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I am planning to take a couple of friends fishing. They are not regular fishermen so I was just going to have them get a day license. Turns out you can't get a one day license anymore. I'm not sure when this changed, it might have been a while. I always get the yearly license.
Looks like the cheapest option is the 3 day license which is $16. That's about half price of the full year license. Makes no sense. We are being forced to pay for 3 days when really we can't go 3 days in a row.
Why can't you get a one day license? [mad]
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I am sorry to say but in Utah its all about the $$$$ that goes increasingly for any outdoor activity fishing, boating or hunting. Launching a boat at many of our Utah waters can be as high as $25 per day and that is why I purchase a yearly pass for $75.
Our big game in my opinion is for sale to the highest bidder and they have little regard for instate residence. I hunt with a group out of California and they draw a general season deer tag every other year while I have never been so lucky. That extra money they receive for a nonresident tag is more important than a tax paying resident. Maybe we need to stop paying our taxes.
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No offense taken, but I wish they didn't run it as a business and that me paying taxes in Utah meant something.
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[quote fish_fanatic]
No offense taken, but I wish they didn't run it as a business...
[/quote]
Curious how you would like it run?
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I chose a bad sentence on that one for sure but last year I paid over 30 thousand in taxes to the state of Utah and I would at least have the opportunity to pay the nonresident fee for a tag. I want nothing for free but it is disturbing to me that a nonresident has more of a opportunity to hunt deer in Utah than I do. I would gladly pay the extra money but that is not something that is offered.
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My cousin is coming in town next month and only fishing one day with me. I guess he will pay for 3 days, but that is the price if you don't want or need a yearly license. Washington state was the same when I went there.
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You may want to talk to your representatives and encourage them to give more of your tax dollars to the UDWR.
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"To me, paying $16 for a days fishing beats the Hell out of spending that and more to go to a single movie and buy a small bag of popcorn and a small drink. Just saying."
When I start thinking about how much it costs to enjoy a day of outdoor activity such as hunting or fishing, I stop and compare it to an activity I used to do: snow skiing. How much does that cost per day now? Or compare a concert price. I'm sure we can all fill in the blank with something else we could be doing with that money, and appreciate that using our great outdoors is a bargain in comparison.
Having said that, I still must take a little exception to what you said about the young being more likely to want things for "free." I hate having to pay extra just to drive up roads like Mirror Lake Highway or the Alpine Loop. Seems like all citizens should share the load as in the "old days." You might even catch me exercising a little "civil disobedience," especially if I can't find the correct amount of cash at the kiosk. And I'll probably speed a little on my way down to California tomorrow [shocked]. (BTW have you all checked out how much it costs to go to Disneyland lately?)
Bob, I for one appreciate your astute and informative posts about issues such as this. Keep up the good work.
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Good points, Craig and Kent. I was just watching, Outdoors with Adam Eakle and he was talking about one of those boats that most fisherfolks hate, the dreaded wake boat[  ]. I had no idea they cost 100 to 150k but Adam was talking to a guy that will rent you one of those boats for a meer $395 a month[crazy]. After hearing that, then reading this thread, it sounds like our sport of fishing is cheap, in comparison, even at $16 for a 1 to 3 day license.
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I am not so naive to not think that everything cost money I myself have two daughters in college. But I also would be naive to think that the way Utah's DNR is managed is perfect. On one hand I really do appreciate the great hunting and fishing that we have here, but I definitely see aspects that can be improved. I am very skeptical every time I hear someone in the Government tell me that they have all the answers as everything in life its a work in progress and generally less than perfect. I am frustrated with some aspects of the current system but overall I believe they are doing a pretty good job. I do believe that questioning how they manage our natural resources will make them better at their job and letting them go unchecked is a recipe for disaster.
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[quote fish_fanatic] ... questioning how they manage our natural resources will make them better at their job ...[/quote]
My observation is Free Fishing Day is not a loss -- it's a gain. It's a day that many who don't fish are introduced to fishing. I help with that by inviting non-fishing friends and loaning my fishing equipment. Many times, they can't go on that one day.
Regarding the running it like a business conversation, Free Fishing Day is what business would do to attract more paying customers. Perhaps a few more Free Fishing Days would get even more. If you want less of something, then tax it. Once people decide they like to fish, they will get more and more into it and the revenues come with that.
Health Clubs have membership fees. Of course, that's how they make money. To make more money, they get more customers buying memberships. Often members are encouraged to bring guests with a free pass. They also sometimes offer an introductory low rate.
One way the $16 dollars for three days can be made a better deal and still get the $16 would be to make it like deer tags where they have to notch their day and then they will still have two more days sometime that year. At least they can use the remaining days. For those who get invited out on a boat for fishing, it's not their boat and it might not be three days in a row, but it might be three invitations in that year.
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One thing to think about is that the out of state is on its own draw. Even though they are limited to ten percent of the total tags sometimes they can have better draw odds depending on how many people put in for that hunt.
So though it may seem that they are being catered to they are still limited on the number of tags available and if it isn't one of the popular units then many of the people for outside of the state may not ever choose that unit.
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Ronpaul I like that idea of more free fishing days, like a day in January to get more kids into ice fishing.
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It just happens that who I want to take fishing are younger college kids with very tight budgets. I happily pay for my Utah and Idaho fishing licenses every year. It's well worth it like you said but $16 to you or me may not be the same to someone else.
No one is asking for anything for free. Movie theaters certainly don't charge you for 3 days when you only want to go once. You are not forced to get their overpriced popcorn just to get in. You could argue the DWR is the one wanting 2 days worth of money for free.
Why can't we have a $6 -$7 1 day license? Turns out it will be cheaper to go to Idaho and pay for their non resident fishing license than to go to a local pond.
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Idaho charges you $15.00 for a 1 day out of state license and $7.00 for each additional consecutive day, so it is only cheaper by a buck. Like it has been pointed out, $16.00 to go fishing is a pretty good deal !!!
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]According to reports from the National Association of Theater Owners, the average cost of a movie ticket is about $9; which would be $4.50 an hour for a 2-hour movie or $6 an hour for a 1.5-hour movie.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]Compare that to $16 to go fishing for an 8-hour day ($2 per hour), a 6-hour day ($2.67 per hour), a 4-hour day ($4 per hour).[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]I don't go to the movies but maybe once a year - if that. But when I do, almost every person there has popcorn and a drink. You are absolutely correct that nobody forced them to buy it, but in my experience, way more then half of them do. Movie theater popcorn and a drink are well ingrained into the experience of going to the movies.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]I respect your comments AlexB, but there is no right or wrong answer to this discussion. We are talking about somebody going fishing that will only do it for maybe one day when having to pay $16 for a 3-day license. When compared to a multitude of activities such as movies, eating a good meal out, playing 18-holes of golf, etc., the $16 paid to fish for only one day really isn't a financial burden to the vast majority of folks. I understand this is not a blanket statement covering 100% of the population.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]Again, no disrespect intended and tight lines to you in all your fishing adventures.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 82 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
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After reading all of this thread, I have to chime in. I buy a annual fishing license every year. I buy an annual State Park day pass every year. I have done both for better than 15 years. I have on many years also purchased annual fishing licenses for several of my kids when they were unemployed or under-employed. I did that when it took a license and a second pole permit.
Now you can use 2 poles with just the fishing license, at about $5.00 less than the old cost of license and second pole permit. That's a positive change that Utah made after several years of anglers suggesting it on the annual DNR Fishing rules survey. I believe that change even resulted in a net increase in fishing license purchases.
Now that I'm of the state determined "senior" age, I can get a state park annual pass for less than half of what it was costing me. That is a positive for Utah DNR.
I only really have 3, not really complaints, but observations that I feel Utah needs to address .
1) I think veterans should get a break on their fishing licenses (some states give veterans fishing licenses for nothing.)
2) I have been on the water enough times at numerous places in Utah that make me firmly believe ALL boat operators should be licensed. And to get that license they would be required to pass at least a written test, renewed every 4 or 5 years just like a drivers license. That could generate more revenue to the DNR, and provide a method of punishment for bad behavior on the water by suspending or revoking that boaters license. Way too many ignorant and dangerous boat operators on the waters in this state. When I bought my first boat here in 2004, I was surprised that it required no license. I made the effort to at least take a boaters safety course on-line. I'm licensed to drive a car, was licensed to drive a big rig (CDL), am licensed to carry a concealed firearm, have been licensed at various times in my military career to operate everything from a standard 6 pax truck to a 15K articulated fork lift. Was even certified at one time to taxi a C130 (only did once or twice and only for a few hundred yards) Why should a boat here in Utah be any less important to have a trained operator behind the wheel or at the tiller?
3) This observation is much more complicated, but I don't think an impossible task. Utah really needs to hire, and train more DNR officers to provide a better presence on our waters. A substantial increase in their pay sure wouldn't hurt either. The Rangers I have met have all been polite and professional. One or two have been just a bit "under" qualified when they had to be shown in the proclamation that what they were telling me that I had to have on my boat wasn't required due to the size of the boat (under 15 feet does NOT require a boat horn). But once they saw that I had the correct equipment and was compliant with the state requirements, they thanked me and the next time they saw me, just waved and went on about their activities.
Just some personal opinions based on comparisons with other states I have lived and fished in.
[fishon]
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I actually like the $16 three day license, gives us a lot of flexibility when family comes to visit if the weather is bad or plans change, we don't feel confined to one day or that you lose much money if you can't go that specific day. And as was mentioned, it's still a helluva lot cheaper than many other things you could be doing.
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There is a lot of different ways to view this discussion but dubob is correct that there is no right or wrong way.
I feel that my initial reply to this post opened up a can of worms, sorry I had no idea that my opinion meant anything. I was merely voicing some of my frustrations with aspects of the DNR that I do not agree with. I was by no means bashing the DNR for the most part I think they are doing a good job.
I however also feel that discussions like this are a good thing because it can raise awareness of policies that may need to be changed.
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Hey TC
I agree on the Veteran thing. Most Vets I know feel pretty used up. Myself I'm 100% disabled due to a catastrophic parachute failure and 2 purple hearts. Utah lets Vets with a 60% or more buy a 5 year license for $60 bucks. Nice not to hassle with it. Don't mind paying my fair share but some guys cant. Helping them would go a long way on improving my attitude. Hang in there folks. Tug therapy takes all this bitching away most times.
pa
SFC Lee Mayo
75th Ranger Regiment
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