Lund Alaskan or Predator TILLER 20’

[toyguy]

[font "Times New Roman"]Anyone know of anyone who has either of these boats? Preferably the Alaskan. Tiller models are rare creatures, so I know this is a shot in the dark. [/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"]Looking for the 20’. Sure would like to get a face to face with either of these.[/font]
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[Tarponjim]

So, are you looking to buy one, or just see it? I have a '97 20' Alaskan, but its a side console, and not for sale. If I could trade it for any other boat right now to work the Gorge in, I'd pass and keep it.
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[toyguy]

Wow, the man hisself, T Jim replies...

Looking to buy. BUT, I haven't seen one "live" yet.

If I could trade it for any other boat right now to work the Gorge in, I'd pass and keep it.

And that would be all the testimonial I need as to why I'm looking Alaskan.

And Da Gorge wind and waves are all the wet-testing that needs to done. If it works there, it'll work anywhere.

It's a relatively light boat, so how's rough water handling? Are your kidneys and back still alive and kickin?
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[Tarponjim]

I'll admit that its a rough-ridin' SOB. It does bounce around pretty good, especially if you're going head-on into some 3-footers. It is also wet-riding unless you're directly head-on or following. If you hit big waves at any angle, you get a shower. I find myself going "the long way" sometimes so that I don't have to quarter into any waves. I'll run parallel and ride the troughs, then cut into the waves, to get from point A to point B. Crossing Linwood or Swim Beach in a big west wind is a good example.

Having said that though, I've only had waves thrown at me here twice that I turned around in. I "probably" could have made it, but I don't run through "probablys." I've actually taken several waves directly over the bow of my Alaskan, and still didn't feel like I was going to die or stick the nose. I hit the bilge pump, cinched my life jacket a little tighter, slowed down a bit more, and kept on going. I did NOT have customers on the boat!

The two times I turned around were with a fully loaded boat with customers, and it just wasn't worth any risk at all.

If you want a smooth, dry riding boat in rough water, you need to go fiberglass. Period. If you want a tough-as-nails boat you can bang into boat docks, beach on rocks, break ice, and do about anything else you want with it, you need a Lund Alaskan! I've never seen an aluminum boat that rides smooth and dry in the waves though. Even mine, with 3 group-29 batteries, a full tank of gas, and three large customers--rides rough in the waves.

Mine has about 2000 days on it, and still doesn't leak a drop. It does need some new flooring though, as the wood is beginning to soften up in a few areas.

Also, If you want a 20-footer, I'd forget about a tiller. First, the motor will be too big unless the boat is seriously under powered, and that would be a huge mistake. You need a MINIMUM of 90 hp on a 20' Alaskan. Second, its much easier to control a boat of that size with a steering wheel. Plus, you have something to hang onto, and your weight is better distributed.
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[toyguy]

Boy, I surely do appreciate your detailed reply and the time you took to write it.

OK, let’s go thru this point by point. FWIW, I currently have a Smokercraft 16 Big Fish 40 hp tiller. I write that because I can relate to a lot of what you have written.

I'll admit that its a rough-ridin' SOB. It does bounce around pretty good, especially if you're going head-on into some 3-footers. It is also wet-riding unless you're directly head-on or following. If you hit big waves at any angle, you get a shower. I find myself going "the long way" sometimes so that I don't have to quarter into any waves. I'll run parallel and ride the troughs, then cut into the waves, to get from point A to point B.

[#4040ff][#4040ff]You mean it’s not just my boat??? Hitting a wave wrong generally means a shower. As such, I usually just ride the troughs to stay dry.[/#4040ff]
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Having said that though, I've only had waves thrown at me here twice that I turned around in. I "probably" could have made it, but I don't run through "probablys." I've actually taken several waves directly over the bow of my Alaskan, and still didn't feel like I was going to die or stick the nose. I hit the bilge pump, cinched my life jacket a little tighter, slowed down a bit more, and kept on going. I did NOT have customers on the boat!

[#4040ff]From another website: ” I've been in 4' rollers and didn't take waves over the bow, however I was VERY careful.”[/#4040ff]

If you want a smooth, dry riding boat in rough water, you need to go fiberglass. Period.

[#4040ff]Is that because glass is heavier, or is it because glass is MUCH more dead to vibration transmission?[/#4040ff]
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[#4040ff]The reason I ask is because I’m looking at a glass boat that actually weighs slightly less than the Alaskan 20, so I’m curious as to how it’s gonna ride.[/#4040ff]
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[#4040ff]I’m going back to my first home (and your second?), Florida, soon, and I’m gonna wet test it to see for myself.[/#4040ff]
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[#4040ff]FWIW: [/#4040ff][url "http://www.pangamarine.com/superskiff_specs.html"][#4040ff]http://www.pangamarine.com/superskiff_specs.html[/#4040ff][/url][#4040ff] I’m really curious about the panga hull design.[/#4040ff]

If you want a tough-as-nails boat you can bang into boat docks, beach on rocks, break ice, and do about anything else you want with it, you need a Lund Alaskan!

[#4040ff]That’s a perfect synopsis. And it’s also the problem. Because I want both. BUT, since I do a lot of boat camping, it’s just hard to look away from the Alaskan.[/#4040ff]

I've never seen an aluminum boat that rides smooth and dry in the waves though. Even mine, with 3 group-29 batteries, a full tank of gas, and three large customers--rides rough in the waves.

[#4040ff]I spend more time using a boat as a utilitarian fishing/camping tool than I do riding thru rough water. Again, advantage Alaskan.[/#4040ff]

Also, If you want a 20-footer, I'd forget about a tiller. First, the motor will be too big unless the boat is seriously under powered, and that would be a huge mistake. You need a MINIMUM of 90 hp on a 20' Alaskan. Second, its much easier to control a boat of that size with a steering wheel. Plus, you have something to hang onto, and your weight is better distributed.

[#4040ff]This is a HUGE new piece of information. I’ve read Alaskan 20 T reviews on other websites, and no one has ever mentioned this. This morning, I found someone in Canada with a 20’ T on another Board. I’m gonna register and PM him about this. My next boat is my last boat, so it needs to be right.[/#4040ff]
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[#4040ff]I’ll post his response if he replies.[/#4040ff]


[#4040ff]BTW, during the course of writing this reply this morning, I found a couple of fantastic fiberglass tiller boats. [/#4040ff]
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[url "http://skeeterboats.com/products/11/28"][#4040ff]http://skeeterboats.com/products/11/28[/#4040ff][/url]
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[url "http://www.warrior-boats.com/bt/2090_bt_xst_tournament_eagle.html"][#4040ff]http://www.warrior-boats.com/bt/2090_bt_xst_tournament_eagle.html[/#4040ff][/url][#4040ff] [/#4040ff]
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[#4040ff]Aside from the tiller/bigger motor issue you’ve mentioned, another big issue is I have with a tiller is running at high speed (30+) for a distance (think Powell) without a windshield.[/#4040ff]





[#4040ff]I'm in no hurry, so there's plenty of time to figure this out. But I still want to see an Alaskan![/#4040ff]
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[#4040ff]tg[/#4040ff]
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[Tarponjim]

You're doing your homework! The tiller is just too hard on the driver, in my opinion. It also limits the horsepower, and underpowered boats NEVER work as they are designed. It also puts undue stress on the outboard because you have to run it too hard. I rarely ever need to run my outboard near full-throttle. It will turn 5500 rpm. 4500 is my cruising speed. That DOUBLES the gas mileage, and is much easier on the motor in the long run.

I also have a center-console fiberglass boat at present. Even at only 16-feet, it rides much smoother than the Lund. I think it's because the hull is just smoother. It tends to slide over or cut through the waves instead of bounce over them. Its more slippery. Also, most fiberglass boats are not as flat bottomed as aluminums. Remember, the Alaskan is a flat-bottom boat except for the very front, and that's not in the water much when on plane. Flat bottoms=rough ride. Sharp hulls=smoother ride. Also, like you said, fiberglass doesn't vibrate like aluminum does when you're taking a beating. Its just more "solid."

As for the Panga, YES!!! If I couldn't have my Alaskan, that would be the next boat. If I ever move to Florida, that's what I'll probably get. They are great! I've never owned one, but I've ridden on a few. They're dry, smoother than aluminum, roomy, efficient, and pretty durable. Check out some of the captains using them in Florida.

If you go to Alaska and visit the coastal eskimo villages, all you see is Lunds. Their lives depend on their boats. If you go to Mexico, all you see is Pangas. I wonder why???

I had a customer who owned one of those Warriors too. I fished in it a few times, and it was a very nice boat. A little too much boat for my needs, but I'd take it!

You've got the right idea. Wet test first!!! Be sure to have some friends with you so you get a real test with the boat loaded. Most any boat will ride nice on a smooth day with two people on board. Add one or two more, some batteries, a full tank of gas, some whitecaps, and some "goodies," and its a whole other craft.

Load it up and get out in some chop!

I've come to the conclusion that there's no "perfect" boat for multiple situations. The good captains in Florida have several boats. You just have to decide what your priorities are. For me, with the Alaskan, its all about durability and ease of use, and the kicker is its ability to get us off the lake when the gale comes up. I don't have to wax it (Hell, I never even wash it!), its easy to lauch and load by myself, it takes a beating, its wide open for fishing (I've removed the lounge seats and 2/3 of the windshield), and has a vinyl-covered wood floor. No carpet to clean, no fiberglass to mark (and then need cleaning.)
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[toyguy]

Once again, thanks for your time. Great response.

Once again, point by point
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The tiller is just too hard on the driver, in my opinion.

I still gotta PM that guy with the 20’ Tiller…

It also limits the horsepower

Come to think of it, whenever reading the spec’s of a boat that have tiller and console config’s, the tiller model always has less of a max horsepower rating than the console version.

Why is that?

It also puts undue stress on the outboard because you have to run it too hard.

Good point. Smaller motor = more work to get to same cruising speed as big motor.

I rarely ever need to run my outboard near full-throttle. It will turn 5500 rpm. 4500 is my cruising speed. That DOUBLES the gas mileage, and is much easier on the motor in the long run.

You are preaching to the choir, brutha. That is exactly how I run my current motor. I am just not a run and gun type of guy. If I’m fully loaded for a 7 nite camping trip, running at 4600 r’s (21 mph) on a 5,500 WOT, I get 6 miles per gallon. Bullfrog to Escalante last week was 5.5 gallons. That’s insane.

I also have a center-console fiberglass boat at present. Even at only 16-feet, it rides much smoother than the Lund.

16’ glass is smoother than 20’ lumie. That’s hard info to ignore.

I think it's because the hull is just smoother.

Try this on your hull. Guys on the auto detailing board swear by it. I haven’t tried it yet, but I totally think it’s going to give me a slicker/quicker ride.

[url "http://www.rejex.com/"][#800080]http://www.rejex.com/[/#800080][/url]

As for the Panga, YES!!! If I couldn't have my Alaskan, that would be the next boat. If I ever move to Florida, that's what I'll probably get. They are great! I've never owned one, but I've ridden on a few. They're dry, smoother than aluminum, roomy, efficient, and pretty durable.

OK, there’s the money quote of your post! This is huge news! When a seasoned captain like you says that would be your boat if not for the Alaskan, I'm listening pretty hard.

When I read that yesterday, you really set me off and running. I had first discovered the panga about 6 months ago when I started kicking around the idea of a new boat.

Of all the different type of glass boats out there, this might be the style for me. It’s light, sips gas, and is solid and safe in rough water.

I’m not crazy about the 78” beam (less storage!), so I’m gonna need for them to add storage boxes, but it’s a real good start.

The nagging problem I have with glass is that it might not be best for my style. I am a Lake Powell camper. This boat will see a lotta time on rock and in brush. And that’s what great about lumie utility open-deck boats. My Smokercraft is great. I’ve got 22 nites beach camping in it this year at Powell, and it is just so practical. And in a lot of ways I’m loathe to trade up. Since I’m always alone, weight is an issue, (beaching, unbeaching, moving the boat around from outside the boat).And a longer boat means a bigger wind profile. And since I will quit bass fishin before the next guy rather than fight the wind with my trolling motor, I’ve got some concerns about that, too.

But these problems might just need to make me a better boat-handling captain, that’s all.

I had a customer who owned one of those Warriors too. I fished in it a few times, and it was a very nice boat. A little too much boat for my needs, but I'd take it!

You and I think alike. I’m a less is more type of guy. I just don’t need that. Plus, I’ll take the panga hull design over deep-v anyday. Plus the Warrior weight. I want a boat that’s light enuff to beach launch. That’s the panga!

You've got the right idea. Wet test first!!! Be sure to have some friends with you so you get a real test with the boat loaded. Most any boat will ride nice on a smooth day with two people on board. Add one or two more, some batteries, a full tank of gas, some whitecaps, and some "goodies," and its a whole other craft.

Load it up and get out in some chop!

When I wrote my brothers yesterday to see if they want to wet-test with me, I added that I hope it’s bad water. It actually would be a tough break to have calm water. I need to see what this thing will do!

I've come to the conclusion that there's no "perfect" boat for multiple situations. The good captains in Florida have several boats.

Looks like you, the captains and me are thinking the same thing. There is no boat that will fit all applications. Especially if the boat will see salt and fresh water use.

You just have to decide what your priorities are. For me, with the Alaskan, its all about durability and ease of use, and the kicker is its ability to get us off the lake when the gale comes up. I don't have to wax it (Hell, I never even wash it!), its easy to launch and load by myself, it takes a beating, its wide open for fishing (I've removed the lounge seats and 2/3 of the windshield), and has a vinyl-covered wood floor. No carpet to clean, no fiberglass to mark (and then need cleaning.)

Yup. And that’s why I love my Smokercraft. Completely practical and utilitarian. My priorities will be mainly Lake Powell extended-camping, and that lends itself to open-deck alumie. But my next boat will see saltwater fishing, and that lends itself to glass.

I think the Super-skiff is a perfect compromise, and hell, I’ll just slap some keelguard on the hull. Lake Powell rocks be damned.

Thx for all your tips on this, Jim. Your tiller concerns about engine strain might just change my mind about a side console (maybe). And your panga testimonial is big.


My next Gorge trip will be April ’10. If I see you near Lucerne/Anvil, and you’re not with customers (ha!), I’ll tool over. I wanna check out an Alaskan 20’, ya know?


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[Tarponjim]

We've about covered all the bases. However, you just said your next boat will see some saltwater. That would settle it for me. FIBERGLASS! Aluminum and warm salt water doesn't mix, especially if you have electronics. Electrolysis will creep into every wire, every screw, any metal touching the boat, and every fitting. I had my older 16' Lund in Florida one winter. I had to rinse that thing like no tomorrow, and I still got corrosion. Not on the aluminum, but on any metal that was touching the aluminum. Ask around and/or google electrolysis, and you'll see what I mean. Its the biggest pain in the @ss in saltwater. I'm still learning about it, and sacrificial zincs, and all that stuff. Saltwater fish and fishing are worth it though!

Looks like you're down to choosing and rigging a Panga!!!

(I want one too![])
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[toyguy]

That NEVER occurred to me! Once again, the seasoned captain sheds some light.

So that’s why I never saw lumie in Florida.

Wow, given that…

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Looks like you're down to choosing and rigging a Panga!!!

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Gulp! Have I found my retirement boat???


I e-mailed the guy this AM; hope he’s available Halloween weekend. Cross your fingers for availability and rough waters…

Thanks for all your help here, Jim.



tg
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