Foam Seats VS Inflatable.

[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I started this as a response on another thread, but I think it deserves a separate discussion.[/#0000ff]

[quote flygoddess]We had SFC with the foam seats. My Hubby HATED it. It collapses over time. He ended up putting thick Plexi-glass to give more support.
ME, the two piece foam seat seemed to separate. I ended up using CARPET samples.

Since, we have had H3, and the Navigator II with inflatable seats.
They are adjustable far more than FOAM. You can go firm in the seat, soft in the back or vis versa.
Along with the packability.
I am talking, I had one of the FIRST SFC, so that long ago.
I am, 5'7" and on the thin side...what is scary about inflatable?

IN MY OPINION..inflatable is FAR better than FOAM in so many levels.

just my opinion.

OH, and the FOAM can get water logged.[/quote]

[cool][#0000ff]As we have agreed to agree in the past, much of this is about personal opinion, and I allow everybody their own opinions. But there are a couple of points here that involve science and need to be properly discussed.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]1. The bottom seats are inserted in two pieces. They will go in either way...front to back or side to side. The design is for them to go in side to side (see attached pics). This allows them to be compressed when the air chambers are inflated and actually increases the strength. There can be no separation between the two pieces if properly inserted. If the foam pieces are inserted end to end, there is the potential for heavy weight in the middle to cause sagging and separation. There is no lateral support from compression.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have known or interacted with hundreds of other tubers over the years who have foam seats...including our own Fat Cats. TubeBabe is a big girl and has never had any problem with either the bottom or back seats in her Fat Cats. And, that is averaging about a hundred trips a year for five years on the first Fat Cat and two years so far on the second. I have also fished the foam seats with no problems. The only two cases I was asked to help with were when the people having problems had inserted the seats the wrong way...end to end. One was a Fat Cat. The other was a Fish Cat. Both worked perfectly after repositioning the foam.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]2. The foam used in float tube seats is high density closed cell foam. It is chemically and physically impossible to "waterlog" it. You could hold it under water for a year and it would not absorb a single drop of water. Not good information.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]INFLATABLE SEAT ADVANTAGES:[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]1. Adjustability for comfort[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]2. Compressibility for compact storage[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]INFLATABLE SEAT NEGATIVES:[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]1. More expensive option[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]2. Subject to expansion or contraction due to temperature changes.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]3. Subject to punctures, seam leaks and/or sudden seam failure.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]4. Subject to valve problems.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In two of the attached pictures, I am showing potential inflatable seat problems. The first is the seat from my first SFC. It developed pinhole leaks on virtually every inside seam junction on both sides of the bottom seat cushion. I used a couple of tubes of AquaSeal over the years and still never knew when I was going to have a soggy ride. And, this was from the time when they were made in the USA.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The second picture is of the inflatable seat cushions from an H3 Freestyle tube...after the first installation and tubing trip. The corrugations formed into the seat all popped loose and I had a big balloon, instead of a well designed seat cover. I had to travel to Ogden to get a replacement. It was cheerfully replaced...after about two weeks...but it was inconvenient. So much for "Made in the USA" as an argument for quality.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]BOTTOM LINE: No matter what products we buy these days we are subject to getting poor quality or manufacturing defects in any individual purchase, regardless of the overall quality or reputation of the manufacturer. While we should all do what we can to try to buy American made products, sometimes we have to weigh features and benefits against hype and price. The fact is that not everything we want and need is available in domestic made products anymore. Another fact is that some of the offshore stuff is superior to domestic...if the domestic is available at all.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The best policy is to do plenty of research, and look at customer reviews. Then buy what you want from a reputable supplier who will back up their products...domestic or offshore made.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

One problem with the foam placement. What you say makes great sense, but not the case in apparently several models.
You say side by side.
Mine had a TAPER to them. Higher in the front (one piece of foam) and lower in the back so NO WAY could you put them side by side. Well you could but you would be sitting lop sided.
I can't believe you didn't know that, but again, this was one of the first SFC.

The fact it was higher in the front was a great idea.

Now being a fly tier and a fair I.Q. I realize the foam cannot retain the water, but the POCKET it goes in can. It seem to me, all the little air pockets from the foam held the water in the pillow case seat more than the inflatable. And yes I know there are holes in the pillow case, but not on the edges which is where they should be for proper drainage.

We have had inflatable seats now for 15 years (in one form or another) and NEVER had a leak. I mean nothing...perfect, as good as day one.
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[peter805]

Thank you for the great post TD. As you know I have
a SFC (inflatable seat and back ,two pieces).
No problem leaking just yet. However I think I want to
try the foam bottom seat. I think it will make me feel
safer (just in case of....................)and keep the infladable
for when I fly it to destination.
I store my tube inside my camper trailer 80% inflated
so storage is no problem.

Peter
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[flygoddess]

Ya know, thinking back, aside from there was more water in the seat when we came to shore, I really had no complaints with the FOAM bottom.
Oh yeah, and the foam sliding out the back at times from the force of the back of my calf while kicking. You would have to see it or experience that one, but it happens.
But like I said, I have had no issue with the inflatable. And the only Styro foam I like anymore is my indicators.

Speaking of which...I have not looked at the newer seats, but isn't the cushions still Styro Foam and not CLOSE CELL which is the stuff THONGS, thermal mattresses or HOPPERS are made of.[][laugh]
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[TubeDude]

"isn't the cushions still Styro Foam and not CLOSE CELL which is the stuff THONGS, thermal mattresses or HOPPERS are made of. "

[cool][#0000ff]You are referring to items made of FOAM RUBBER...not closed cell foam. I doubt that Styro foam was ever used for float tube seats. It is granular, prone to crumble and IT DOES have the potential to soak up water and disintegrate. "Closed cell foam", as in the attached picture, is used in many high tech applications for cushioning, insulation, etc. It will not degrade under any conditions...except extreme heat....enough to melt the other parts of your float tube.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I would not think of wearing a foam rubber thong. Regular wedgies are bad enough.[/#0000ff]



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[flygoddess]

Sorry, I meant the STYRO as a joke, like the close cell being a THONG. The foam used for Fly Tying is called closed Cell and it is as you put it "rubber"
Non the less, foam.

That there in the picture is the seat for sure. An airy, rubbery feeling foam. I have received equipment in that foam and you really can't rip it with your hands. Strong stuff.
Same thing in boat safety seats isn't it?
And the water log statement was again more the tube pocket not the foam. Just don't seem to have that same problem with the inflatable seats. Maybe they are more a sealed fit, I don't know.

Like I said, not sure how or why, but the back piece of the bottom wanted to slip out the back. Not all the way, just maybe a 1/2" to an inch. But, at times I would look down and have all this slack seat because the foam was in the V.
The little velcro flap helped a little.

And again, I had no problem with the SEAT area of the seat.
I am 100% sure, the reason for going to inflatable is packing.

But to me, this is not a bad thing...I like both seats. Of course, nothing beats the molded, padded plastic seats.[]

HEAY! I thought you were heading to Utah Lake? I had a little boat for you to try.[]
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[peter805]

How can I get some of that foam seat (bottom)? I would
like to try it out.

Peter
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Knowing the way things go in this industry...and others...it would not surprise me to know that there were differences in the early Fat Cats seats. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That foam does come in different densities. Some is much lighter duty, for insulating only. If it has to provide rigid support, it has higher specs. At least that is what I have been told. I don't know what the specs are for Outcast's seats, but they seem to work pretty well for most folks.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I was heading to Utah Lake...at Dark Thirty. Just got back and am a bit hammered. Still wanna lookee see at the red toy. Will be going down to Cabelas to pick up an order tomorrow morning but should be around all weekend after that. Let me know when and where and we will take care of business.[/#0000ff]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]If you have the SFC, then you might try contacting Outcast or one of their dealers to see if you can buy just the foam seat for a regular Fat Cat[/#0000ff][#0000ff]. I doubt if I would trust buying something else, even if you could provide the exact measurements and specifications. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]My suggestion would be to call Customer Service at Aire and ask what the availability is.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Dude, I remember seeing the different foams. There was like a Blue, a Pink. Like you said, different density. Forgot all about that.
I think I first saw them at the Original Anglers's Inn or maybe it was the old Sportsmen's Warehouse.
That was awhile ago.....sheesh, time flies.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]As Kermit the Frog says: "See how fun times when you're having flies."[/#0000ff]
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[mojorizing]

[b]My whole problem of the foam seats was after a while the curve in the back. The bottom was not comfortable for me either. The back of the seat would curve in due to my weight and having a tendency to lean back relaxing. I'm not quite as big as you, but with my build (6'3" and 230) and the way I sat in the SFC, I ended up putting plexiglas the same size as the back foam to help negate the flex of the foam. It did work but there was still some unwanted flexing.
H3's inflatable seat- not problem one. Reason I like the inflatable, is the custom adjusting you can do with the seat and back. Just like the TV ad for the Sleep Number Bed. I adjust both to my liking. So we've had the H3 for a about 3 years, the Navigators for 2 years. Hot, cold, in between.
On your cons-
If inflatable seats are subject to expansion or contraction due to temperature changes, then it's not been noticeable to me.
Subject to punctures, seam leaks and/or sudden seam failure. No different than the rest of the tube/toon. Diamonds are forever, not urethane or vinyl bladders or inflatable seats.
I guess that you could have valve problems in seats, but then again, I/we haven't experienced any problems yet. Some of these valves in the seats are the same as in some kickboat's I've seen and tubes. They should last just as long as a main valve on a tube or toon.
Inflatable seats more expensive- Yes, for now. With the choice of foam or inflatable seats, today inflatables will cost more for the consumer. I'll bet it's cheaper for the manufacturer to make an inflatable seat, than to buy and cut (if necessary) a foam seat and back out and have someone stuff them in the tube.


Like you mentioned- it's all a personal preference thing.[/b]
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[albinotrout]

told my wife about the two different seats. She immediately told me she wanted the foam seat. Looks like she is getting a fish cat 4.[]
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[flygoddess]

Cool, I think every one should own one at one point of their life.[angelic]
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[mamatrout]

Thankyou for your opinion. But I still need a fashion show with it.[] I like the fish cat because it looks more styling.
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[TubeDude]

"If inflatable seats are subject to expansion or contraction due to temperature changes, then it's not been noticeable to me. "

[cool][#0000ff]That has never been a noticeable problem on my inflatable seats either. But, there have been a few tubers who have complained about soft seats or slipping out of the seats and the problem usually turns out to be either underinflation before launching or deflation in cold water.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I recently DID experience a problem with EXPANSION. The bottom seat cushion on my SFC split a seam when I let it sit in the hot sun for a while after coming ashore and before I could bleed off some air. I had taken care of that on my tube, but overlooked the heavily inflated lower seat. (It was replaced quickly by Outcast with a phone call and overnight shipping)[/#0000ff]
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[mojorizing]

[quote albinotrout] told my wife about the two different seats. She immediately told me she wanted the foam seat. Looks like she is getting a fish cat 4.[][/quote]
Hope she has a great time in it. Sounds like you have a new float fishing partner. Just have fun.

One thing that hasn't been touched on until TD's mentioned it but still important. Inflatables sitting in the sun on the shore unattended.
Let some air out if you're not going to be on the water for a while, or get it out of the sun. With the temp's going up for mid summer, it can cut short your trip.
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[albinotrout]

Once I pick one up for mamatrout I will have to try it out and see how it works. I am used to the pontoon and a round caddis. That is if I can get to it before she does[], or I will never get to try it out.[laugh]
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