I have some questions/comments about learning river fishing.

[SalmonidsForever]

My former experiences with fishing have been king salmon on party boats off NorCal coast, spin-casting off the beaches of lakes/reservoirs and floating eggs for trout on small mountain streams in the Sierras. I've casted some spoons and other lures into a couple Idaho rivers with no luck but many expensive lures lost to snags. My grandfather was an avid deep-sea angler out of San Francisco and so was my father. That's the only kind of fishing they knew. I was never mentored well on river fishing and other types of inland/freshwater fishing.
 
I've been skunked most of my life and my best luck has been on salmon party boats off shore. What tries my patience the most fishing is wind knots, tangled lines, snags and lost expensive terminal tackle.
 
I've been poking around on Google lately and discovered, to my surprise, that flies can be used on spinning rods so I have a few questions and comments.
 
1. Can flies on spin tackle be used successfully for salmon and steelhead on rivers and streams, both shallow and deep and narrow and wide? I gather a clear water bobber that spooks fish not is key here along with a gentle cast. The idea of flies interests me because flies are clean to handle given that natural bait like worms, herrings, salmon eggs and roe is messy to handle. Lures like spinners and spoons get hung up a lot on snags and they are costly to lose. Spinning reels and rods are fairly easy for me to handle and it's common knowledge that fly rods are complicated to master and can't be used in tight areas with low tree branches.
2. Can a closed-face spin-casting reel like a Zebco Omega be used for flies in the manner above? They are much easier to deal with than a bait-casting reel and open-face spinning reels tend to have line management issues with short underhand casts. Sometimes the bail is open on a regular spinning reel to allow the line to drift in certain presentations. Does pushing the cast button on a "bullet" reel to feed out more line have the same effect?
3. Are there any modern good books and video training series that cover river/salmon/trout fishing in depth and also covers the use of flies on spin tackle in depth for these highly-prized freshwater/spawning-season salmonid species?
4. I want to learn the proper gear and technique for flies on spinning rods in pursuit of river/mountain lake game salmonid species. 
5. I need to learn about: dry flies, wet flies, nymphs, tying fishing knots, leaders, line selection, reel and rod selection, nets, waders, other fishing clothing, footwear, tackle boxes/bags etc.
6. I need to also learn how to scout for proper places to fish, what terminal tackle to use based upon seasons, lighting conditions, weather, climate, etc.
7. I need to know how to identify each species of salmonid by sex, age and any special metamorphosis that occurs during spawning seasons
8. I need to learn proper fishing terminology and need a good glossary for it so as not to sound like an amateur
9. I want to learn when to fish, how to fish, where to fish, and how to target what I'm fishing for through proper gear selection and method

[wiperhunter2]

Since our most active board on BFT is our Utah board, I'm going to move your post there, so you can get a better response. Again, welcome to the site.

[TubeDude]

Hope you are able to get all the info you need.  Here's a bit from me.  (See attached PDF file)

I lived all over California and have fished the Pacific coast from Cabo San Lucas to Homer, Alaska...with a great deal of time spent on the beaches and rivers of northern California and Oregon.  And on many occasions I did well by fishing flies on spinning gear.  There are many deep runs on big waters that are virtually impossible to properly work with a fly rod.  But with the right rigging and right tackle you can cast a long ways and get your flies down to the right depth...and fishing at the right speed.

To reply to another question/concern, you can fish flies on almost any kind of gear that will cast the fly/lure/weight combination you are slinging.  That includes everything from closed face reels to regular spinning reels and even baitcast rigs with heavier line and sinkers for the big anadromous species. 

I have fished flies on spinning gear from the surf in California to deep lakes in several states.  And one of the most effective ways to fish flies on some of our larger western rivers is with the "bounce" rig...with a sinker on the bottom and one or two flies on droppers above the sinker.  You adjust the amount of weight to allow the rig to just tick the rocks on the bottom as it comes downstream...from either an upstream cast or quartering across.

In still waters I have used a variety of rigs to fish flies for a multitude of "warm water" species.  I can't think of many species that I HAVEN'T caught on flies...and with spinning gear.

Obviously, chucking flies with anything but a well balanced fly fishing outfit is seldom "finesse" fishing.  But it will sometimes allow you to reach and catch fish that would be difficult or impossible with the fairy wand.  It definitely has a place in the complete angler's bag of tricks.  But it requires just as much knowledge and skill as any other method.  The more you already know about your quarry, the waters you are fishing and the feathery offerings you are presenting the better you will do.  And, of course, it takes a fair degree of proficiency in using the tackle you have chosen.  You should be able to concentrate on proper presentation and what is going on at the other end of your line, rather than being distracted by a balky reel of some other tackle malfunction.

In short, fishing flies on non-flycasting tackle is possible and effective.  But if you suck at fishing it won't necessarily make you a better fisherman.  The more basic skills you bring to the game the better you will do.

[SalmonidsForever]

Thanks, sir.

The thing I hate most about river fishing is getting hung up: snags. Does using flies on spinning equipment eliminate snags for the most part, at least? I've looked at a number of videos with fly rods and snagging never seems to be an issue with pure fly fishing tackle. The other thing I hate is twisted, messy line as I commonly experienced salmon-egg-floating on a mountain stream for pan-size trout. This involves repeated short underhand upstream casts as to a little pool or a rock in the bed of the stream and getting loose loops of line, wind knots, on the reel spool was common. I used a light open spinning reel and rod. It could also mean that my reel was not spooled with line correctly so the line lays flat when wound onto the spool.

The idea of having heavy terminal tackle, as weights, touch the bottom of a river bed or bounce over rocks to me means asking to get snagged. What I envision is a effective way to river fish with the minimal risk of getting hung up. I would think tackle that tends to float at the surface, at least for the most part, is the most snag-free. I saw a video or two where a clear in-line bobber was used. It was filled partially with water to act as a casting weight. The colorless bobber supposedly doesn't spook fish. Heavy spoons and spinners are notorious rock and fallen tree grabbers.

I have never caught a river salmon, a river steelhead or a river rainbow trout. What I am exploring are possible effective ways (tackle/technique) to do this with minimal snagging issues and messy line issues. I hate power bait, worms, herrings and other natural baits coz they're smelly and messy. Sometimes baits are a bear to try to keep on the hooks. Heavy lures sink easily and catch on things. Flies, to me, seem promising to eliminate much of the messiness in river fishing.

[TubeDude]

Thanks, sir.

The thing I hate most about river fishing is getting hung up: snags. Does using flies on spinning equipment eliminate snags for the most part, at least? I've looked at a number of videos with fly rods and snagging never seems to be an issue with pure fly fishing tackle. The other thing I hate is twisted, messy line as I commonly experienced salmon-egg-floating on a mountain stream for pan-size trout. This involves repeated short underhand upstream casts as to a little pool or a rock in the bed of the stream and getting loose loops of line, wind knots, on the reel spool was common. I used a light open spinning reel and rod. It could also mean that my reel was not spooled with line correctly so the line lays flat when wound onto the spool.

The idea of having heavy terminal tackle, as weights, touch the bottom of a river bed or bounce over rocks to me means asking to get snagged. What I envision is a effective way to river fish with the minimal risk of getting hung up.  I would think tackle that tends to float at the surface, at least for the most part, is the most snag-free. I saw a video or two where a clear in-line bobber was used. It was filled partially with water to act as a casting weight. The colorless bobber supposedly doesn't spook fish. Heavy spoons and spinners are notorious rock and fallen tree grabbers.

I have never caught a river salmon, a river steelhead or a river rainbow trout. What I am exploring are possible effective ways (tackle/technique) to do this with minimal snagging issues and messy line issues. I hate power bait, worms, herrings and other natural baits coz they're smelly and messy. Sometimes baits are a bear to try to keep on the hooks. Heavy lures sink easily and catch on things. Flies, to me, seem promising to eliminate much of the messiness in river fishing.

As you already know, it is difficult to make rash generalizations that will hold true on all types of rivers, throughout a season and for all species of trout and salmon.  No brainer.  But if your concerns are avoiding snags then you need to concentrate on rivers that are relatively clean bottom...or at least the stretches that present the fewest snags.  Some runs and holes are almost impossible to fish without snagging.

The anglers who fish the tributaries of the great lakes have developed tackle and techniques to help them get maximum fishing and minimum snags.  Most of their systems involve a system of floats, weights, lures and baits that allow them to present their offerings deep enough to catch fish but still ride above the worst of the hazards.  I might suggest looking up some websites or videos from that area.  Some of these same systems...or similar...have been used successfully on western rivers but many of them are on steep drainages that get blown out quickly during prolonged winter storms.  To be able to fish flies or any artificials successfully it requires a decent flow and good visibility.  

If your concerns are tackle problems...with problematic reels or line...you need to focus on assembling a better combination of rod, reel and line.  Everything needs to work smoothly without having to battle line coils, stuttering drag system, broken bail springs, etc.   You may wish to consider using one of the new superbraids or cofilaments on the market.  They do not have memory or boil off the spool like some monos do.  Also more sensitive to detecting subtle strikes.

I can vouch for the use of clear plastic bubbles to fish flies in a flow.  I have had great success with bubble and fly rigs on quite a few large rivers...both for fishing on or near surface and for subsurface too.  The key...as in fishing flies with a flyrod...is to make accurate casts and then get the flies to drift right without drag.  It takes some practice to reel just fast enough on the downstream float to stay up with the bubble and fly without allowing slack in the line or creating unnatural drag to spook the fish.  And unless you stay "tight", you will miss strikes.

About the only time you will have any kind of shot at steelhead or salmon...without having to risk snagging on the bottom...would be fishing summer run steelhead.  They sometimes even take surface offerings, but are at least active enough to be taken above the bottom.  Salmon, not so much.

You need to pick a couple of likely waters and get to know them well.  Spend time at local tackle shops and pick up whatever pointers you can.  Even better is to befriend someone who has already worked to acquire a good knowledge base of the waters you are targeting...and who might be willing to rideshare and mentor you.  Once you get more  in tune with your preferences and your skills you can arbitrarily eliminate those waters that are not friendly to the way you want/need to fish.  Then concentrate on refining your skills on a very few chosen waters.

[fishskibum]

you could just learn to fly fish
its not easy but rewarding
with a fly rod and reel
ya don't even need the reel
lefty no tenkara though
the biggest difference is you are using the weight of the line and the loading of the whippy stick to propel the fly vrs needing the weight of a bubble to prople the line off the reel
the fly goes where the line goes in both cases
as far as all those other questions im on a life long journey for those answers somedays I have more questions than answers

[SalmonidsForever]

I'm interested in someday fishing the mountain rivers of the Pac NW, mainly WA, OR and/or ID. My number one fish desired: a Pacific species of salmon of some kind that navigates rivers to spawning grounds. I now get my pink salmon out of cans in Oklahoma. It seems now that by reading TubeDude's replies above that a serious river salmon angler will have to risk those snag hazards to some to degree out of necessity. I'm living in Oklahoma now but I am considering buying a house in eastern Idaho in the future. Pacific Norwest is the only places in Lower 48 to river salmon fish Pacific salmon species: king, sockeye and others. My only taking of salmon has been on a party boat of the northern California coast. Party boats are nasty too. Snagging a river bed still isn't half as nasty as getting sea sick or getting tangled with other lines on a crowded party boat. If I were is seriously pursue river fishing I would want to master those skills to minimize snags while still effectively fishing. Snags are costly, time-consuming and pollute waters due to lost tackle.

What I need to do now is fetch a few modern books on the subject and perhaps a few modern videos on the subject as well. All those line-tying skills should be covered in details in book diagrams. It seems as fly-fishing offers the fewest snags with the most sophistication in casting, presentation and tackle handling. It's not for lazy folks accustomed to tossing a line in a reservoir off the shore, putting the rod in a holder while reading a book waiting for the little bell on the rod tip to ring.
Idaho, it seems, has super mountain fishing, the grandest in the Lower 48, but the Southern states have super dove hunting and easy deer hunting on the low flatlands from a stand or a blind with little strenuous hiking. The rivers and lakes of the South look dirty and catfish/bass isn't my cup of tea. I understand there's no salmon in Montana except in cans on the supermarket shelves. I was also considering buying a house around Austin, Texas, and Lone Star's a hunter's paradise for those who don't like long hikes and strenuous hill-climbing. Now the big decision: do I want to live in a state west of the Mississippi for grand hunting or grand fishing?

[Gone Forever]

As far as snags, learn to adjust. There are far enough options to make whatever adjustment is needed to meet any situation you are in.

If you are always getting snags, you are fishing to close to the bottom. If you are always losing those rigs, you are rigging wrong.
If you are fishing spinners you have to consider weight, blade shape and retrieve to adjust the depth lures run. A willow blade has less resistance so runs deeper than a colorado blade. Bigger blades have more resistance and run shallower. Beads can also effect depth by how heavy they are. When using sinkers, use 3 way swivels so the sinkers hang below the rig and are first to snag. Use tin split shot strung up the sinker line so if it snags it is usually just the bottom one or two that slide off when you pull tight on the snag. Use lighter line on the sinker line so it breaks first if snagged saving the rig.
Use bobber rigs, everything from water filled to slip bobbers including fly line bobbers. I love slip bobbers in rivers. I can use all manner of bait and jigs and flies under them, they cast great and I can adjust the depth of the bait in an instant to fit changing conditions. I can also float them in close to snags, often getting the strike just as I decide to pull it out before getting caught. Bobbers can be placed at different places on the line to get different presentations as well. Small foam floats have been used in front of and behind spinner blades for a long time. The float being close to the bait and behind the sinker can help to hold the hook up off bottom a bit to prevent snags.
Fish love snaggy areas. They have the most cover and current breaks. You have learn to fish them. by thinking about what is happening at the end of the line...not your end. Is the lure snagging, is it running 3' off the bottom and out of the zone? Is the bottom sandy, freestone, boulders, shale? Where are the current seams that form rest spots and eddies that swirl food past.
Practice, practice, practice. Pay attention to the fish and the river, figure out what is going on first, then decide how to rig. Are the fish shallow, deep, on the move, resting, feeding? (that's the best, when you can see them feeding) then figure out how you are going to get that instinct strike or temper strike or whatever it takes. Don't run all over willy-nilly. Find places you know have fish and fish them. learn them, be the guy that is seen there more than any other and it will come together for you. Keep a log so you know, "Labor day, fish thick, feeding october caddis, streamers swung through deep pools, red, orange, lime. Not purple, black, red" In a few years you will have it down.

[Joe_Hill]

My former experiences with fishing have been king salmon on party boats off NorCal coast, spin-casting off the beaches of lakes/reservoirs and floating eggs for trout on small mountain streams in the Sierras. I've casted some spoons and other lures into a couple Idaho rivers with no luck but many expensive lures lost to snags. My grandfather was an avid deep-sea angler out of San Francisco and so was my father. That's the only kind of fishing they knew. I was never mentored well on river fishing and other types of inland/freshwater fishing.
 
I've been skunked most of my life and my best luck has been on salmon party boats off shore. What tries my patience the most fishing is wind knots, tangled lines, snags and lost expensive terminal tackle.
 
I've been poking around on Google lately and discovered, to my surprise, that flies can be used on spinning rods so I have a few questions and comments.
 
1. Can flies on spin tackle be used successfully for salmon and steelhead on rivers and streams, both shallow and deep and narrow and wide? I gather a clear water bobber that spooks fish not is key here along with a gentle cast. The idea of flies interests me because flies are clean to handle given that natural bait like worms, herrings, salmon eggs and roe is messy to handle. Lures like spinners and spoons get hung up a lot on snags and they are costly to lose. Spinning reels and rods are fairly easy for me to handle and it's common knowledge that fly rods are complicated to master and can't be used in tight areas with low tree branches.
2. Can a closed-face spin-casting reel like a Zebco Omega be used for flies in the manner above? They are much easier to deal with than a bait-casting reel and open-face spinning reels tend to have line management issues with short underhand casts. Sometimes the bail is open on a regular spinning reel to allow the line to drift in certain presentations. Does pushing the cast button on a "bullet" reel to feed out more line have the same effect?
3. Are there any modern good books and video training series that cover river/salmon/trout fishing in depth and also covers the use of flies on spin tackle in depth for these highly-prized freshwater/spawning-season salmonid species?
4. I want to learn the proper gear and technique for flies on spinning rods in pursuit of river/mountain lake game salmonid species. 
5. I need to learn about: dry flies, wet flies, nymphs, tying fishing knots, leaders, line selection, reel and rod selection, nets, waders, other fishing clothing, footwear, tackle boxes/bags etc.
6. I need to also learn how to scout for proper places to fish, what terminal tackle to use based upon seasons, lighting conditions, weather, climate, etc.
7. I need to know how to identify each species of salmonid by sex, age and any special metamorphosis that occurs during spawning seasons
8. I need to learn proper fishing terminology and need a good glossary for it so as not to sound like an amateur
9. I want to learn when to fish, how to fish, where to fish, and how to target what I'm fishing for through proper gear selection and method

If you're looking to catch salmon from rivers to eat, I'd suggest sticking closer to the Pacific. Salmon that have traveled hundreds of miles to Idaho are going to be far from prime fish to eat. Fine for the smoker but far at best otherwise. Have you considered Alaska? Plus you can still land some primo quality fish in salt. If you fish smaller waters fly fishing with a fly rod is super easy for salmon. You tie a weighted streamer to the leader and cast in upstream of the fish and let it come down in the current to salmon moving upstream or holding. It's that simple with 4 of the 5 pacific salmon. My son and nephews got this down by age 10-13 within 30 minutes on the water. Unfortunately sockeye don't really bite in fresh water so you snag them by the mouth typically with a bead on the line- only it's called flossing. Not really something that takes any effort to become proficient with either. Fly fishing is a lot easier than it looks even if people frequently make it more difficult than it needs to be. The hard part in Alaska is fresh fish can be 10x harder to land than the dregs in Idaho. But with encountering many thousands of them you get plenty of chances.