Pineview dead crappie

[talyn]

Went to Pineview for the first time this year and the lake is covered with dead crappie. All were about 3 inches in length. Any idea why so many floaters?

[Crimson]

kutv news piece on the subject says die off due to high water temperatures.
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[muirco]

Weird! You would think they would go deeper if needed, but don't know how crappie behave.
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[talyn]

Interesting, fish finder showed 75 deg. That was in the morning and I did not see what it was in the afternoon before we left.

[Tin-Can]

That's strange. I never see any dead Crappie at Willard, and it is more shallow and gets warmer than Pineview.

Got to be some other explanation, I think.
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[talyn]

Good point, we saw just as many floaters in the narrows section of Pineview where the water is deep as on the east side of the lake where it is shallow.

[Jedidiah]

Not that I know a ton about it, some folks with more biology experience could chime in but I imagine two factors are the fact that Willard has more surface area to absorb oxygen and a bit more structure underwater for schools of crappie to spread out.

The need to cram into smaller spots is probably increased by the (debateable) fact that while the crappie are overpopulated at Pineview, they also have a predator that targets them more actively than in Willard. So you have a big crop of this year's recruits sitting in limited cover that is shallow and badly oxygenated, held in there by roving tiger muskies.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]I have sent an inquiry to DWR and will post the reply.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]There have been large numbers of crappies dying at Willard in the past...especially after shad were introduced. The young of the year grow to a certain stage and if there is not enough food for them they starve. Huge numbers of small crappettes on the surface at daybreak...cleaned up by the terns and gulls before the sun got over the mountain.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]In Pineview the dead fish seem to be of various sizes. It could be a combination of factors...food availability, water quality, etc. Hopefully we can find the true cause and that it will not completely decimate the crappie population.
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[Therapist]

My bet is that the fish are staying in the shallow water where all the grass and vegatation is, staying away from the predators and boat traffic. Got a quick hot spell that took the oxygen out of the water and boom, fish kill. The rapid draw down could also have something to do with it, or someone dumped something in the water upstream and precipitated the fish kill !!

[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]One thing that has happened to a lot of waters is having heavy runoff from burn scars. The ash contains a few things that are not good for fish when mixed with water and dumped into habitat.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]The main question that occurs to me is why just the crappies? Whatever is affecting them should also wipe out young smallies, largies and bluegills...if not perch. They all share the same zones and eat the same foods...if they can find any. And what about the tiger muskies? They are a fish of cold northern waters that are especially sensitive to radical changes in water temps and chemistry.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Got a response from Chris Penne. Thanks, Chris.[/#0000FF]

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Yes, we've got some info. The Standard Examiner did a pretty good article on it. [url "https://www.standard.net/news/environment/thousands-of-fish-dead-at-pineview-officials-say-water-quality/article_73717c62-2071-53dc-9025-fba54e60282c.html"]Here's a link[/url]. A few additions I'd make would be that this is pretty common with black crappie across their range. It's not uncommon for big year classes of crappie to undergo die offs like this. In the case of these fish, they were spawned in 2017 during the high water that year. They had a similar die off last year, but the die off wasn't as large and not nearly as noticeable as the fish were 2" at the time as opposed to the 4" long they are now. The short of it is they are crowded, hot, hungry and stressed. These events typically happen during the heat of summer and that also typically coincides with reservoir drawdown. Once the water starts going down, brush and vegetation gets more limited and it seems most of the crappie that can't find that habitat choose to try to make a living in the shallows rather than go in open water and risk being food for predators. In the shallows things get hot and crowded. Warmer water holds less oxygen and we've measured temps as high as 80 degrees along the shorelines in the afternoons.

This is just a more extreme example of natural mortality that fish populations undergo all the time. We're not really any hotter than other years that I can tell, so I think the magnitude of the die off we're seeing can be attributed to just how many young crappie there are right now. The more crappie we have, the more crowded conditions get. The bright side is that even as these fish are dying there are still plenty of healthy fish to be caught in Pineview. Whether these die offs knock this year class of crappie back enough that it eventually turns out to be a small year class has yet to be seen, but there should still be plenty of crappie in Pineview. We refer to this in fisheries management as "density dependence", where the density of a year class of fish can affect it's success over time. We see density dependence in other species like walleye and kokanee, where as an example, sometimes it's better to have an average spawn and year class as the really big year classes often end up losing a lot of individuals over time to starvation, disease or other negatives that come with crowding and competition.

It's hard to say whether this will be good or bad in the long run. The way I see it, it's going to come down to how many fish we lose. If we lose enough fish that it turns into a subpar year class that could be seen as a setback. If we lose enough fish that it allows a good number of remaining fish to quickly grow to a desirable size then it will be a positive. That's one of the trickier parts of crappie management, particularly at Pineview, which is the big year classes take a long time to reach that 7-8" long that people start considering harvestable, whereas the smaller year classes are quicker to reach that desirable size. So there's pros and cons to each scenario. Overall, it's not something we're particularly concerned about but it is indeed interesting when it happens.

Hope that helps.

Chris
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[Jedidiah]

Heyyy, I was mostly right, not that it was hard to guess. Even a blind, fat, old dog with a bad knee finds a bone sometimes.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Once something has happened you can often make semi edumacated guesses as to the cause. You pretty much hit the mark. But you left out the fudge factor and you didn't consider the inverse reciprocal effect of throwback Thursdays.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]The degreed biologists can help us understand things better after the fact. Now if they only had a magic wand to make the necessary changes...and a crystal ball to let us know exactly where to go and how to fish. We already have plenty of know-it-alls that we would like to tell where to go.
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[Jedidiah]

Well heck, they could just wave the magic milfoil wand and provide plenty of cover everywhere. []
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[lovetofish]

Thank you for getting the low down on the Pineview Crappie. It's appreciated.

I've only fished Pinewiew once last fall and I was targeting Crappie. As it turned out it was a Crap(pie) Shoot with zero success. Maybe I'll try again this fall with someone who knows what they're doing. .
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Every year is different for the fall crappie action on Pineview. There are different water levels and different populations of different sized fish. And they may set up in completely different locations.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]As a general rule, you can start finding crappies right off the docks at the main launch area...and down near the yacht club docks...and in the channel in between. That starts anytime after the water starts chilling around the middle to end of September.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]Once water temps drop below 60 the perch and crappies both move deeper...being from 30 to 50 feet deep by the middle to end of October...when water temps are down to the mid fifties. That's when everybody gangs up on them from the narrows to the buoy line. And you have to be good at making vertical presentations in deep water and feeling the sometimes subtle tick of a biting crappie.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]The other big variable...as referenced by Chris Penne's info...is the year classes that are available and how large they may be. Some years all you can catch are small hand-size crappies. Other years there are some nice footlongs in the mix.
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[#0000FF]Yeah, every year is different. But if you watch the reports there will be some hints of success and you can launch your own stealth campaign to find and catch them.
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[talyn]

I was after tiger muskies when I was out there Tuesday so ultimately I am curious to know if all the easy to eat crappie makes muskie fishing that much more difficult or do the muskies only go after swimming fish?

I did not see any muskies on the surface but did have a few followers to the boat.

[Jedidiah]

Tiger muskie are called the fish of a thousand casts. Last couple of years some people have been saying those big lures that look like a duckling or rat have been working. My crappie strategy has been on ice only. I zig zag off a point or in the narrows, starting in the afternoon, until I find a place where the fish finder can see a thick cloud of invertebrates in the water column. Set up camp and wait until just after dark, the fish have come in so thick my fish finder starts detecting the bottom at 30 feet instead of 60. Ice is better at PV, that way I'm the only jerk on the lake. Even on the ice they are light biters, one hit and they quit 90% of the time.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Tiger muskies are like most predators. When they have a lot of natural food to eat, they are less likely to chase down that silly stuff that anglers show them. They also tend to feed only during a short period every day...or every other day...or however long it takes them to digest their easy meals. So unless you time your trip just right the fish will only look and flip you the middle fin.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]Not sure about them dining on already dead crappies, but they are a "cat-and-mouse" type predator that instinctively responds to prey that is wounded or in distress. So with all the crappie croaking there are probably a lot of them that swim or flop around erratically while dying from their current problems.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]During the late fall crappie sessions I have had quite a few times when I released a crappie brought up from deeper water...and had it crashed by a tiger while it struggled on the surface to get back down. A lot of anglers during that time also feel their crappies get "very heavy" while being reeled up from the depths. About 3 years ago virtually everybody fishing for crappies in the deeper water at the narrows had tales of either landing or "long line releasing" tigers that munched their crappies on the way up.
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[SkunkedAgain]

Yup I seen the dude throwing up a rooster tail on Pineview chasing down a tiger that stole his crappie on the way in one day... How long was that one Pat? Did it make 40"? I didn't think that tube of yours would go that fast, and was really surprised to see you land it on the light line you were using for the crappie. That was a fun day, I'd like to get in on another one like that... Just wish I could find them before they get in that deep of water, so you could release them without harm or having to use your return tool to get them back down to depth... Would be fun if they were a little bigger too.. Seems like they were 10-11" that year... I don't know why I like to catch crappie so much, they are just small fish, but i really like catching crappie.. Hey I appreciate you getting with Chris and getting that answer, sure appreciate Chris taking the time to get us answers too, I think that PR he does sure helps calm a lot of speculation and builds great trust with the sportsmen.. Thanks to both of you... Later Jeff
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