the open forum you, the mods, who? I feel this thread alone proves that the private forum causes a drag on the entire Utah fishing forums as a whole.

Charina
You said it better than I ever could have, great post.


Good bye.
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[TroutBumDave]

I see that your post resulted in the death of at least three baby trout, while your cry baby attitude probably killed at least a half dozen more.

You know that old saying about not letting the door hit you? I hope it cuts you in half, fish killer.
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