Pondering Life

[pleasantmisery]

Hit the ice this last weekend and all I can say is we had plenty of time to contemplate life and come up with hypothetical questions in between bites, or during the lack thereof.

Now I don't want to start anything here but I am one who tries to hear all sides and see things from as many angles as possible so I thought I'd post a couple of our ponderings.

1. Is there a reason the DWR imposes a limit on a fish they want to get rid of? ex: Ling (spelling?) on the George, and other illegally introduced species into waters.

2. With the slot limit at the Berry, I know a few old timers (my grandfather being the main one) who wont fish it anymore because heaven forbid they go fishing and not bring something home to eat. I guess that comes from growing up during the depression. Before the hard deck, I seen quite a few dead slot sized fish where they had been hooked fatally and returned and power bait being the most poplular on a small hook the fish would swallow to their butts, resulting in a reverse colonoscapy.
What would happen if they made the Berry artificial lure only, with or without the slot limit?

Just a couple thoughts we had and I wanted to hear others' thoughts too.
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[Coldfooter]

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1. Is there a reason the DWR imposes a limit on a fish they want to get rid of? ex: Ling (spelling?) on the George, and other illegally introduced species into waters.

2. What would happen if they made the Berry artificial lure only, with or without the slot limit?

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I have to say I think its ridiculous to maintain a "limit" on any species that was illeally introduce and yet the DRW claims they'd like that species removed. I feel the DWR needs crap or get off the pot and then make up their minds. Either they want to keep the illegally introduced species in those waters they now exist or they dont.. This wishy washy BS is getting old in my opinion.. I feel its merely one more way to try and confuse the angler..

As far as your second question.
Strawberry is (as far as I'm aware) a family fishery. How many 6 year olds fling dust bunnies? Whats more, how many parents want to reload a new lure after every cast then turn and hand the pole to a child? That could get slightly expensive.
Farther more I feel the DRW should make certain allowances for children where the slot limit is concerned. I feel a child should be able to take their trophy home if he or she so chooses. Yet I also realize that to many outstanding parents would try and take advantage of it....
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Putting limits on unwanted fish is a "head scratcher". Maybe it is just a control issue (like marriage). About the time they put limits on carp and chubs we will know they have gone over the edge.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I posted up some info a short while back on the issues discussed about Strawberry by representatives of the DWR program on that lake. The majority consensus is that you cannot keep everybody happy. The unhappiest are the ones who always treated Strawberry as the place to fill up their freezer, no matter what it did to the fishery.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In the days of no slot and unlimited harvest, the average fish size (rainbows and cutts) was under 16 inches. There were hardly any fish that survived to the three year old class. Today, the average fish is over 18", with many fish in the 3, 4, and 5 year old classes. And, the catch per angler hour rate has multiplied.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The larger fish have visibly reduced the chub population, without having to poison the lake again, as in the past. It will sustain itself much better now, with more natural spawning among the larger fish. In short, after only a couple of years of the slot limit, the lake is a world class fishery. Most anglers can count on catching a lot of fish and a lot of larger fish, with the very real chance of taking both rainbows and cutts over 10 pounds.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The program is working. The few fish that die from hooking mortality are considered a part of the equation. No matter what the numbers, they are far fewer than open harvest figures before the slots. And, DWR monitors the fish population and stocks what is needed to replace those removed. They are keeping the lake in balance. There is no shortage of fish.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]None of us likes to see fish killed, especially those that are released...voluntarily or because of the slot. There are a percentage that die even with artificials only. Until it is deemed that the hooking mortality figures are creating a major problem, it is not likely to result in artificials only.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Noble sentiments, but not likely to create a change in the DWR maintenance program. Give them a chance. Everything now is infinitely better than only a couple of years ago. If it crashes, then we will all be knocking on DWR's doors and asking hard questions. Until then, enjoy what we got.[/#0000ff]
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[UintaIce]

Them's some fine ponderings, I do say.
My 2 pesos would be:
1 - As far as Ling Cod (burbot) on the Gorge, 25 is pretty liberal by any standards. I don't know if there's a law, written or otherwise, that governs putting a number on the limit numbers. It may be in accordance with something the Wyoming officials have done, and the necessity to match their bag. Either way, I agree: pretty dumb on the surface, isn't it?
2 - I asked Tom Pettingill way-back when the new regulations were first put into place about the artificial only concept. I know that even when trolling, it's not hard for a trout to swallow a worm swimming behind pop geer. But he even mentioned the idea of not wanting to isolate those old timers who had different fishing methods; they wanted to educate them regarding release by cutting lines and such. The hope being that in the long run, practices would change. Likewise, my wife's dad won't fish there any more either, because they want to kill 'em and clean 'em. That's it.
Also, he said that if "artificial only" became the rule, that would include the exclusion of bait tht ice fishers use for tipping tube jigs and such, and the use of liquid/gel attractants.
As far as the slot goes, I love it! I hope they keep it on from this day forward. Just read the posts on BFT; people are catching fish beyond the slot, and still releasing them. We're on our way to a real trophy fishery!
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[PBH]

Flaming Gorge Burbot:

1. A limit is in place because, whether we want the fish or not, they are a game fish. No limit = trash fish (Chubs, carp, etc.)

2. The UDWR wanted to stay consistent with the regulations Wyoming already had in place.

Justifications:

1. Catching the Burbot is going to be extremely rare. The chances of limiting out on Burbot is going to be near impossible. If the populations start to increase, and fishermen are actually able to catch a limit, then I would suspect the regulations would be changed.

2. If we put the Burbot in the same category as other "trash" fish, and have 0 limit on them, shouldn't we do the same for Walleye, and Perch in reservoirs that they have been illegally introduced into?

3. No limit implies that the fish is a trash fish, and thus worthless. Putting a limit on the fish actually increases angler awareness, and desireability. With a limit in place, fishermen will actually try to catch some. Just look at all the discussion that has gone on about the limit on the Burbot. Without a limit, who would be talking about them?

4. The Gorge is shared by Wyoming. Why not try to keep the regulations simple? Would any of you prefer that Utah have different regulations for the Gorge than Wyoming? Keep the whole body of water the same -- don't try to split the regulations down the state line.

Enough rambling. The regulations may be worded with some contradiction. But, in reality, that contradiction is NOT going to come up.
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[pleasantmisery]

Big thanks to all.

I guess the limit on unwanted fish is a question that will always be asked by someone, it was just my turn this time.

For Strawberry, I loved fishing it before the restrictions and I still love fishing it now. Especially with the bigger fish. Makes for some fun times.
I feel that the restrictions are doing what they are supposed to do and support them completely. I totally agree with and love what the DWR has acheived so far and the potential Stawberry has for the future.

Like I said before, these were just hypothetical questions and no complaints, harm, or insult intended towards anbody or anything.
I guess there will always be "what-ifs".

I don't make the rules and I love fishing. So I figure I can obey the rules and enjoy my time out on the water; and if I can't, then I have no business being out and should stay home.
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[Bigcat]

Great questions.....

Question #1 One of those things that make you go huh?

Question #2 I love fishing Strawberry! It is an amazing place with incredible number and size of fish. I used to fish it in the early 90's (1992-1996) while going to school here in Utah. I was the king of the plunk fisherman (thats the sound that power bait and sinker makes when it hits the water......Plunk). We took home limits of football shaped rainbows almost every trip to the lake. Sometimes we would catch one short of our limit and continue to catch a release fish for several hours. Fortunately we at least knew to snip the line and not try to retrieve the treble hook before turning the fish loose. Looking back i'm sure th mortality rate was quite high though. Being a poor college student at the time I ate everything we brought home. We didn't have a big enough freezer to fit anything more than a few ice cube and a 1/2 gallon of cheep ice cream. So trust me when I say I didn't have a freezer full and none went to waste. It was kinda a no brainer......Geee should I have freesh trout tonight or mac and cheese or top roman noodles. I know some of you don't like trout but I do. I rate them right up there with june suckers[]. Anyway I digress. I moved away from Utah for several years and returned 2 1/2 yrs ago and was anxious to return to my old fishing stomping grounds. I was quickly educated by my brother as to the new rules and regs and did a lot of reading as to the reasoning for the slot and current regs. I have seen how it is to kill off an entire lake (Island Park Res, ID and then Strawberry) because of chub over population. I understand why the regs are how they are. Knowing this I have voluntarily given up using PB or even worm and marshmallow in this lake because of the high mortality rate. I may still use it in other put and take type lakes to get a little dinner. Instead I have learned to be better at flyfishing and have really injoyed learning how to use jigs of all kinds and especially love to verticle jig. I will never go back to using just straight bait at Strawberry and I cringe when I see others still doing it. I don't have any problem with using a little bait to sweeten jigs with and usually use scents as well. I am opposed to banning those things because I think with the right presentation the hooking mortality rate will be no different then with artificial only. But with any bait if just thrown out there to sit and the fish given a long time to munch on it, there will be mortality.

In summary (cause all that I typed above was rather disorganized and random) I think the slot is great and working like a champ. However I would like to see the limit changed in about 2 years (more time to study the cutt/chub relationship) to allow just 1 fish to be kept under 18 inches and all other cutts released. This would allow you to take a single fish home almost every trip to eat if you wanted one. I don't think this would hurt the number of 3-4 yr old fish that currently seem to be so plentiful. Currently if I catch one under 15 inches it is an eater but I would release any over 22.

Just my .02
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