Not sure why this is a good idea

[Lundboy54]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah-wild...-lake.html

They beg people too let large fish go now we are giving them too idaho maybe bear lake fish guy can chime in and let us know the reasoning for this

[Kent]

That picture definitely wasn't taken at Bear Lake.

[wiperhunter2]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah-wild...-lake.html

They beg people too let large fish go now we are giving them too idaho maybe bear lake fish guy can chime in and let us know the reasoning for this

This project was first brought up last year but IMO the bigger issue is how many of these big lake trout will die as a result of the gill nets. They have been gill netting walleye in Willard for a lot of years now, even warm water fish die as a result of the gill nets, trout are a lot more likely to die as a result of being netted, so my question for Scott(BLFG), how many trout will die as a result of being netted?

[wormandbobber]

Just an FYI...the DWR ue gill nets every year to collect milt and eggs from lake trout at Fish Lake to eventually use for future stocking needs. The lake trout can be netted, stripped of eggs, and released with very little mortality if any.

I'm not sure why the same thing can't be done--minus the stripping of eggs--and the results stay the same.

The article also states that no angling or biological impacts will be seen...I don't see any need to worry.

[wiperhunter2]

Just an FYI...the DWR ue gill nets every year to collect milt and eggs from lake trout at Fish Lake to eventually use for future stocking needs. The lake trout can be netted, stripped of eggs, and released with very little mortality if any.

I'm not sure why the same thing can't be done--minus the stripping of eggs--and the results stay the same.

The article also states that no angling or biological impacts will be seen...I don't see any need to worry.

What about the cutts and all the other fish that are caught? I've been out on Bear lake helping them when they are doing the gill netting, seen a lot of dead fish, so I'm not sure about your low mortality statement. There could be a different method that is used when they are trying to keep those bigger fish, like the size of the netting and how long they let the nets sit before bringing them up. I'd be very surprised if they used their regular nets and time of pulling the nets and there would not be a 50% mortality of all fish caught. Maybe lake trout are more hardy than cutts but if they catch 400 large lake trout, Id be surprised if there were fewer than 400 other fish that die as a result. This is the kind of info they do not want people to know about, so unless they are donating all those fish that die to a food bank or families in need, they will go to waste. They did just that last month or maybe earlier this month at Willard and I applaud the DWR for giving those fish to anglers, just not sure that always happens.

[Lundboy54]

Just an FYI...the DWR ue gill nets every year to collect milt and eggs from lake trout at Fish Lake to eventually use for future stocking needs. The lake trout can be netted, stripped of eggs, and released with very little mortality if any.

I'm not sure why the same thing can't be done--minus the stripping of eggs--and the results stay the same.

The article also states that no angling or biological impacts will be seen...I don't see any need to worry.

Taking large fish out of the lake is an angling impact

[cyprinus_23]

Hi All,

Scott's currently busy conducting spring gill netting surveys on Bear Lake right now, so I'm going to sub in for him.  I could write for a long time on this one, but I'm thinking it's best to provide some bullet points our partners in Idaho wrote up to provide some additional info and clarity on the project.  They're well written and illustrate the fine line the two agencies are trying to walk balancing sport fishing with native fish conservation. We realized this project and decision to support Idaho could be unpopular with some anglers; however, we do feel ultimately we're doing the right thing for the right reasons -  This project is not anticipated to have any impact on the Bear Lake fishery or angling experience, it's going to give us the best snapshot we've had on the Bear Lake lake trout population in decades, it will assist with native salmon conservation, and it will keep sport fishing opportunities going for lake trout as they transition to sterile lake trout in Stanley Lake.  Feel free to contact me by email or phone (preferred; 801-656-8694) if you have any additional questions or concerns after reading. 

• The purpose of this project is NOT to suppress the Lake Trout population in Bear Lake.  This is sampling to help the states monitor the population and check-in on progress toward the management goal of having a near sterile population.  This work is no different than other monitoring that is conduct in other fisheries, and it is essential to maintaining fishing opportunities for Lake Trout as well as other species in Bear Lake.

• Sterile lake trout stocking in Bear Lake has been a collaborative effort by IDFG and UDWR. From 2002–2016, sterile lake were reared and stocked from IDFG’s Grace Hatchery; UDWR resumed sterile lake trout rearing and stocking beginning in 2019. Only sterile Lake Trout from these outplants will be translocated to Stanley Lake.

•  Lake Trout will not be deliberately killed during the project.  In fact, the intent is to keep Lake Trout alive and return them to the fishery after collecting biological information.  Only those 400 fish translocated to Stanley Lake are expected to be removed from the fishery.

•  Short duration gillnet sets will be used to minimize Lake Trout and bycatch mortality.  Every effort will be made to not soak gillnets longer than 1–2 hours.  Results from similar netting in other large Idaho lakes has shown high fish survival following net soaks of up to 4 hours.

•  The intent is not to fish 7 miles of gillnets at a time, although we have heard this rumor.  The actual gillnet length is 11,700′ (approximately 2.2 miles).  That is still a very long net, but it is not 7 miles.  Gillnet mesh sizes range from 2" to 5", designed to capture all sizes/age classes of Lake Trout and to minimize vulnerability of smaller bodied fish like Cisco.

•  We are taking precautions to minimize bycatch and bycatch mortality by 1) soaking nets for short durations (1–2 hours) and 2) avoiding known areas occupied by nontarget species.  For example, our biologists intend to avoid areas of known Cutthroat Trout concentrations, such as the west side of the lake near spawning tributary inlets.

o  We expect some limited mortality of bycatch, but it is not expected to have population-level consequences to those species.  In other words, we do not anticipate levels of bycatch mortality that could cause a long-term population decline.  Biologists will monitor bycatch and make project adjustments, if needed, to reduce bycatch conflicts.

o  Idaho Fish and Game has extensive data from bycatch in Lake Pend Oreille where we’ve employed the same short duration gillnetting methods.  By catch concerns in this system include Endangered Species Act (ESA)-listed bull trout, and using these techniques, we have been able to minimize encounters and mortality of bull trout. Bull trout bycatch has been very low (< 5%) for that project and we anticipate similar outcomes at Bear Lake.

•  The 400 translocated fish represent a very small proportion of the estimated Lake Trout population in Bear Lake.  The lake trout population (of only age-4 and older fish) in 1995 was estimated to be around 16,000.  Since that estimate, nearly 250,000 sterile lake trout have been stocked into Bear Lake. Four hundred fish translocated represents less the 1% of the 1995 estimate, and is likely much less than 1% of the current population size. Removal of 400 fish is not anticipated to have population-level consequences, nor compromise the quality of lake trout fishing people currently experience.

•  Sterile Lake Trout are being translocated to Stanley Lake as part of a dual effort to reduce potential impacts to endangered Sockeye Salmon in the upper Salmon River Basin and maintain fishing opportunity for Lake Trout.  Sterile Lake Trout represent a benign risk to long-term Sockeye recovery.  To maintain lake trout angling opportunity, IDFG is already stocking sterile hatchery lake trout to replace to the juvenile portion of the Stanley Lake lake trout population that has been removed. The Bear Lake translocation is designed to replace the adult portion of the Stanley Lake population that has been removed. Bear Lake is a logical donor source for re-stocking Stanley Lake because it’s the only source of large sterile fish that are needed to immediately replace the lost fishing opportunity for adult fish in Stanley Lake (essentially, circumventing many years of growth for hatchery fish to reach quality size).  **One quick comment from Chris Penne - the 400 fish moved won't be only the big ones - it will also be small and medium sized fish.  The fish transferred will be representative of what is caught in the short-term nets.

•  Our ultimate goal is to provide great opportunities for fishing, and we would not undertake a monitoring or collection project that could compromise that goal.  Providing opportunities to fish hinges on the understanding of populations, and that is only accomplished through the collection of biological information.  Idaho Fish and Game and Utah Division of Wildlife Resources fishery managers are avid anglers and intimately understand the passion that folks have for the fisheries they enjoy.  Maintaining opportunity to pursue that passion is our priority.

•  Both Idaho Fish and Game and Utah Division of Wildlife Resources have had meetings to discuss these concepts and the public optics of the project.  Internally, the agencies recognized the sensitivities that could surround a research project using large-grade sampling equipment.  However, discussion about the minimal expected impact of the work and the benefits of collecting robust fishery information from Bear Lake alleviated the concern of any substantive project impacts.  That decision was further supported and informed by data from other large lakes where gillnetting has been extensively employed to study Lake Trout populations.  Ultimately, the agencies do not expect for this work to have any sort of long-range impacts on the quality of the Bear Lake fishery.

[wiperhunter2]

Thanks Chris for posting that info. Having larger sized gill nets will certainly help and only soaking them for an hour or two will make a huge difference.

[Lundboy54]

Hi All,

Scott's currently busy conducting spring gill netting surveys on Bear Lake right now, so I'm going to sub in for him.  I could write for a long time on this one, but I'm thinking it's best to provide some bullet points our partners in Idaho wrote up to provide some additional info and clarity on the project.  They're well written and illustrate the fine line the two agencies are trying to walk balancing sport fishing with native fish conservation. We realized this project and decision to support Idaho could be unpopular with some anglers; however, we do feel ultimately we're doing the right thing for the right reasons -  This project is not anticipated to have any impact on the Bear Lake fishery or angling experience, it's going to give us the best snapshot we've had on the Bear Lake lake trout population in decades, it will assist with native salmon conservation, and it will keep sport fishing opportunities going for lake trout as they transition to sterile lake trout in Stanley Lake.  Feel free to contact me by email or phone (preferred; 801-656-8694) if you have any additional questions or concerns after reading. 

• The purpose of this project is NOT to suppress the Lake Trout population in Bear Lake.  This is sampling to help the states monitor the population and check-in on progress toward the management goal of having a near sterile population.  This work is no different than other monitoring that is conduct in other fisheries, and it is essential to maintaining fishing opportunities for Lake Trout as well as other species in Bear Lake.

• Sterile lake trout stocking in Bear Lake has been a collaborative effort by IDFG and UDWR. From 2002–2016, sterile lake were reared and stocked from IDFG’s Grace Hatchery; UDWR resumed sterile lake trout rearing and stocking beginning in 2019. Only sterile Lake Trout from these outplants will be translocated to Stanley Lake.

•  Lake Trout will not be deliberately killed during the project.  In fact, the intent is to keep Lake Trout alive and return them to the fishery after collecting biological information.  Only those 400 fish translocated to Stanley Lake are expected to be removed from the fishery.

•  Short duration gillnet sets will be used to minimize Lake Trout and bycatch mortality.  Every effort will be made to not soak gillnets longer than 1–2 hours.  Results from similar netting in other large Idaho lakes has shown high fish survival following net soaks of up to 4 hours.

•  The intent is not to fish 7 miles of gillnets at a time, although we have heard this rumor.  The actual gillnet length is 11,700′ (approximately 2.2 miles).  That is still a very long net, but it is not 7 miles.  Gillnet mesh sizes range from 2" to 5", designed to capture all sizes/age classes of Lake Trout and to minimize vulnerability of smaller bodied fish like Cisco.

•  We are taking precautions to minimize bycatch and bycatch mortality by 1) soaking nets for short durations (1–2 hours) and 2) avoiding known areas occupied by nontarget species.  For example, our biologists intend to avoid areas of known Cutthroat Trout concentrations, such as the west side of the lake near spawning tributary inlets.

o  We expect some limited mortality of bycatch, but it is not expected to have population-level consequences to those species.  In other words, we do not anticipate levels of bycatch mortality that could cause a long-term population decline.  Biologists will monitor bycatch and make project adjustments, if needed, to reduce bycatch conflicts.

o  Idaho Fish and Game has extensive data from bycatch in Lake Pend Oreille where we’ve employed the same short duration gillnetting methods.  By catch concerns in this system include Endangered Species Act (ESA)-listed bull trout, and using these techniques, we have been able to minimize encounters and mortality of bull trout. Bull trout bycatch has been very low (< 5%) for that project and we anticipate similar outcomes at Bear Lake.

•  The 400 translocated fish represent a very small proportion of the estimated Lake Trout population in Bear Lake.  The lake trout population (of only age-4 and older fish) in 1995 was estimated to be around 16,000.  Since that estimate, nearly 250,000 sterile lake trout have been stocked into Bear Lake. Four hundred fish translocated represents less the 1% of the 1995 estimate, and is likely much less than 1% of the current population size. Removal of 400 fish is not anticipated to have population-level consequences, nor compromise the quality of lake trout fishing people currently experience.

•  Sterile Lake Trout are being translocated to Stanley Lake as part of a dual effort to reduce potential impacts to endangered Sockeye Salmon in the upper Salmon River Basin and maintain fishing opportunity for Lake Trout.  Sterile Lake Trout represent a benign risk to long-term Sockeye recovery.  To maintain lake trout angling opportunity, IDFG is already stocking sterile hatchery lake trout to replace to the juvenile portion of the Stanley Lake lake trout population that has been removed. The Bear Lake translocation is designed to replace the adult portion of the Stanley Lake population that has been removed. Bear Lake is a logical donor source for re-stocking Stanley Lake because it’s the only source of large sterile fish that are needed to immediately replace the lost fishing opportunity for adult fish in Stanley Lake (essentially, circumventing many years of growth for hatchery fish to reach quality size).  **One quick comment from Chris Penne - the 400 fish moved won't be only the big ones - it will also be small and medium sized fish.  The fish transferred will be representative of what is caught in the short-term nets.

•  Our ultimate goal is to provide great opportunities for fishing, and we would not undertake a monitoring or collection project that could compromise that goal.  Providing opportunities to fish hinges on the understanding of populations, and that is only accomplished through the collection of biological information.  Idaho Fish and Game and Utah Division of Wildlife Resources fishery managers are avid anglers and intimately understand the passion that folks have for the fisheries they enjoy.  Maintaining opportunity to pursue that passion is our priority.

•  Both Idaho Fish and Game and Utah Division of Wildlife Resources have had meetings to discuss these concepts and the public optics of the project.  Internally, the agencies recognized the sensitivities that could surround a research project using large-grade sampling equipment.  However, discussion about the minimal expected impact of the work and the benefits of collecting robust fishery information from Bear Lake alleviated the concern of any substantive project impacts.  That decision was further supported and informed by data from other large lakes where gillnetting has been extensively employed to study Lake Trout populations.  Ultimately, the agencies do not expect for this work to have any sort of long-range impacts on the quality of the Bear Lake fishery.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Still dont understand why we are giving fish to a state that has not stocked fish in bear lake since 2016. And when you say no long term impact on fishing. That speaks volumes what is the short term impact you are taking 400 adult fish. If idaho wants them let them net their side of the lake. I understand that you cant please everyone but this is B&$#S!*$.

[MACMAN]

I’ve read everything I can find on this and cannot figure out how Bear Lake benefits at all from this. If we get nothing in return, this is piss poor management. Something is not right and we aren’t getting all the info. This has back room deal written all over it. Why don’t we just give Idaho all our big horn sheep and moose while we are at it. I’m a huge fan of our resource management, but this has to be the worst management strategy I’ve ever seen. Someone should get this story on the news.  This infuriates me. I have a life long respect for these BL macs. I’ve spent an hour with my hands in 36 degree water reviving a struggling fish and this is how the people that are supposed to advocate and protect them decision make. BS.

[Cowboypirate]

I am commenting as the moderator not as CBP.

I appreciate the detailed response from the DWR about why this will occur and how they plan to do it to minimize impact to the fishery. It was detailed and helpful.

I also fully respect, and encourage, members to express passionate disagreement or agreement with the practice. We have a right to be heard.

Just remember our site rules on language and such about disagreement. The line was NOT crossed - thank you - but knowing the passion on this subject I am worried that it might and I don't want to close the thread and limit others comments.

Hope you'all understand - cheers and tight lines

[cyprinus_23]

Thanks for the feedback.  It seems there's still a few lingering questions.   I know it's hard to change minds on these types of things, especially when passion runs strong.  I'll offer a few other perspectives from different angles.  

There should be no short-term impacts to the Bear Lake fishery either.  As stated in the bullets, it's expected the transfer portion of the project will amount to about 1% of the lake trout population.  When we conduct gill net surveys, the smallest change we can reasonably detect in a population is + or - 10%, so its very unlikely we will be able to detect any change in the Bear Lake lake trout population.  It's just as unlikely anglers will notice any difference in the population as well.  

The benefit to the Bear Lake fishery from the this project is we get a good look at the status of the lake trout population in the lake.  Because lake trout are a large predator, they can really impact a system if their population gets out of balance.  Everything appears to fine with Bear Lake right now based on Scott's netting surveys, but it's good to do a more in-depth check every couple decades and make sure things are what we think they are.  This is just part of the necessary monitoring when the goal is to comanage a fishery for both lake trout and native fish found no where else in the world.  Doesn't seem like a big benefit I know, but is it necessary that every project have large direct benefits to the fishery?  Sometimes it can be good to help others when it's not anticipated to have any negative impacts to our fishery.  

Regarding Utah stocking lake trout the last 3 years - this was our choice.  We have more stringent state fish health codes and preferred to use a stock of our own fish.  Idaho cooperatively manages the lake with UT and helps out in many ways, including fish surveys, stream restoration, etc.  They were happy to continue stocking the lake with sterile lake trout if we were supportive of it.  One side benefit for us is that developing our own lake trout brood has allowed us to branch out and begin introductions of sterile lake trout in other fisheries such as Causey and Stateline Reservoirs.  It might seem like a small thing, but both reservoirs are capable of producing large fish in unique settings in time.

[castnshoot]

DWR use gill nets a lot, in a lot of different places, I think 10 to 12 hour soak is typical. Usually more than half the fish die.

If you happen to be around while they are doing it, and have a fishing license they will give you a limit if you ask for them. I have a few big bows right now that in am going to smoke that I got that way.

I think they do a great job with the fishery’s,,but don’t ask me about the deer herd.

[Lundboy54]

Thanks for the feedback.  It seems there's still a few lingering questions.   I know it's hard to change minds on these types of things, especially when passion runs strong.  I'll offer a few other perspectives from different angles.  

There should be no short-term impacts to the Bear Lake fishery either.  As stated in the bullets, it's expected the transfer portion of the project will amount to about 1% of the lake trout population.  When we conduct gill net surveys, the smallest change we can reasonably detect in a population is + or - 10%, so its very unlikely we will be able to detect any change in the Bear Lake lake trout population.  It's just as unlikely anglers will notice any difference in the population as well.  

The benefit to the Bear Lake fishery from the this project is we get a good look at the status of the lake trout population in the lake.  Because lake trout are a large predator, they can really impact a system if their population gets out of balance.  Everything appears to fine with Bear Lake right now based on Scott's netting surveys, but it's good to do a more in-depth check every couple decades and make sure things are what we think they are.  This is just part of the necessary monitoring when the goal is to comanage a fishery for both lake trout and native fish found no where else in the world.  Doesn't seem like a big benefit I know, but is it necessary that every project have large direct benefits to the fishery?  Sometimes it can be good to help others when it's not anticipated to have any negative impacts to our fishery.  

Regarding Utah stocking lake trout the last 3 years - this was our choice.  We have more stringent state fish health codes and preferred to use a stock of our own fish.  Idaho cooperatively manages the lake with UT and helps out in many ways, including fish surveys, stream restoration, etc.  They were happy to continue stocking the lake with sterile lake trout if we were supportive of it.  One side benefit for us is that developing our own lake trout brood has allowed us to branch out and begin introductions of sterile lake trout in other fisheries such as Causey and Stateline Reservoirs.  It might seem like a small thing, but both reservoirs are capable of producing large fish in unique settings in time.

Everything appears to fine with Bear Lake right now based on Scott's netting surveys
My dad always said if its not broke don't fix it. I understand i won't change your mind and you haven't changed mine yet in my opinion this is a dumb idea if for no other reason than the cost of it. You can say it wont impact the fishery again i disagree. I plan to follow up with everyone i can get too listen to see if this can be stopped i urge all who feel the same too do the same. I would like to thank u for replying to these post.

[Jonesy84404]

Curious as to how you tell a sterile lake trout from a non sterile lake trout???

[obifishkenobi]

Curious as to how you tell a sterile lake trout from a non sterile lake trout???

My guess would be a pit tag or a fin clip.

[cyprinus_23]

Curious as to how you tell a sterile lake trout from a non sterile lake trout???

Thanks LundBoy54.  I respect your opinion and appreciate the feedback as well.  Fisheries management is definitely a juggling act, and while we try our best to make as many people as possible, there will obviously be disagreements.  I appreciate the discussion for sure.  

As for the determining triploidy.  Idaho will be holding the lake trout very large net pens and do blood tests on individual fish.  They've brought fish slowly up from deep before like this and held them in these large nets pens for short periods before with success.  This time should be no different.

[Fritzfishin]

As former president Trump would say.... money money money...... money!!!! Your fired.
Someday I hope utah dwr will care more about our wildlife then the bank account but until then there's nothing we can do.

[Majja]

Well I am not a Bear Lake angler nor do I play one on TV, But this actually sounds like some good science to me. And with as large as that lake is 400 fish does not seam like a lot to me. I think it is always good when there is a shared interest and both parties work to gather to co-manage . I think this is a good thing and look forward to see what the results are.

[Gone Forever]

Fine with me. Neighboring DWR's cooperating with each other is a good thing if you ask me. Never know when you are going to need some kokanees from a different gene pool, or some other favor. They own 1/2 of Bear lake, Who's to say they won't take that 400 from the Idaho side?
Bear Lake is managed for the sacred Native Cutthroat Trout. The lakers are put and take , for us, the anglers, all anglers properly licensed. That's why sterile. With only sterile and only stocking to sustain population, size, density and angler success can all be managed.
This movement isn't just in Bear lake either. Biologists love hybrids because they are sterile. They are in control and with their own army of vicious eating machine Muskellunge to keep everything in line...we get the fishing we are getting in this desert and drought. Completely controlled and fantastic given the environment.
Just my opinion.