10-23-2010, 01:48 PM
I think I seen you...[cool]
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Big Strawberry smallmouth
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10-23-2010, 11:12 PM
Thats a great fish no matter how his grandma got there!
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10-24-2010, 09:56 PM
His grandma never saw Strawberry. That's the point. They don't reproduce at the "Berry". The adults do quite well. They spawn too late in the summer for the young to survive. They (the fry) don't grow big enough by the end of the growing season, which is just about now, to last until the middle of May with little or nothing to eat.
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10-25-2010, 03:52 PM
[quote Fishrmn]His grandma never saw Strawberry. That's the point. They don't reproduce at the "Berry". The adults do quite well. They spawn too late in the summer for the young to survive. They (the fry) don't grow big enough by the end of the growing season, which is just about now, to last until the middle of May with little or nothing to eat.[/quote]
How do you know they would spawn too late in the season? Just curious.... [signature]
10-25-2010, 05:22 PM
'Cause it takes until about the end of June or early July for the water to get warm enough for them to spawn. There isn't enough time for the fry to get big enough to survive the starvation period from now until mid May. Do smallies live in Strawberry? Yes. Do they spawn in Strawberry? Yes. Do the fry survive in Strawberry? No.
When the algae started to die a couple of weeks ago at Strawberry, it signaled the end of the growing season there. The algae dies, and the organisms that depend on it for food begin to starve, or go dormant. If a fish is big enough to eat other fish the feeding continues. That's one of the reasons that Rapalas and Lucky Craft pointers are so effective right now. White tube jigs tipped with chub meat work well right now too. But there isn't anything for 2 inch smallies to eat from now until the middle of May. They don't have enough reserves to survive until the grocery store opens when the ice comes off and the water warms up enough to grow food. If they could grow to three or four inches before the food chain shut down they would probably do okay. They don't grow that big because they get a late start because of the water temperature. Here's a thread that discusses the temperature and the algae at Strawberry. http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gfo...ead#unread Looks like by the 9th of October that the algae had really begun to die off. It will be 7 more months before it really starts to grow again. Have you ever seen how clear the water is for about a week after the ice comes off at Strawberry? And the thread goes on for another 12 pages while people point out that smallies do quite well in the Northern U.S., and Canada. They mention how cold it gets. They quote scripture and verse about how tough smallies are. But they ignore the late spawn at Strawberry the short growing season at Strawberry, and most importantly the long starvation period there. [signature]
10-26-2010, 01:09 AM
So what your saying is the half dozen smallies caught every year are the same fish year after year?
If your information is correct we could plant 10,000 smallies in the Berry with no impact whatsoever on the fishery. If this is true why is everyone against planting smallies at Strawberry?? [signature]
10-26-2010, 01:44 AM
Crawdads
bugs shiners chubs kokanee cutthroats rainbows Yep, there ain't nuthin' to eat in there for the smallies in the winter. [signature]
10-26-2010, 02:23 AM
Few, if any, of the smallies caught every year are harvested. They are all released. As for all of the things that tomegun mentions as food for the smallies, that's a pretty good list. The problem isn't for the smallies big enough to eat all of those things. The problem is for the smallmouth fry. They aren't big enough to eat chubs, kokanee, shiners, trout, cutthroat, and crawdads. There aren't enough bugs small enough for them to eat from now until the middle of May for them to survive.
Has anyone EVER caught a smallmouth less than 6 inches long in Strawberry? The ones that get planted by bucket biologists do really well. There's no disputing that. But the adults spawn, the eggs hatch, and the fry die before they see the bugs come back in spring. As long as people plant smallmouth bass in Strawberry there will be a few very nice adult smallmouth there. There won't be any great number of smallmouth in Strawberry though. They don't survive from fry to adult there. 10,000 smallies in the "Berry" would eat food that would be utilized by other fish. There is no point to planting smallies in Strawberry. Strawberry is the reserve population of genetically pure, Bear Lake Cutthroat trout. The USFW Service and the endangered species act, and all of the requirements of it, will prevent Strawberry from being anything but what it is. [signature]
10-26-2010, 04:51 PM
Well then I am with Lakextackle lets put 10,000 smallies in there at 6 inches. Their fry dying off all winter will provide food for bigger fish, and within a few years we will have 10,000 nice sized potentially trophy smallies there. Without really causing a detriment to the fishery overall.
[url "http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/smallmouth-fry.html"]http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/smallmouth-fry.html[/url] - this link is facts about small mouth bass interesting read. "Smallmouth bass life spans about 15 years to rare instances of 18 year olds in northern waters." so the theory of the same bass over and over is somewhat viable. OR we could think about this more logically, a 15" smallmouth produces about 20,000 eggs. All of the smallies caught ARE toads, so that puts them at the high egg yield area. Lets say that the typically around 1% of fry survive in northern waters to maturity, that is 200 fish per female . Now, due to the above stated challenges of Strawberry, lets drop that survival rate even lower to say 25% of 1% and that is 50 fish per female. Well considering no people even target smallmouth bass in strawberry, that would explain a very low catch rate. I would argue that they do spawn and they do survive, but not many survive. AND the lake is very big with people targeting other species, cause you won't catch any samllies trolling. Just like the rainbow trout in Spirit Lake below Mt Saint Helens, life finds a way to survive, and then it thrives. Or the damn Chubs in strawberry for that matter, some survived all the poisoning and now look at the things thriving like crazy again! [signature]
10-26-2010, 07:01 PM
Food for thought, Cuts spawn and before the poisoning so did a lot of other fish and there fry made it though the winter...
And yes a SM bass under 5" has been caught in the Berry on more then one time... [signature]
10-26-2010, 09:05 PM
Quote:Food for thought, Cuts spawn and before the poisoning so did a lot of other fish and there fry made it though the winter... Because they (cutthroat trout) spawn earlier in the year, their offspring are big enough to survive the winter. They also stay more active in the winter, and can find food of appropriate size to feed on during the winter. If smallies could spawn in late May or early June, and grow to 4 inches or more by October there would be lots of them in Strawberry. Kokanee spawn in the early fall. But the eggs don't hatch until spring. Their offspring grow big enough to survive the next winter. They are adapted to survive in conditions like those found at Strawberry. But hey, I'm wrong. Smallies are the perfect fish for every water and can reproduce and survive anywhere. And of course, the UDWR should spend the money, regardless of how much, and plant them everywhere. Who would care if they ate everything there was to eat in Strawberry and the Bear Lake Cutthroats starved? [  ][][][signature]
10-26-2010, 09:18 PM
By the way, I really don't think they should plant smallmouths in Strawberry. I think the lake is great the way it is. I was simply postulating that smallmouths could be in Strawberry as a result of something other then bucket biology.
Of course there is plenty of evidence of other bucket biology having happened in Utah lakes. i.e. white bass in Deer Creek, and mud cats there too. But I have also caught a brown trout in Strawberry, and they have not been in that lake since before the poisoning either. As far as I know people don't really bucket brown trout around. So explain that one to me? [signature]
10-26-2010, 09:34 PM
We are just talking and you get all sarcastic...
Bass in the far north have 5 or less months after the spawn, now why should we not have SM or any bass in any lake they will live in??? they put trout in just about all lakes they will live in??? Trout only live in lakes they keep planting them in, so why are they so great??? I just can't under stand why??? I like all fish trout and bass and yes even carp to catch.. So what makes trout so great??? [signature]
10-26-2010, 09:53 PM
That's pretty easy. There are about 18 tributaries to Strawberry. Many of them have had Brown Trout in them at one time or another. When spiring runoff comes, some of the fish in those streams get washed down to the reservoir. And you never know what people will toss in a bucket and move around.
Strawberry River and its tributaries Coop Creek and its tributaries Soldier Creek Coal Canyon Creek Cow Hollow Creek Trout Creek Sage Creek Chicken Creek Little Co-op Creek Clyde Creek Mud Creek Bryants Fork Horse Creek Chipman Creek Trail Hollow Creek Broad Hollow Creek Badger Hollow Creek Road Hollow Creek I don't know how many miles of streams are involved here, but there are alomost certainly a few browns in some of them. [signature]
10-26-2010, 09:55 PM
My point exactly sir!!! Smallmouths could have come to the lake the same way. [
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10-26-2010, 09:57 PM
My point exactly. There aren't any smallmouth bass in the tributaries! If there are any in the tributaries, they were placed there by bucket biologists, with obvious plans that they would wind up in Strawberry.
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10-27-2010, 04:28 PM
How do you know that???
The DWR was talking about putting some in there, how do you know for sure they did not put them in the Berry just to see like they have dun before??? If it turned out good then they could say we did it if not no one would know...Or just blame it on the poor BUCKET... [signature]
10-27-2010, 04:38 PM
Somebody caught a big smallmouth out of Strawberry. That is the fact, like it or not. All the bitching back and forth and finger pointing is now a waste of time & energy. We've all got a choice, keep snivelling or live with it. I choose the latter.
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10-27-2010, 04:43 PM
[quote GEEZER]Somebody caught a big smallmouth out of Strawberry. That is the fact, like it or not. All the bitching back and forth and finger pointing is now a waste of time & energy. We've all got a choice, keep snivelling or live with it. I choose the latter.[/quote]
We've all got to live with it. If the buckets bozos would stop planting more of them we wouldn't have to live with them. [signature] |
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