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Thanks for the very interesting post about the attempt to manage the Carp population in Utah Lake.
I personally think the effort is laughably feeble given the prolific population of the pest, but I really hope I am wrong about that.
As for enjoying catching one.... I enjoyed catching Carp.
And then I turned 12.
Anything you can catch on a shoe string, a rusty hook you found tangled in an exposed bush in a declining lake, and a bit of left-over breakfast is not a sport fish.
I've caught Carp that way at Lake Powell more than once.
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Bottom line is that BFT has a policy against posting any illegal activities, as far as the Utah fishing regs. Whether "authorities" are watching our posts is thus - irrelevant. Please refrain from claiming activities that go against the regs. If they were bait, no prob. Just so long as they aren't live bait, all's well.
I won't bother posting links. If you need them, ask me. Be glad to help.
Moving fish is a major no-no, whether the same type are 'there' or not. I collected a cooler full of carp minnows. Make great bait. Frozen, they ain't swimming nowhere!
There's some great literature and resources on the history of Utah Lake, and carp.
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[quote lavaman]The only good carp is a dead carp. I've never seen a nastier ugly looking fish. I have fished UL more than your average angler, and even with all the efforts to clean up the carp...it's my opinion that only a small dent will be put into that population. They lay so many eggs and grow so fast and widespread that it is very hard to make progress. But like it's been mentioned, any effort is better than none.
UL is a unique system. Shallow and covering many miles. I just have a feeling that carp will habitat that lake for a long, long time still.[/quote]
Have you SEEN some of the UGLEEEE cats I've caught? Heck - I'd say a nice mirrored carp has more beauty to share than some of those infected, scraped up channels (which would I rather catch ???? [:p] anyday)
As much personal satisfaction from catching, or bowfishing carp as I've enjoyed - whether they be released or "end-leased" - it's a pebble tossed in a big pond.
Then whole reduction program is based on the teeter-totter notion that there's a turning point. If they can remove enough bio-matter of a given species, they lose the reproductive hold and get out-competed, then are done.
MY fear is that of diminishing returns. What's the number 8million pounds a year for 8 years, or some such? I just fear that, though they've been on target, the pattern of diminishing returns, less carp to net, less mass removed, might they run short of tipping the scales while the $$ flows? Then what? Extension, give up?
I wish we had both the white bass to play with, and the June-suckers to head the cause up Cutler way, but alas, we have neither.
A lot of effort to protect suckers, from a fish introduced for a food source. I'd always known the suckers to be the trash fish, but that's midwest Ill.
I say - "smoke 'em if you got em" - we should learn how to utilize the resource. Sad to say - a single (or multiple) carp killing is going to have little to no impact. Might provide personal satisfaction, of which I share, but on the grand scheme of things.... pissing in the wind. Sorry to say.
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If u guys are really gonna give me a hard time about that then technically I didn't do anything different than catching a fish at say the dam on strawberry and then putting it in a bucket of water and transporting it to hawes point of the lake. It's Utah lake water. Also, No I wouldn't have saved fish from a natural creek or river that's drying. Man made canals the fish have no control over the situation. Also in these canals, it isn't just the hated carp. Let me guess...Now some of u think they should do the same thing to the Jordan river and get rid of the carp? LOL yup just kill kill kill and blame carp and not the dumby who put them where they weren't wanted in the first place.
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Back in the day carp were planted in Utah Lake on purpose as a food source.
Maybe it's time to take a break and do some google searching on the history of the lake.
Tube Dude has a CD on the June sucker recovery program that is very informative on what that poor lake has been through since the white man has shown up.
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Yup and u know why they had to resort to carp? Cause of over fishing lol! Exactly what I'm saying is gonna happen if/when ever they get all of these carp removed.
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Given the lake's history of contamination, I think it will be decades before a lot of fishermen return to Utah Lake.
And it likely will not ever be a home for commercial fishing again -- even if the Carp removal program is a spectacular success. Those guys cause over-fishing generally.
It's not usually the guy with a pole.
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RE"Yup and u know why they had to resort to carp? Cause of over fishing lol! Exactly what I'm saying is gonna happen if/when ever they get all of these carp removed."
Sooooooo, you disapprove of the carp eradication and habitat cleanup because the fishing will improve so much for the other species that the fishing resource will be fished out, due to angler popularity? Incredible. [crazy]
I never cease to be amazed about how much enlightenment I receive here on BFT.
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OK. You have me  but I am old so I get befuddled easy. I just cant see how a reduction in carp will hurt Utal Lake from any standpoint...thats just me.
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huh i havnt posted anything about illegal activities on this post. I said I threw in a crawdad trap in the lake, Its for crawdads, I also said I will be going to the saratoga springs private marina, I go with a residence that lives there. I'm not the one who transported fish from a body of water to another body of water. I think you got the wrong guy on this one yo. But thanks for the heads up
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[quote FishingLunatic]Yup and u know why they had to resort to carp? Cause of over fishing lol! Exactly what I'm saying is gonna happen if/when ever they get all of these carp removed.[/quote]
[cool][#0000ff]Okay. I've had enough of your youthful arrogance and ignorance. You know absolutely nothing about the history of Utah Lake and the role played by carp. I have been fishing and watching Utah Lake over twice as long as you have been alive.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Carp were introduced to replace the overharvested and wantonly destroyed trout and suckers...in 1867. Overfishing was only a part of the severe reduction in trout population. It was also caused by farmers damming the Provo River and diverting it out onto their fields...usually about the time the cutts were spawning up in the river. Ditto for the June suckers and other species.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In those days carp were popular throughout the world as both a game fish and a food fish. They were not planted in Utah Lake with the plan to forever ruin it for other species. It made sense at the time.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]What could not have been planned was the major drought cycle that hit the area around 1930. There were no control gates at the mouth of the Jordan River to try to control the depth of the lake and it dropped to about a foot deep over most of the lake. The only species in the lake that could survive those conditions were the carp. When normal weather returned and the lake filled again the carp exploded. There were no predators left to keep them in check. Since that time the carp have destroyed the ecosystem of the lake and made it a tough habitat for any other species.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There have been several up and down cycles of the lake since then. Utah is a desert state and subject to periodic droughts. The carp always do just fine, as do catfish and just enough of the "gamefish" species to start a new population whenever the lake stays full for a while...like the past few years.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It is preposterous to suppose that carp are outcompeting other species for anglers' bait and lures. They do not fit into the picture at all when it comes to the population of the other species...except that they prey on the eggs and fry of the other species and destroy the vegetation needed for some of them to spawn and survive. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Walleyes, largemouths, catfish, bluegills, crappies, perch and other non-carp species are a lot more subject to problems when the water levels rise and fall with weather changes. Changes in the weather have a much greater impact on the numbers and sizes of the more desirable species than either angler harvest or the influence of carp.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Carp have coexisted with the other species for decades and have even contributed a lot to the food chain as well as competing with the other species. Nature has found a way...as they said in the movie Jurassic Park. It is unlikely that carp alone would ever completely take over the lake and eradicate the other species. Hasn't ever even come close. The problems show up among the carp. With their vast numbers they are actually stunting in Utah Lake. The average carp is now much smaller than the average used to be. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry, but I have to laugh whenever I read a new article about how the carp are going to be removed from Utah Lake and it will once again be a crystal clear mountain lake. There has been a major carp seining operation going on in Utah Lake for several generations. They have removed more carp commercially than are now being removed under the June Sucker Recovery program. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Simple math would indicate that if you remove fewer carp over the same period of time that you will not magically remove all of the carp within a few short years. Those things lay bazillions of eggs and they all hatch and grow fast...soon becoming too big for the predators to eat them. They are among the most prolific fish in the world. None of the other species in Utah Lake even begins to compete in the reproduction department.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]And, as has been suggested, the netting program is a matter of diminishing returns. The more you net the fewer are left to net...and the wider they are spread out. So you have to work harder to maintain a level of removal. And the carp keep on doing their best to fill in the newly available space.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]You claim to know a lot about fishing at your ripe old age of 18. I suggest that you may be able to catch a few fish but that does not make you a serious fisherman...or an "angler". There is a lot more to owning those titles than simply baiting a hook to catch carp.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]You could also benefit by spending some time in the library or online to study the subjects about which you keep spouting off and arguing with folks who know infinitely more than you do. Rash speculation and personal opinions mean nothing. And your patently uninformed ranting does little to endear you to the more experienced members of this forum.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I'm done.[/#0000ff]
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First of all, I don't think that removing carp hurts the lake. There's something wrong with the picture of us humans being responsible for putting them in there in the first place and then killing each and every last 1 of them because of that? Do something more humane with them...dump them in a carp only pond or something. People always have this notion to kill kill kill to solve problems.
Farmers are the exact same way when it comes to cattle and live stock. It's in their convenience to put their animals in the forest where they can roam around and get fat...then a cougar or wolf comes and ills their live stock so they get mad and break out the gun.
Along with that comes the I doubt this is EVER going to work because it's a huge lake and even when u get a large majority of them wiped out, they're gonna be spread out EVERYWHERE and eventually rebuild. Plus unless they get them out of the Jordan river as well, they're gonna swim back up and into the lake. Maybe I need to do more June Sucker research BUT as long as people let them go when they catch them, they should be able to regain numbers WITH or WITHOUT carp present in the lake.
I hate to break it to every1 also but if they really annihilate all of these carp, it's only a matter of time before some idiot puts more carp or another species of fish in it. Plus I think its gonna attract more people than it does now once people hear about how it's all carp free and clearer. Expect smaller fish from more people visiting the lake.
I'm not really sure how/why you got so pissed off but I'm sorry for making u feel this way. Regarding comments such as the catching fish, it was in response to some1 who honestly made me lol by saying he wasn't good at catching carp in utah lake out of all places.
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X2 on what TD said. As far as a pond to put in 7 million carp averageing 6 lbs each. Holy hell you have to be kidding. As said previously I remember when I was 18 and knew more than anybody else. Its a shock when ya grow out of it. [  ]
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[cool][#0000ff]Sorry for the harsh reply. It was meant to splatter some of the other dimbulb posts as well.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It is apparent from your reply that a large part of your feelings and actions are based upon a reluctance to harm or kill any creature. That's not a bad thing. But when it comes to the issue of carp in Utah Lake, they really don't need any tender love and care. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You also express the notion that folks are promoting complete eradication of carp. No sane and knowledgeable person would ever believe that was remotely possible. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any water of any size that has ever been completely cleaned of carp. And even the small lakes that are poisoned...or drained and refilled...usually end up with carp again. And it is not always from someone replanting them. As you have pointed out, there are so many tributaries and marshes around the lake that it would be virtually impossible to kill off all the adults, fry and eggs of every last carp. It only takes two survivors...male and female...to start it all over again.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As has been mentioned, the goal is to reduce the numbers of carp to the point that they are held in check by natural predation from the fish-eating species. They have a goal in mind but whether or not they can reach it...or if it will work...remains to be seen. I think it is overly optimistic.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The June Sucker program has very little to do with anglers. Very few are actually caught each year. The two major problems are lack of habitat for young June suckers...because the carp root out all the greenery...and the toll taken on the babies by the walleyes, bass, catfish and other predators. The white bass are probably worse than all the rest combined and they cannot be eradicated either...even with no limits.[/#0000ff]
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I couldn't agree with u more on white bass. THey say the Jordan river is like 90 % carp but good god white bass are EVERYWHERE. I betcha I could pole out 10-20 bass in 2 hours of fishing in 1 spot alone and probably catch more. I know exactly how to catch them and almost anywhere I go on the river, I've ran into them. Simply put, I can't do what I do to catch them otherwise that's the only thing i'll end up catching in any of my spots. 1 time I actually hooked literally like a 2 inch white bass...he was probably a baby and I actually left him on my hook in hopes of using him as live bait for a big fish. Unfortunately he just swam around untouched for a while and i gave up on it lol.
By the way, I have no Idea if it was a carp or not but about 2 weeks ago I was on the Jordan River on 12600 South looking for my wallet that I lost the night before and when I was walking up the banks, I looked over and there's 4 fish around 14 inches swimming n this white foam stuff and all the sudden 1 of them jumps and they all just scatter.....the next thing I know, I see the biggest fish I've ever seen in that river come just barelling down the river. He was AT LEAST 3 feet long and probably about a foot fat! I ended up literally chasing him for about 200 yards down stream...during the midst of this, there was a spot only about a foot deep where it was full of big rocks and it looked like rapids and through that part, he made it so half of his body was actually out of the water. He eventually made his way to this 1 really slow and deep corner and the landed was positioned so it was basically a dam right there. I tryed sneaking up on him and taking a picture but the f'er went underwater right when I got close enough....
But yeah, I'm sorry. I should keep some of my young thoughts in check. I'm only 18 but already have a old body [  ]
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There's more than 1 ponded in the world though lol.[laugh]
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[quote FishingLunatic]1 time I actually hooked literally like a 2 inch white bass...he was probably a baby and I actually left him on my hook in hopes of using him as live bait for a big fish. Unfortunately he just swam around untouched for a while and i gave up on it lol.
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Ugh...
[quote MasterDaad]Thanks for the very interesting post about the attempt to manage the Carp population in Utah Lake.
I personally think the effort is laughably feeble given the prolific population of the pest, but I really hope I am wrong about that.
As for enjoying catching one.... I enjoyed catching Carp.
And then I turned 12.
Anything you can catch on a shoe string, a rusty hook you found tangled in an exposed bush in a declining lake, and a bit of left-over breakfast is not a sport fish.
I've caught Carp that way at Lake Powell more than once.[/quote]
Well, if you caught them at Powell like that, then it must be true of all waters. I'd like to hear FG's response to this awesome take on Mr. Carp. This might be my favorite thread of all time.
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[cool][#0000ff]You're old enough to tell a good fish story. You should have made it a spearfishermen...who made a wrong turn at the mouth of the Jordan. [/#0000ff]
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[quote FishingLunatic] Do something more humane with them...dump them in a carp only pond or something.[/quote]
I know of the perfect pond for them. It's called the Great Salt Lake.
I bet that they would do great in there. Maybe even take care of the salt problem too. [crazy]
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