Novel way to test ice safety...

[RockyRaab]

While I was fishing at Mantua yesterday, I was surprised by the sounds of a group of boisterous teenage boys walking onto the ice. They were in typical highschool clothes (shorts and thin jackets) and were accompanied by two adult men. Had to be some kind of field trip, but to what purpose I cannot even guess.

Anyway, the whole group of them proceeded to wander about, kicking in previously drilled holes (one of them stuck his whole arm down one) and engaging in horseplay of one kind or another.

The sight of some of them jumping vigorously up and down while as many as 15 others crowded in made me wonder how many I was about to watch drown. The math wheels in my head told me that 18 young men clustered together had to weigh 3,000 pounds - minimum.

So I guess that tells us Mantua ice is safe, huh?
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[fish_fear_me2]

Yeah but did ya catch fish
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[toadly]

The process of natural selection isn't always timely.[]
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[Therapist]

So the way to test ice safety is to get a group of teenagers to walk out on the ice and horse around. IF they don't fall through it is safe, if they do stay off. Works for me !!!! Not sure if the parents would aprove, but then again, some of them might !!

[fmrusmc]

That quote would be the perfect signature LMAO!!! Thats a good one!
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[bowdude]

If you really examine it closely, I would have to say they were really in no danger. When I stand and place my feet together, I take up approximately 1 square foot of surface area. I weigh 235 lbs, so it is safe to say that when I go out on the ice, it will support in excess of 235 lbs per square foot. If you take those young men (15) and each of them take up as much surface area as I do, and if you can crowd them in close enough (which I am doubtful you can) then you are talking about 15 square ft of surface area. If you divide the estimated 3000 lbs by 15, you come up with 200 lbs of weight per square ft. It is more dangerous for me to stand in an isolated area then all of them in a group. You have to remember that as you increase the surface area that you spread out the weight on, it becomes safer. That is why snow shoes work, wide tires in mud, snow mobiles on powder, etc., etc. Fun to think about and to joke about, but the reality was, they were in no danger.
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[TroutBumDave]

Thanks for that informative post, Mr. Fun Police.
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[SkunkedAgain]

We used to put your principal in place hunting geese on thin ice. We would take a light aluminum boat and push it across the ice till we would drop a foot through, then we hopped in the boat and used shovels to push across the ice from there. By spreading out weight this way we got across stuff we shouldn't have. I don't recommend this method if you can't push off bottom if the whole boat goes through its really hard to get back on top of the ice without a strong push.

Anyway I'm an engineer so I followed your reasoning. I'm just not sure about the fracture mechanics that start the ice failing. With all the internal stresses due to water expanding as it freezes when you apply a perpendicular force to this mix its hard to say how much it will take to cause the columnar loading to buckle. But then again this is more likely a plate theory. But I guess I could work on that the next time the fish won't bite. Later J
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[SkunkedAgain]

By-the-way it's a slow commute in the vanpool today, sorry about that last one. J
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[PACKFAN]

+1 on the slow commute to work, but I love to see the snow, especially in the mountains. It would be nice to see the lakes full again this summer.[fishin]
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[SkunkedAgain]

I agree with ya on that one for sure. Drive safe. J
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[CoyoteSpinner]

Driving with your Knee again I see?!

All I know is there was a boatload of folks all standing together at Rockport while Adam called out the raffle winners. Even included a pair of spiky-headed twins! Between the sleds, tents, stoves, and lots of bouncy people - held up a lot on that ice.

Though - I had the passing through - what if . . .

kinda makes you think of those cartoons where someone ends up sitting on a branch, and sawing if off from the tree they're sitting on.

[SkunkedAgain]

Oh ya caught me. Nothing to worry about driving to work today anyway. Hey I don't know if I can go yet, but what have ya heard about pig ice? Is it safe yet? How about Bear Lake, any ice cap yet? We got a week to get safe ice over there. I hope it makes it. Well let ya know more when I get home and check in with the family. Later J
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[bowdude]

Skunked... I am not an engineer, Im a a General Contractor and have worked in the outdoors many years and seen the effects freezing has on materials, especially water and soil. The expansion you mentioned does make for some interesting thought. I have to wonder if it does have an effect on the water. Maybe, maybe not. Add to that the support of the water underneath. I know that when you get a little frost in the ground, it is unreal how difficult it is to get through it with a cat and a ripper or a backhoe. Frozen materials are extremely strong and makes for some strong bonding.

We place planks and ladders on drywall ceilings all the time to spread out the weight so we can work in the space above clgs. Without them, we'd come crashing through to the floor below. Same principle you used to get across the thin ice areas when duck hunting.

Fun police??? Good one. Is that like the Jello sheriff?
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[SkunkedAgain]

I keep thinking of the buckling affect that you see on larger lakes its amazing the power when those buckles go across a lake. My brother got knocked off his bucket one day on Bear Lake when one happened under him. Catch ya later Jeff
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