How BIG will they get?

[senkonate]

A four pound smallmouth bass at Jordanelle Reservoir is not uncommon. In fact, just on this board, I have heard of a few 5+ pounders being taken.

How big will those smallmouth actually get in there? I know that Jordanelle is a relatively young lake, so are the oldest bass only as old as the reservoir itself? I read that a 6 year old lake (not river) smallie will be around 18".

Do any of you smallmouth experts have any idea if the bass we are catching up there will get even bigger? Or is 4-5 pounds, and about 23"-24" the biggest most of them will get?

Senkonate
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[senkonate]

I was looking for info on what makes a good smallmouth fishery great. I think Jordanelle is already great, but I wonder if it could be even better. I found this article about the SMB at Lake Powell. Here is an exerpt from it that I found interesting:

On January 1, 2002 a new regulation was enacted on Lake Powell that allowed anglers to keep 20 smallmouth bass. The number was not important. It could have been 10 or 30. The philosophical statement was the clincher. I wanted anglers to know that it was okay to keep a bass. Catch and release was not working at Lake Powell. Catch and keep would help improve the fishery. Anglers responded to the new keeper philosophy by doubling the bass harvest. In 2002 and 2003 about 25% of bass caught were kept.

Fast forward to 2004. After only two years of "keeping bass" the fishery has responded in dramatic fashion. Shad forage is more abundant. Smallmouth bass are bigger and fatter. Bass tournaments held in 2002 saw winning average weights of less than 5 pounds for five 12-inch smallmouth bass. The first two tournaments held in 2004 had winning weights of over 9 pounds for five fish with a "big fish" over 3 pounds. The ratio of bass over 13 inches in the population (RSD) has improved from zero in 2000 to 20% in 2003. The outlook for 2004 is for continued bass growth and better quality fishing.

How does this work? Smallmouth targeted by our catch and keep program, those 9-11 inch bass, are the most aggressive predators. Young bass are naïve, fearless and always hungry. By keeping the smaller, most aggressive bass, more food was made available for the older, wiser fish that were more selective in feeding habits. Keeping the larger bass would have had the opposite effect of leaving the most efficient predators and not freeing up enough additional forage. Anglers were given information about the goal of the bass harvest program and the target size fish to harvest. They responded with enthusiasm. This was a victory for angler education in action.

Here is the link to the entire article: http://www.wayneswords.com/gillnet.htm

Do you guys think that we need to keep more of our bass under 12", the legal ones to keep? I haven't ever kept one, and I think I'll probably start. I've noticed quite a few other guys keeping the small ones.

Is harvesting your limit of smallmouth bass something we should actively encourage every angler to do?

Senkonate
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[doggonefishin]

I have wondered the very same thing this summer. Here is my take, but I also would like to hear others opinion on this. At Jordanelle, as long as the perch and chubs continue in multiplying and replentishing the lake, there will be more than enough forage there to feed a lot of bass (and perch eater like me) and keeping the dink smallies is not "necessary". Besides, I think a fair number do get taken out by the less serious, recreational anglers anyway. Lake Powell and Flaming Gorge differ from Jordanelle in that these waters are extremely forage challenged. The smallies can dig around in the rocks for enough food to survive, but they don't have enough to eat to get big very fast. I feel that Deer Creek might be in this category too. All I caught there this summer were relatively small. I know there are some big ones there, but the perch population is at a low level and taking out some smallies might help. I would also like to know what others think, as I do not consider myself a "bass guy". Just my inflation adjusted 2 cents.
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[PREDATOR]

Ok, I'll bite.
Heres my take.
First you have to look at what makes jordanelle what it is today.
Today you have a relativley new reservior. In the overall sceme of things, jordanelle is a very new place. Lakes go through stages, there are three main stages that a lake will go through. Jordanelle is in the first stage still.
In this lake there is an abundance of features that produce great fishing. Lots of nutrients in the lake due to all the features that were flooded. Tons and tons of cover for forage to thrive in. Great water quality, and an overall picture perfect situation for growing big fish.
Does that sound like lake Oahe to anyone? You bet it does. Sounds like a lot of other lakes as well.
What happens is that as time goes on, the nutreint supply that was so plentiful becomes a depleted, the cover rots out and slowly dissapears, the forage either gets devoured or crashes, and the entire face of the lake changes.
Now, that takes a while to happen. But jordanelle took a while to get to where it is today. While most guys are just discovering smallmouth fishing at jordanelle, you have to realize the smallmouth fishing there has been good for seven years that I personally know of. At least thats the first time I fished it for smallmouth.
So, the question is, where can it go from here? Probably up for a few more years.
The main thing in preserving jordanelle will depend on factors beyond any angler or the DWR's control. The lake will change. It just will. Every lake does.
To maintain a great fishery, you have to have a balance. Not just balance between the perch and the smallies, but an entire balanced ecosystem.
One thing we know from other lakes that have been in this same situation is that balancing the lake as it changes is real tough. You generally have HUGE populations of fish to balance at that point. Just imagine thrying to feed all those smallmouth if the perch crashed. Bass would feed on bass, and stunt, and the entire place would change. The DWR would then have to change regs to try to get lots of the bass out of there kind of like at the gorge, but it usually doesnt work real well.
At that point, I personally havent heard of a success story where a lake was brought back to a real quality fishery from that type of situation.
Its a managment nightmare.
Now, is that going to happen to jordanelle? Who knows.
Could it easily happen? Oh yeah. Just look at 99% of the bass fisheries around. Starvation, Pineview, Mantua, Hyrum, Flaming gorge, you get the idea.
I think that in order to keep jordanelle on the up and up, the DWR will have to do EXTENSIVE studies on it. They will have to manage bolth the forage and the predators very closely. They will have to be proactive about it, and not wait until it is too late and the problem exists. They will have to have huge public support in harvesting bass and perch as well as protecting the cover and structure from litter and destruction.
Even then they will need a miracle to pull off what no one else has been able to do.
It is my OPINION that 7 years from today, jordanelle will be on a downward cycle and fishing there will be about equal to what it was seven years ago. 10 - 12 years we may have another starvation.
The state just doesnt have the manpower or money and rescources to do that extensive managment on one single lake. Ok, the state does, but they wont give it to the DWR.
Enjoy it while it is, becasue you are going to be telling your kids the old story, "I remember when......" and, "I used to be able to go up there and...." just like the stories of the good old days your dad and grandpa tell you.
Things change, its just part of the game. Jordanelle will change, and those changes will likley be in loss of cover, food, and the things that are currently producing such awesome results.
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[doggonefishin]

Excellent reply, one factor that I think could bring an earlier end to the superlative smallie growth rates there faster than otherwise might be the establishment of the walleyes. If a sizable population of eyes starts working on the forage, the decline will be faster than would be otherwise seen and the "window of time" to catch a really spectacular smallie reduced. Whether this occurs before the cover rots away and other factors come into play will be interesting to see.
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[Troll]

I think what you say is true, Jordenelle will age and the biomass it can sustain will diminish as the flooded vegatation decays and provides less cover.
I think this will take longer than 7 years. There is still alot of structure in Jordenelle and a lot of spawning are3as. There will always be the shoreline area that is flooded in the spring and dry in the fall to provide cover and all of the rocky areas in the rock cliff arm. I think Jordenelle will become the place to catch and release 5lb smallies for the next 20 years. The catch and release rules and harvest of younge fish will result in an abnormal ratio of year class fish weighted twords the bigger fish. Think of it, a place where you know there are many 2lb and better fish close by with launching/camping and concessions. Were pretty lucky.

Powell is going through a big change now due to the drought. No one knows what he future will hold, If the drought ends there would be a 3 or 4 year filling period in which there would be flooded vegetation to depths of 75' and more. This should cause the panfish population to explode and they will compete with the stripers and smallies for food.
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[senkonate]

Wow. Thanks for the great insights, Doggone, Predator, & Troll. I learned a lot!

One thing we know from other lakes that have been in this same situation is that balancing the lake as it changes is real tough. You generally have HUGE populations of fish to balance at that point. Just imagine thrying to feed all those smallmouth if the perch crashed. Bass would feed on bass, and stunt, and the entire place would change. The DWR would then have to change regs to try to get lots of the bass out of there kind of like at the gorge, but it usually doesnt work real well.

At that point, I personally havent heard of a success story where a lake was brought back to a real quality fishery from that type of situation.

Its a managment nightmare.

Now, is that going to happen to jordanelle? Who knows.
Could it easily happen? Oh yeah. Just look at 99% of the bass fisheries around. Starvation, Pineview, Mantua, Hyrum, Flaming gorge, you get the idea.....It is my OPINION that 7 years from today, jordanelle will be on a downward cycle and fishing there will be about equal to what it was seven years ago. 10 - 12 years we may have another starvation.

Was Starvation, and those other lakes once like Jordanelle? Has anyone seen anything published by the DWR about the things we've been discussing in this thread, especially Jordanelle?

Thanks,

Senkonate
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