Another downrigger / trolling question

[jebrown2]

Hello all, love that this site is finally working again, I appreciate the experience, wisdom (and sometime BS ) that is freely shared here on BFT.

I have a 17ft Lund Pro-sport that I use frequently for trolling.  I live in SL County so I most frequently fish Jordanelle, Rockport, and Strawberry and occasionally Bear Lake. Currently I do not have down riggers nor do I use planer boards so I typically only catch trout when I troll and have never caught a kokanee.  When I go out I am rarely skunked, but I would love to catch more fish, more frequently.  I typically fish 2 sometimes 3 poles using rod holders mounted on the back of my boat and I typically use Rapalas or similar, spoons, worm rigs (like wedding rings) or jigs tipped with worms.  I really have never used tackle like dodgers or pop gear.

If I wanted to catch more fish while trolling where are my limited $$ best spent?  Options I am considering:
1. Installing manual downriggers
2. Installing electric downriggers (seems like a big $$ investment since, in addition to the downriggers, I would need to figure out the electrical)
3. Begin using planer boards so I can fish more than 3 lines and get away from the boat
4. Invest in reels with counters and weighted line to get to depth
5. Upgrade or change out my tackle to focus more on trolling / kokanee specific rigs
6. Other options?

Thanks in advance!

[elkantlers]

If it was my boat and money was tight, I would start out with at least one manual downrigger (look at KSL Classifieds). then you can stack it with a Shuttle hawk and that will get you some kokanee. You can buy dodgers fairly cheap and you can make your own squid rigs for not too much money. Really, You could be set up for kokanee with less than $200
And, any money used in the pursuit of hunting or fishing is money well spent.

[PACMEN]

If you are trying to get depth at a lower than downrigger cost these are a few options you may consider. There are more but my 2 cents worth.

1.  Regular spinning reel with weight before your presentation.
2.  Regular spinning reel with dipsy diver.
3.  Regular spinning reel with Jet diver.
4.  Level wind reel with lead core line.

With each of these you will be hard pressed to know for sure what depth your presentation is and to get it deep enough at times. That is where the rigger excels. 
My experience has been that downriggers perform far superior to any of these.

Manual downriggers are I imagine what most of us started with.  If you go that way then choose to upgrade later to electrics there is a good market for your used manuals there by reducing the pain a little bit.
We have been using manuals for some where in the neighborhood of 15 years.  I would dearly love to change to elect. but i'm tighter than a knot on a $15.00 lure.  I just can't seem to force myself to shell out the $. My bride of 40+ years keeps telling me to buy em but dadgum the knot sure is tight and I have not been able to break it yet.

[Mildog]

As Elkantlers said you can get used or even new manual downriggers that will last a long time for not too much money. One would be great for a start two even better and stacking with stacker releases or the Shuttle hawk is pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Sinkers and diving sinkers can help but it is harder to know exactly how deep you are. Trial and error and a line counter so you can duplicate what works is an option.
Spend more money on the reels with counters than the rods, they are worth it, you don't need the most expensive but don't buy the cheapest either, you can get good trolling rods very inexpensively.

If you choose electric they are easy to hook up and don't draw that much power so if you have good battery/batteries not a big deal, but yes more costly. With care they will last a long time.

[dubob]

There are currently 6 manual downriggers for sale on KSL.  Prices range from $50 to $175.  You can buy good electrics new for less than $500 delivered to your door on the internet.  I would recommend you start out with one for each side of the boat.  It's a learning process, so start slow.  I would NOT recommend stacking your first season with DRs.  Just concentrate on learning how to use them.

With manual DRs, I would also use a Shuttle Hawk on each one.  Drop the weight to the desired depth and leave it there.  Attach your fishing line to the release clip on the Hawk and let it take the lure down to the ball.  After a fish strikes, the Hawk will be forced back to the surface unassisted and wait there for you to reattach your fishing line and take it back down.  There is no need to constantly reel the DR weight up and down all day long.  Unless you just want to exercise your arm.

[Downriggerer]

When I buy fishing gear I do ask myself what will be the most productive. But, I also ask myself what will be the most fun or add to the fishing experience the most.

Downriggers will drastically improve your fishing experience. And, most of the season, fish are deep enough to catch them on downriggers. They are also an investment in more fun because you'll be able to catch fish without the weight of a dipsy or a jet diver or weights or lead core or whatever else people use. In my opinion, those things are not "fun" for kokanee or trout.

Planer boards as made now are a giant pain in the butt. Clipping the planer board to the line, like you would with a dipsy or whatever just adds additional complication to your life and results in a lost fish when you are trying to reel in after you get a hit. With that said, a few modifications on the planer board and they are one of the best fish catching devices around. They are not "fun" straight out of the box. And, they are not "fun" clipped inline. But, if you can work around that, they are great tools.

Get some manual downriggers. Learn how to stack them. It isn't hard and it doesn't take that much. It's not a magical fishing rite of passage. It's just some common sense for what is happening underneath you. Getting an extra rod per downrigger is an easy price to pay for having to reel the downrigger up to reset it. For that reason, I don't use a shuttle hawk either. It takes less than a minute to reset gear with an electric. It takes probably 2-3 minutes with a manual. That's easy math - twice the fishing for a 20-30 minutes of resetting during your day.

I would say get some planer boards if they weren't all so awful to use as they are out of the box. For now, they are probably just a disaster waiting to happen.

Don't buy line counter reels. You don't need them on a downrigger. They won't get you anything.

I like Avet SX reels for downriggers. They are a lever drag salt water reel made for light salt water fishing. They are overkill, by a lot. But, the lever drag makes it so you can easily set two rods at once with one hand. It increases the speed at which you can get reset and they are tough, smooth, beautiful reels with excellent drag and capable of going practically anywhere for anything. I color code mine with matching rods (that I make) so I can yell which one of our 7 rods got hit and someone can get on it. "Blue blue blue" and someone goes to get it.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you put together a system where you think about what you do, what you want, and how it happens, you'll have better results and more fun/satisfaction in the experience. Build a system for how you fish. Think about what will make the experience more fun and do it. Then refine your system and upgrade as needed.

[Jmorfish]

JB -- I'm no pro here, but have been trolling about 6 years now, and love it....I know you will too, especially when you get geared up a little better....I agree with a lot that's been said here by some good trollers, and so I'm just adding my $ .02....If you know you'll be doing alot of trolling, and have the $, get good elec. downriggers....If you want to start a little slower, going a little at a time, then get one or two manuals, good used ones or new...That'd be my first purchase....and get out and practice....then later maybe try a Shuttle Hawk or the extra clip for stacking, or just use your extra rod out the back of the boat like you're doing now...referring to 'trolling depth/weight' charts can get you down pretty deep for some of those kokes also....I would never say 'no' to an in-line, store bought planer board system....yeah, you might lose a fish now and then at the 'de-plane' stage while reeling in, but you're also catching a lot of fish you may not otherwise have, because you're covering more territory, and you're not getting tangled up because you were stacking....Hopefully you've fished with others with downriggers and planers, to see how they are doing it....or at docks/marinas, chat with guys and look at their set-up....then just go for it...Guluk...

[POk3s]

The only thing I feel the need to add is this. You DEFINITELY NEED a line counter reel to be productive. Whether you are going to buy a downrigger or not, it lets you dial everything in much quicker. If you’re going to go the cheaper “in-line weight” route then knowing how much line you have out to compute how deep your stuff is diving is necessary. For instance my best depths this past weekend were 28-37 feet but I caught NOTHING deeper than 37. Figuring out what they want and where they want it is the hardest part. Once you figure it out you might as well know you’re staying there!

After that most people go with the downriggers. I still have manual and it’s not worth the price increase for me to change. Cheap cannon unitrolls work fine. I have a stacker clip and stack both sides 10 feet apart to cover the water column with 4 rods (when fishing with multiple people) and zone in from there. That’s my .02!

[dubob]

You DEFINITELY NEED a line counter reel to be productive.

Are you sure about that? Have you done the math? Or is it just a WAG? Enquiring minds want to know.

[thatchergreg]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said except to get Chamberlain downrigger releases. Unlike the common pinch type  release, Chamberlain's  are independently adjustable for rod pressure and strike pressure.
My personal trolling setup is two Cannon manual downriggers pulling spoons and 9ft trolling rods off the sides pulling crankbaits. With this setup I can cover a swath over 20ft wide  and from top to bottom.

[POk3s]

Haha! I guess DEFINITELY NEED is a strong statement. I just know I could never again go back to the days of hoping that I’m Back to the same presentation as I just was when I caught the last fish. An inexpensive investment in a line counter reel at least takes a lot of the guess work out of it. I don’t know what WAG is so I can’t comment there!

[Downriggerer]

Haha! I guess DEFINITELY NEED is a strong statement. I just know I could never again go back to the days of hoping that I’m Back to the same presentation as I just was when I caught the last fish. An inexpensive investment in a line counter reel at least takes a lot of the guess work out of it. I don’t know what WAG is so I can’t comment there!

It's a Wild @$$ guess, which is what math and physics have come down to, it seems.

Line counters are good if you don't have anything else.  I use them for my planer boards.  But I don't think they help much when you have downriggers.  In fact, I think they detract from the fishing because you are looking at how much line is left out instead of paying attention to the fish and getting it in or, at minimum, it splits your attention between fighting the fish and looking at the reel.  But, your mileage may vary.

[Tin-Can]

Haha! I guess DEFINITELY NEED is a strong statement. I just know I could never again go back to the days of hoping that I’m Back to the same presentation as I just was when I caught the last fish. An inexpensive investment in a line counter reel at least takes a lot of the guess work out of it. I don’t know what WAG is so I can’t comment there!

I don't know much of anything about using DR's or lead line. But I do know what a WAG is.......   someone that probably has a military background maybe......... means a "Wild A$$ Guess" 

[Mildog]

I really like Line Counter reels for Downrigger use, it helps me maintain accurate setbacks and when I have newbies I can tell them what setback for them to let out and they do it correctly so I don't have to babysit them. As far as looking at them when reeling in as mentioned earlier, never been an issue. Just bring the fish in to the net who cares how much line is out once they are on the line. I never look at the counter when bringing a fish in LOL When I am deploying lines I engage the clicker ( if your reel has one) and then release the spool lever it puts just enough pressure on the line so it won't overrun when putting the downrigger down and saves the drags. Sometimes I will leave the clicker on in the event someone is not watching, when a hot fish releases and takes off the clicker screams and will alert you to the hookup. Then take the clicker off, It drives me crazy to hear it when reeling in a fish. But, it can help newbies, when you tell them if when retrieving they don't hear clicking they are just spinning the drag and not bringing in any line or getting the fish closer to the net.
Mildog out

[dubob]

WAG means a "Wild A$$ Guess"  [/color][/b]

BINGO! 

[BROWNBAGGN]

I can get you catching kokanee for less than 125.00. one catch is determining speed of your boat and a fish finder to make sure of water depth.
You only need to fish down to 40 to 50 feet max and that is only in the dead of summer(excluding the Gorge). so the only reason for a finder is to keep from loosing your gear on a snag. I get more out of my GPS than a fish finder, speed, bread crumb trail and marking of schools. GPS's are getting cheaper every year. So, you can pick up a Okuma line counter reel combo for less than 70.00 bucks. Next would be a walker deeper diver 13.00 bucks.
Then assorted koke gear, that one always breaks my bank. Have to have 3 of every color and style. But that will come later. I would stay away from weights and jet divers. You don't want to reel in dead weight or fight a jet diver as you reel in a fish. A jet diver continues to dive the whole way back to the boat. A walker diver has a break away clip built into the diver. so when the fish hits, it trips and planes back to the surface. I have all the best down riggers money can buy and my wife hates them. she prefers long lining it. I have a entire box with divers for her, all sizes and colors. the draw back to long lining it is other boats cutting you off, especially those GD down rigger fisherman. Oh wait that would be me too. boats with riggers can turn in circles around each other. Finally to give you motivation, when I was in between boats I used a 12 foot fish hunter raft, 2 hp motor and a manual homemade rigger (long lining to, cause I could only mount one next to the motor) and caught kokes.