Seeking Advice From Fellow Tubers on Freshwater lures

[smallmouth89]

[size 1]I have spent the last 10 years or so flyfishing for trout and bass. I am interested in getting back into spinning and baitcasting and find the modern selection of crankbaits, jerkbaits and plastics pretty overwhelming.

I know from past experience that Rapala makes a great product but I see great looking lures offered by Cabela's and Bass Pro for significantly less coin. I also know that generally you get what you pay for but are these less expensive baits a viable alternative.

From the other side of that coin there is the very expensive line of baits that cost about 15 dollars from Lucky Craft (and others). Why would a regular bait demand the premium price of a big muskie bait. (I suppose muskie baits are about $30 now!)

Could some of you fellows bring me up to speed on the current state of affairs in the warmwater world of spinning and baitcasting? [/size]
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[smallmouth89]

Where's all the helpful spinners and baitcasters who kick around in tubes? I need some serious advice here. This gear fishing can be expensive. Like Tube Dude I have generally fished with my own homegrown flies, spinners and jigs. Crankbaits and the like have not got any cheaper since I last used them and I'd like to build my gear arsenal around proven baits. I don't mind plunking down the dollars for Rapala lures but when it comes to other brands I'm at a loss.

From way back when I fished without the flyrod I still have many of my original lures from Arbogast and Heddon. These two companys dominated the quality lure market before plastics and $30 baits were even thought of. What are some of the modern equivalents to some of the old tried and true stuff from the 60's 70's and 80's? (Without spending $15 to $30 dollars for a good plug)

I actually used to make my own musky plugs (Believers and Jitterbugs, Minnow Baits etc. on a small lathe or hand carved) rather than lay out the heavy duty cash demanded for big plugs.

I think there's something about tying flies and jigs that makes you pretty frugal or brings out your Scotch ancestry.
God Bless,
Don
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[macfly55]

..all I can tell you is what I have been told and seen works.. bendopolo talks of his super stretchy that is his killer plastic.. and I am here to tell you that it works.. he used that to catch a 10.5 trout in a lake near us (my first trip to that lake).. he swear by it.. I am sure he will give you the details on how he rigs it etc..

.. I am sure others will chime in as they read your post.. lots of good people with lots of good advice on this board..

MacFly [cool]
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[smallmouth89]

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.. I am sure others will chime in as they read your post.. lots of good people with lots of good advice on this board..

MacFly [cool] [/reply]
I know there's lots of good advice here as I've been a regular for a few years now. I was just surprised not to hear more as until today when I "bumped' the post there had been zero response.
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[macfly55]

..I am kind of surprised too.. maybe they are all over trying to figure out why I asked a question about a TU tube.. [sly]... seriously.. not sure but Id guess most were busy with whatever keeps em busy during the month of January.. I know tn2 has been in and out of town a lot lately.. could account for his absence so far..

.. as for me.. my experience is limited but did want to pass on what I knew and I know works..

MacFly [cool]
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[smallmouth89]

Thanks MacFly!
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[macfly55]

....welcome...

MacFly [cool]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]By now, you know that I seldom spend more than a few cents on any lure I use. I make just about every thing I use. And, I always catch lots of fish. I see no need to blow big bucks on the purty stuff in the fancy catalogs and online stores.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One philosophy I have developed over the years is that a good fisherman can catch fish on the "WRONG" lures...while a poor fisherman often can catch nothing on the "RIGHT" lures. There is so much more to fishing than just lure selection. But, since we of the angler persuasion are eternally optimistic, we are always looking for the MAGIC LURE that will catch fish on every trip.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That is not to say that the higher quality (pricier) lures might not catch MORE fish for an angler skilled enough to appreciate the differences and to work them to the full extent of their improved performance level. I have both fished and witnessed other anglers fishing some of the Lucky Craft lures (at $15 a pop). There is no denying the special floating, diving and action properties engineered into these lures. But, to an "average" angler, who just "chuck and chance it" fishes, the refinements are largely a waste of money.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As an example, I have used "plain vanilla" diving crankbaits as surface lures...allowing them to float on top and then twitching them once in awhile. If they are the right size, shape and color to elicit a strike, fish will hit them...even if they are not retrieved at mid depth as they are designed to be fished.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are almost an unlimited number of variables to consider when choosing a lure to tie on...species, mode (active, neutral or negative), water temp and clarity, primary forage, time of year (spawning, summer doldrums, etc.) and the various characteristics of the lure (size, color, pattern, action, etc.). Most of us spend a lifetime adding to our mental database of information that will help us make more and more right decisions. Some of us just keep making the same mistakes over and over again without ever taking the time and investing the study to determine what we could be doing better.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One of the little mental games I play, whenever my sonar tells me there are fish in the water, but I am not connecting, is to run through my list of "triggers". In the attached PDF file, I list some of the things on lures that can help increase strikes. I have left out some of the obvious things, like scent, size and other BIG factors. But, it does address your question...directly or indirectly.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In short, you CAN catch fish on almost ANY lure at one time or another. And, some lures will catch fish a high percentage of the time...under right conditions. But, there is no lure...no matter how flashy and pricey...that will catch all of the fish all of the time. And I am glad for that. Once fishing becomes reduced to harvesting, it kinda kills the thrill for me.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I think that one of the things that comes into play, for me and many other anglers, is that whatever you put on your line, you have to fish it WITH CONFIDENCE. On every cast you must remain poised and alert, in expectation of a bite that can come at any time. And, if you are fishing a lure that has provided a lot of success in the past, and fishing a lake that you know, for species you know well, it IS much easier to fish with confidence. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Most of us have our "GO TO" baits or lures. We always get the "warm fuzzies" when we give up on the other stuff and finally tie on that lure in which we have the ultimate confidence. And, because we subtly and psychologically fish in differently, it often pays off for us when nothing else is producing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Yeah, I am like all fishermen. I still look at all the purty pictures and try to visualize how a new lure might work better. But when I do, I am reminded of one of my favorite "old folks jokes":[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]CHILD: "Grandpa, why do you read Playboy Magazine?"[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]GRANDPA: "Probably for the same reason I read National Geographic. They are both full of purty pictures of places I ain't never goin' to visit."[/#0000ff]
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[smallmouth89]

TD,

Thanks for your well considered response to my posts. You are right. I am indeed mostly a light tackle junkie and like you take great pleasure in fooling fish with my home made offerings. I have been fishing my own way for many years and the jig in various configurations is usually my go to lure. A lot of my new found interest in other lures comes from having purchased a medium light action baitcasting setup which is ideal for fishing plugs and crankbaits. If I ever get around to carrying four rods on my tube. I would have the baitcaster set up with some type of crank or jerkbait. My ultralite spinning rod would be equipped with some sort of jig. Another light spinning rod would have an in-line spinner or pony jig (or beetle spin) and my flyrod would likely be equipped with a full sink line with a spare spool holding the floating line for topwater use. So far I've stuck with only two or three rods as I can lash them to the side of my tube. (I had a couple of near disasters with shoreline vegetation with the upright carrier.)

I have done a lot of flyfishing at my club where only flyrods are allowed. They have not yet made any rules about what can be on the end of your leader so being an "out-of-the box" kind of guy when things get slow I have cast even tiny plugs that I have made or purchased. I also toss small spinner/flies. No matter how much movement I can build into my "normal" flies I can never get the flash, vibration and rattle possible with the plugs and spinners. I have caught two rainbows well over ten pounds on my flyrod at the club. One was taken on a crayfish coloured 3 inch bass tube and the other on one of your pony jigs. The regular fly guys don't normally catch these big holdover trout. By the way I have 10 streamers for every dry fly!) I don't actually catch too many of them either but man I sure see a lot of them. It must be the vibration that triggers them to race out of nowhere and somehow manage to miss my offering. This is what has piqued my curiosity about regular lures especially since I discovered the good fishing for bass, pike, crappie and perch on a local reservoir where I can fish any way I choose.

Another related question for you, Pat. For your style of fishing do you still use mono or do you cast the braids and superlines?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]For the last five or six years...maybe longer...I have used [url "http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/vertical-pod3.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20166-cat600392&rid=&indexId=cat600392&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat600392&id=0003198"]Silver Thread Excalibur[/url] (link) almost exclusively. Before that I tried all of the monofilaments and most of the braids, and I have tried several others since. But, for the type of fishing I do, I have found no other line that is clearer, casts better (little memory), more abrasion resistant and/or has better knot strength. And, the line diameter is comparable to other similarly rated monos and copolymers. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I use mostly 4 or 6 pound. When using 6 pound, and I get a snag while in my tube, it is very difficult for me to break the line by pulling on it...even while kicking hard backwards and pointing the rod at the snag while holding the reel. It is tough. I have landed big active flathead cats up to 30 pounds while fishing for crappies and bass with 6# Excalibur.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I also use it for ice fishing and catch lots of fish on 4 or 6 pound while others have to use 2# leaders in other lines to get bit. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I can honestly make the claim that I have never had a fish break me off with this line. I have even landed walleyes and northern pike with the lures well inside their toothy jaws.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are times and types of fishing in which superbraids may be better, for some applications. However, I continue to use my Excalibur and usually outfish most of the others on the same water at the same time.[/#0000ff]
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[Majja]

I switched to the Silver Thread last year and love it. All but one of my reels are spooled with it and when the time comes to re-spool after all my suffix is gone. I do also like the suffix as well, but just not as much as the Excalibur.
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[smallmouth89]

Pat and Majja,

After two strong votes of confidence for Excaliber Silver thread I'm definitely going to give it a try. What # test do you use on your baitcasters TD? Right now I have 8 pound mono on my finesse baitcasting reel. I have a couple more vintage baitcasters (Daiwa Millionaire and Abu Garcia Ambaseur 5000C) that I was thinking of trying a braided line on. I would likely save these for more heavy duty work. In an attempt to try and catch up in the tackle junkie world I recently ordered and received two Cabela Prodigy baitcasters. The sale price was so good i got two for the price of one so I have one with a LH retrieve to see if I will like that.

I was considering the use of braid on all my baitcasters because with the Stren line I've been using I get a lot of biteoffs from big pike when I'm fishing my go to jigs. Do you fellows think that Silver Thread can withstand pike attacks? I hate using metal leaders. Last year I bought a couple of those expensive titanium leaders for use in waters with a healthy pike population. As you can probably guess the crappie, bass and perch weren't too enthused about a jig attached to a piece of wire. Even the pike ignored me. As soon as I went leaderless I started to catch fish again but inevitably i would lose my jig to a sharp-toothed pike. I thought braid might address this problem but if you think "Silver Thread" is up to the task that's what I'll be using.

Pat,

Do you use braid to jig right under the tube? I would guess the sensitivity and lack of stretch would be an advantage in that situation.

Majja,
I noticed in your avatar that your H3 pontoons are really splayed out a lot further than most tubes. Does that help with the tracking?

Thanks Guys,
Don (from Winter Wonderland up here in Canada)
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]If you go fishing for pike, and want to recover your lures, don't fish with straight mono...or even straight braid. Braid holds up to pike teeth only slightly better than mono. Use wire. I hate it too, but I dislike "unplanned" disconnects where the fish swims away with a favorite lure. I have landed pike with straight Excalibur, but I have also had "biteoffs". It is not kevlar or steel.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The only time I MIGHT use braids would be for deep jigging with heavy lures for big fish. The deeper you fish, the more stretch there is with mono. That is the one BIG advantage of the braids...no stretch and maximum sensitivity to bites in the depths. That is simultaneously the big divantage. Hard hooksets can break leaders or tear hooks out of the mouths of some fish. Mono and a flexible rod overcome the heavy handed techniques of overanxious anglers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Most of the vertical jigging I do is in water less than 25 feet deep...and usually about half that. There is negligible stretch in the Excalibur and I can usually stay in touch with what is going on at the other end with little problem.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have several baitcasters that I use for everything from light ice fishing to heavy catfish rasslin'. Most of my revolving spool reels have either 6 or 8# Excalibur. But, even my "heavy" rigs usually do not have heavier than 10#. I cannot break 10# Excalibur while fishing from my tube. If I get snagged, I have to position my craft over the snag and wrap the line around my (covered) arm and then make a sudden pull. If I don't straighten the hook, or break the line, I often come close to pulling myself under. I have actually had to cut the line at the surface on more than one tough snag. Not likely a fish is going to break it. It will tow me first. And, some have.[/#0000ff]
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[smallmouth89]

Thanks for the reply Pat. What kind of wire leader do you use? I have caught lots of pike and big walleyes on 7 inch floating Rapalas and never lost a lure. With a mouth full of lure they never really got close to the line. I had a monster pike dart out of the weeds and take my tiny Storm Thundercraw right at my feet as I was sitting side dle on my kayak. I had him on for about 5 minutes before he severed the line. That was a time when as you say i valued the lure and really didn't want to lose it. I was tossing the crayfish for perch and crappie and was totally urprised by the big pike. I bought some 40 pound test fluorocarbon to make leaders but haven't had a chance to test this concept thoroughly. I did hook a nice Northern with one of my homemade crankbaits (maybe I should hook up my old lathe again) on the end of a heavy fluoro leader but the fish threw the hook. There was no apparent damage to the leader.

I really hate wire with jigs and the heavy fluoro is not gonna be a whole lot better. I'll probably just take my chances with the jis or maybe try tossing them with braid on one of my reels.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]The key to being able to satisfactorily land toothy critters on light lines is to use longer hardbaits and spinnerbaits that they typically munch from the rear...getting the hook without the line being inside their mouths. Unfortunately, the bigger fish often just flare their mouths and inhale the whole lure, no matter how big it is. And, once the attachment knot to your mono is inside the tooth line you might as well kiss your lure goodbye.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I make shorty wire leaders on light single strand wire that I also use in some lure making applications. It is only about .016 in diameter, but tests something like 30 pound test. If I am using 8 pound line, the wire will certainly withstand at least that much, and provide protection too. Even a short 6" piece of wire can make the difference, and is really not too cumbersome to work with. Surprisingly, it does not seem to significantly reduce strikes from other species either. [/#0000ff]
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[smallmouth89]

When I was a young man I used to fish all night long with my Fenwick Lunker Stik and my Ambaseur reel. I knew of a shoal that would be frequented by big walleyes (7 to 12 pounders). I would quietly paddle into casting range and toss out my 7" floating Rapala with all hooks removed save for the tail hook. Every big walleye that I caught was hooked on that tail hook. With the other hooks removed it eliminated fouling on the cast. The front hook would often tangle with the middle hook so it was the first to go. after catching a couple of brutes in 3 feet of water I would have to leave to troll for awhile. This would give the fish an opportunity to settle and re-enter the area. I would often take a good fish on the troll and these were all hooked on the tail hook as well.

When i fished this general area in the daytime I would put the middle hook back on because the pike liked to slam the lure from the side. The length of the rapala minnow was definitely a factor in eliminating bite-offs. I still have one of those 7 inch Rapalas that is full of teeth marks.

I have some thin flexible piano wire and being a musician I also have old thin wire strings from my guitar. A swivel on one end and a snap swivel on the front could transform a 6 inch piece into a leader. Think I'll give that a try.

TubeN2,

Do you have bluefish and barracuda on the California side? Have you used any of that knottable wire that they sell for toothy saltwater fish? (name escapes me at the moment)
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[bendopolo]

It is true that I often fish the Super Stretchy but why not! If you can swim that thing in front of a fish you are going to get him to eat it. The S.S. phenomena is really more of a system built around the Magic Lure. The S.S. is just one size and color combination that works well in my area. In Louisiana, at the mouth of the Mississippi, the colors were all Chartreuse or Chartreuse. If no Chartreuse then no Redfish. S.S. killed them. In Ohio, Just north of Columbus the Muskie ate 4 1/2 inch rainbow trout Sluggos on a Jighead. The original Magic Lure. No wire, just good (lucky) hooksets. 95% of the fish caught on these lures are hooked right in the top of the mouth. Even if they do bite you off, they are cheap so if you lose a few, so what of it. You will get more chances.
There is also the Mini-Magic. More for Trout, I have caught huge Redears (Shellcrackers), Big Crappie, and a surprising lot of 2 to 4 pound Channel Catfish. Go figure. There are pics of them in the Members Albums section of this Website. They are in the ' Various Pics' Album I think. It is truly the action of these lures that makes them so deadly. A gentle up and down slither works well in Spring and more and more pulses during Summer.In Fall and Winter I mostly just barely swim it, letting it fall to the bottom a few times during the retrieve. Try to start where the thermocline meets the bottom. Work your way up from there. Just remember it has to wiggle in front of the fishes mouth. Start by trying to fish there. What you are using matters less than where you put it. I just have fallen into using them becuse I am lazy and like my fishing to be easy. They are lighter than most lures and yet they cast far. Easier on the arms. It is easier to unhook one hook than two trebles. Far less damage to fingers in the long run. Mostly I just pinch the barb down, that way after the fish is beside the boat , just a shake and some slack will let them go. Bass stink pretty bad anyway so no worries.
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[doggonefishin]

I am more of a finesse (plastics) fisherman, but I do own a few Lucky Craft lures, along with some Rapalas and other, cheaper brands of crankbaits. The Lucky Craft lures do have superb workmanship and have reliably good action. I like a couple of color patterns they produce for some waters I frequent. That said, they don't always catch the most fish. I would recommend going with what you are already familiar with for the waters you fish and tune out the million ads for the "Best New Thing" that is always being touted.
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[Majja]

Yea the thing tracks like a dream. It is not as splayed as the picture looks though when I am in them they are pretty parallel. I just picked up one of those prodigy reels my self and am looking forward to giving it a try. I spooled mine with 10# and I have 6 and 8# on my spinning rigs, with the exception of my ultralite. I use Cuda on it, a buddy of mine was given about 3000 yds of the cuda so I get it for free and also really like it as well.
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[bendopolo]

That Cuda line is good stuff. Cheap and has the feel of more expensive line. The two pound is great. It gets a little springy in the cold but if thats the worst I can say, than this line is golden. I use it on up to Flippin' with the 15 pound, well they rate it at 15 but you could lift a car with it.
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