Stop the Rainbow nonsense

[EATACUTT]

This is for all of you rainbow Nazis out there here are the facts. Including IDF&G and TU.

[ul][/ul][li][/li]The bull trout is on the threatened species list. And fishing of all kinds is allowed in the salmon river where they reside. We will not lose our fishing rights to the federal government as stated.

[li][/li]Wyoming recognizes the genetic difference between the Snake river fine spotted and the Yellowstone cutts, Idaho does not.[li][/li]75 years of stocking records show Rainbows along with Yellowstone Cutts and Snake river Cutts stocked in Idaho's snake river until the late 1980's Thats 75 years of hybrydization that will never be undone.

[li][/li]The Cutts in the South Fork are a mixed breed and have genetically been tainted by IDF&G stocking in the South Fork and USFW in Palies.[li][/li]Palies is Stocked annually with Snake River Fine Spotted with upwards of one million fish.[li][/li]Fish do escape from palies and with 1% coming through the dam that is 10,000 genetically altered Cutts entering the South Fork each year. Over 10 years that is 100,000 and they have been stocking palies for the last 30 years at least.

[li][/li]Drought has had a significant impact on the survival of tributary spawning Cutts and over all Cutt numbers. And with another drought year on the horizon you can bet the numbers of Cutts will decline even further. The rainbows are filling that void.
The solution lies in beefing up spawning success by placing egg boxes in the tributary's and keeping water in the streams and not in the farmers fields. There will be an immediate increase in Cutthroat numbers because the spawning box success rate is upwards of 90% compared to less than 10% for naturally spawning Cutts. Keep a 6 fish rainbow limit and stop all of this fear based nonsense. The hardest choice of all is to confront those that water our fish on their fields. Keep a level head and your rod tips high.
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[Everet14]

What is the point of this post? Are we sportsman supposed to go and set up the egg boxes like you mentioned????? I don't see what stating known facts is doing......

Last I heard, Cutt numbers were up this year.......

Your user name was an awesome precursor to this thread.
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[tob04002]

I agree with Everett...what are you trying to say? ID F&G and USFW isn't going to change any policies concerning the South Fork of the Snake river just because of your little post on a fishing forum. Why waste your time and write that?
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[EATACUTT]

We need to presure IDF&G and TU to place the egg boxes in Rainy, Paliaes, Garden, Conant, Pine, and Burnes creeks and keep the water flowing. Imagin a 90% spawing sucess rate! The fish would be jumping in our boats, no tackle needed.
As for the obivious we do not have a pure strain of cutthroat left to even be considered for any listing or Federal protection. The Feds are more worried about habitat protection than any rainbow intrusion. And IDF&G is more worried about job protection. This is a big case of IDG&F doing CYA and placing the burden on the sportsman where they need bigger sholders to carry the blame for not addressing the issue of dewatering the spawning tributarys.
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[Everet14]

Yes that would be awesome! A ninety percent success rate would be incredible. I haven't done a lot of research on egg boxes, but from what you have stated it sounds like a great idea.
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[Bassnbob]

To me this is a pointless thread that has no bearing on what BFT is about. You don't even have the balls to post where you are from in your profile. As far as I'm concerned you're not even from Idaho and just trying to stir up trouble amongst Idaho anglers.

Now go back to your state and leave us alone.
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[Cotton_Released]

This is a big case of IDG&F doing CYA and placing the burden on the sportsman where they need bigger sholders to carry the blame for not addressing the issue of dewatering the spawning tributarys.

Hmm...Do you really think ID F&G has a say in how the water in the tributaries is used? Those water rights belong to the water rights holders before they belong to fish and wildlife, unless a species is listed under the Endangered Species List. And if that were the case, it wouldn't be ID F&G that was managing the water levels but rather the USFWS. You use the word "feds" like they are a bad thing but in reality they are probably the only ones with the real power to step in and keep water in the tributaries and implement your solution.



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[cpierce]

Which spawning tributaries do you feel the farmers are dewatering on the South Fork of the Snake? I am not even sure you know the area. Where are you from?
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[X2FSH]

Hmm...Do you really think ID F&G has a say in how the water in the tributaries is used?
[/quote] They do seem to have a say in the flow rates.
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[Bassnbob]

The tributaries that were mentioned are all free flowing and dependent on snowfall for flow rates. You know IDFG isn't going to stop the farmers from using the water. I would imagine the farmers have first dibs on it, as is most of the water in Idaho.
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[Cotton_Released]

X2FSH,

Fish and Game only has a say to a point and it is nothing close to that of which the original poster is suggesting they do. They can recommend some increases or decreases in flows but ultimately it comes down to fulfilling water rights to cities, endangered species, farmers and other states, whether the OP likes it or not.
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[cpierce]

So what are your facts?

Where exactly are the dewatered tributaries that so endanger the cutthroat spawn?
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[EATACUTT]

Rainy creek for one, suffers from flood irrigation and high water temps. Palies creek has a number of irrigation ditches where young cuttys never make it to the river.
Garden creek restoration cost over $900,000 and suffers from low flows from irrigation demands. That $900,000 would have gone a long way to buy water rights to ensure proper flows during drought years like this one. 53% of normal snow pack will kill the tributary spawning this year.
Pray for more moisture for everyone ,irrigators and fishermen alike. Every snowflake and rain drop means another breath for another trout.
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[MMDon]

This guys is a troll or site pest if you will. Maybe he hasn't been watching every other Western State that is being sued over invasive species and ESA listings. Better we do what we can with what we have then have what can be done forced on us under some federal ruling.

. . . besides, where is there a shortage of Rainbows? So far as I can tell they are alive and doing well.


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[Cotton_Released]

$900k would go a long way to buying up water rights

Nope. I don't know any farmer that would sell his water rights without selling his land as well. Once you have to start buying land, kiss your $900k goodbye really fast.

This thread is pointless. You have not presented any actual studies in which you cite your claims nor have you presented any logical and feasible means to solve your "problem."

Why don't you go to a F&G scoping meeting next time and suggest your solution. I'm sure they'd love to discuss it with you. No one here is going to take you seriously so your attempts at debate are worthless. [:p]
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[chrome_junky]

ok eatacutt i just read every post on this thread and this is my opinion on the post and the topic. i agree with one valid point you made. better management of the tributaries where cuttthroat breed is neededpalies, rainy creek, etc.). but the way you posted the thread and the demeanor you went about discussing the topic was aggressive and belittling to BFT users we are not all 100% anti rainbow nor are we all 100% for decissions made by the fish and game. what we are guilty of is having a good time and sharing it with friends on this wonderful website. none of us have any problam with somebody coming on to this website and stating their opinions and beliefs about certain situations but i can see where my fellow members were offended by what you said. vallid links to where you got your claims would help your cause but i warn you everybody on this website is well versed on rules and publications of our local fishery's and will defend them with very last breaths that keep them alive. so before you jam your stick any further into the hornets nest............Welcome to the site! []
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[AverysAdventure]

LMAO
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[Wombat911]

Well said Chrome
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[cpierce]

Well said Chrome.

The rest of my comments now are to Eatacut.

I have to second the comments on backing up your statements with facts and not being inflammatory in your comments. Find out as much as you can on the situation and share it with us.

You are preaching to the choir here. I would bet that 90% of the fishing done by members of this forum is catch and release when that is appropriate. We love fishing and fish or we wouldn't be on this forum. Certainly none of us value rainbows any less than you do.

The South Fork of the Snake river is a special section of water, and we support all that is being done to keep it that way. There are a lot of factors in managing the system, and one of them that hasn't even been mentioned is the bird problem.

The pelicans know when spawning time is and they take an unbelivable toll on the cutts in the tributaries especially in low water years. Maybe you could change your name to EataPelican! [laugh]

The point is that there are a lot of factors against the cutts and not many factors that F&G have any control over. Trying to reduce the numbers of rainbows in this system is a valid option in the given circumstances, but it will only work for the benefit of the cutt population if lots of people do their best to help out and make it work.

In most situations natural reproduction is the best, but Eatacutt your comments on egg boxes are probably good. I am sure it is something F&G has thought of too. I don't know what the limiting factors are with the egg boxes. I suggest that you email F&G and investigate. Maybe there is something here that we as a group can do. Is it a money factor? How much? Could we raise the money and maybe even put in some volunteer hours?

Welcome to the forum, and join us as a group in doing what we can to preserve what we have. [cool]
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[windriver]

First of all welcome to BFT. As you can see we have a fairly tight group of fishermen who are very reasonable and willing to discuss many fishing related issues.

As you have also seen it is usually not a good idea to jump in someones sandbox if you haven't even introduced yourself yet.[laugh]

I agree with you on the need for water and better managment of the tributaries. At the same time the farmers who live in the area are not likely to give up their water rights without a lot of money.

Windriver
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