new reel, and just started lure fishing

[jason41987]

i decided to try some new things with fishing.. first off, i got a round baitcasting reel, its an abu garcia 5600ws.. i got to the point where im setting the spool tension properly and not backlashing.. but casting distance isnt much more than a standard spincast or spinning reel.. maybe the 6'6 rod is too short, or i have too many brakes enabled?.. could it be i have 20lb test on a reel designed for 12?.. i dont know.. i fish on the shore of a lake.. so id like to increase my casting distance

also, i recently started using lures.. started out with a pack of plastic worms, went with the "texas" rig as it seemed like a very suitable setup for a lake with as much seaweed as this one has.. sure enough it wouldnt snag, and i still picked up a largemouth bass on it.. first fish caught on lures for me

i wonder what other lures i should try?.. im considering the daredevil 5 diamond spoon to try for some pike.. any other recommendations?.. also, any lures suitable for catching black crappie?.. theyre the cleanest fish in the lakes here and the safest to eat often
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[albinotrout]

Your set up is a little heavy for crappie. You want light weight rods with jigs.
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[jason41987]

i got this setup mostly for bass, pike, and occassionally muskie.. im going to try a couple spoons for muskie, and i hear crappie like jigs the best?
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[albinotrout]

They love jigs. You definitely want ultra light gear. [cool]
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[jason41987]

any recommendations on a good jig for crappie?.. and im thinking of getting a rod and reel, probably spinning setup.. or perhaps just an additional spool or two that i can quickly swap in and out of my round baitcaster

im actually thinking of putting on braided line tied around some kind of a ring small enough to fit through the line guides, or tie the end of this line in a loop so that i can quickly attach and detach different leaders of a slightly lower breaking strength.. using the braided as a backing, and monofilament/steel/flurocarbon leaders.. i would just use a swivel but then id have to cut it off to take the spool out
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[futekisenshi]

I would highly recommend the braid as you are mentioning. Just like you said, you can change your leader for whatever you are using it for and keep the braid on all the time. I only use the low profile baitcasters, so I don't have much experience with the round ones, but I would use a lot of mono backing on the reel(cheap and braid won't slip). And only about 75 yards of braid, making a spool of braid go further too. I would at least jump up to 30 lb braid if not 50 lb if you'll be doing pike/muskie as well. The 30 lb power pro braid is equivalent to 8 lb mono diameter, so it will help with casting distance as well.

As for casting distance, you mentioned you texas rigged a worm, did you use a bullet weight? and what weight was the bullet weight?

Again, I'm not sure how the brakes work on a round baitcaster, but with my low profiles, when I first started with them, I was noticing I wasn't casting nearly as far as I would like, I kept loosening the brakes until they were all completely off. My brakes on all my baitcasting combos are completely off, as well as the tension knob(just barely tightened so the knob won't fall off) and now I just control everything by thumb and feel. To start out you might backlash, but just keep adjusting how much pressure you put on the spool as the line is going out til you reach that happy medium, and it will soon become second nature. And just in case you didn't know, always put your thumb down on the spool to completely stop the spool right before(split second) the lure hits the water to prevent a backlash.

The next thing to look at is your rod, which plays a vital role in distance. The longer it is will help, but the 6.5 isn't too short. The big thing would be to take a look at the lure weight rating on the rod(the only info on the rod that matters in my opinion), if it's a Medium-Heavy the lure rating is probably something like 1/2oz-1oz or 3/4 oz to 1-1/2 oz. If it is even a medium action it will most likely be rated at 1/4-3/4oz, which is still too stiff for the worm and spinners(trout type spinners I'm guessing? Or is it spinnerbaits you're talking about?), the reason for the shorter distance is because the rod can't load up properly and fling your texas rigged worm(unless you have a 1/2oz-3/4oz bullet weight on it). If you're throwing a 1/8 oz(what I use) bullet weight, you will need a ML rod (1/8-1/2oz lure weight), and those rods are harder to find(especially in a local store in Utah unless you count Cabela's catalog or online site).

Another awesome thing about rigging your baitcaster up with braid is that it will make it really dynamic. If you throw 30-50 lb braid on it. You can switch your rods up and only have to change a leader. Switching to a Medium-Heavy for pike/muskie and switching back to your Medium Light or Medium for bass.
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[albinotrout]

This is what I use for crappie. Ultralight spinning rod with 6 lb mono and 1/8 OZ or 1/4 OZ jig.
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[jason41987]

im thinking of actually getting one of those really compact spinning reels with a telescoping rod, the really compact fishing gear which seems to be very good for backpacking and seems to work well for panfish.. also, i got a variety set of sinkers for different purposes.. i was using about a medium size bullet weight.. the bullet weight wasnt fixed,it was free moving up and down the line. thats what i caught the bass on

i think i am going to load up my reel with high-visibility braised.. look into some fishing knots and see what would be best to attaching leaders to it... i was just thinking of tying a loop to the end of the braided, and tying the leaders to a swivel i can quickly attach and detach... this way i dont have to re-rig the worms, lures, or bait setups when i want to switch things.. so yeah, i could probably hold around 250-300 yards of 30lb braided (reel is rated to hold 205 yards of 12lb monofilament)
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[Tarpon4me]

I actually stopped using bait casting equipment about 3 years ago. You'll never get a bait caster to cast as far as a spinner, if they are equipped apples to apples. (same type and test line, same weight lure, etc...) In addition, if you put the line on the reel properly, and don't over do the pound test for the size reel, you don't get the tangles and such that you do from a bait caster on occasion. Another fringe benefit of spinning reels is they produce almost double the drag pressure as an equivalent bait casting outfit, which is key if you're tossing heavy braid on the reel and light tackling for large game fish. (which I do regularly)

Using high vis braid will require you to have a good leader, or you stand a chance of spooking line shy species of fish. Even common panfish can be line shy at times. The best way to attach a good leader material, such as fluorocarbon, to your braid main line is with an Albright special knot. It's easy to tie and retains most of the lines breaking strength. I use fluoro leaders on all my reels with braid main lines, and I attach them with an albright knot. The knot reels up smoothly through the guides, which allows you to use a nice long leader.

On to the snap swivel.... You can use a snap swivel if you want to, but the more metal you have on your rig, the more chance you have to spook fish. Sometimes it may not matter, but there will be times when you need to use the lightest of leader material, and the simplest of lure selections and/or terminal tackle (most natural looking) to tempt a bite. When I bass fish, my rig is simple. I tie on a worm hook and thread on a worm. No weights, no swivels, no heavy line. It looks like a worm, that's it. I use a really light leader and it looks really clean in the water.
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[jason41987]

well i know high vis to me most likely means high vis to fish too.. so my intention was to use a fluorocarbon leader for things like bass, panfish, perch, etc.. and steel leaders for walleye, pike, and musky.. am i really better off going with something like a moss green line instead?.. and i'll probably fill the whole spool with braided, i dont like dealing with knots in the middle of a spool and i can just back the spool with tape or tie the line through the holes in the spool to prevent it from slipping

unless theres some other advantage to backing the reel with monofilament?.. my reel can hold 205 yards of 12lb monofilament.. if for whatever reason i used a monofilament backing.. about how many yards of each should i have on it?.. and what would be the purpose?..

as for this baitcast reel.. i like it, but.. its so hard to find a good baitcaster in a left-handed setup without paying a large sum of money, one of my favorite things about using spinning reels (which im most used to) is the fact that i can flip the crank handle to either side i want, and typically left it in a left handed setup so i can cast with my stronger, more accurate right arm and not have to switch hands to reel... ill probably get a better spinning setup than what i had before, which was a sub-$50 combo, and probably spend that much on a reel alone.. but im starting to like the abu garcia brand the more i use their products
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[Tarpon4me]

The mono backing is ABSOLUTELY critical. It's purpose is very simple, as it keeps the braid line from spinning aimlessly on the spool under tension. You don't need much, only a few cranks, but don't make the mistake of not doing it. When I first started using braid, I didn't think it mattered. I went fishing with a freshly spooled reel and hooked a nice fish. Started cranking, and it wasn't going anywhere. that was because every crank I made, the ENTIRE ball of line on the spool was just spinning around under the tension. Braid doesn't have the ability to grab the spool like mono does. That's why it is SO important that you use a backing. It only takes a second. Crank on about 5' of line, albright knot to your braid, and fill the spool. Then you're done.
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[jason41987]

ok then.. i might do that.. i was going to tie the braided line through the holes in the spool or use duct tape in a backing, but if this method is that much better i can do that.. what sort of knot should i use to attach the backing to the spool?

also, i bought three new lures today.. one was a pack of panfish jigs which i didnt get a chance to use yet, the other two are spoons, one red and white and one five of diamonds

so i left at about 6am.. put the heaviest bullet weight i had on and texas-rigged a tube worm, id drag this worm slowly along the bottom, then reel in the slack and drag it some more... well i caught three bass all within about 30 minutes, all about 14" and i got tired of bass, wondered if i could catch something else, decided "hmm, id like to catch a pike" so i tied on a steel leader and the five of diamonds spoon and sure enough, five minutes of using this i got a pike... small one, but still got one

about 10-15 minutes later i seen a huge splash further down the shore.. walked down the shore and flung the five of diamonds out there a few times (casting sideways from my left which im not used to, so the first few casts were bad) but i managed to get one good cast out there where i seen the jump.. started reeling in the five of diamonds fast enough to keep it off the bottom and snagged a 27" pike.. he put up a fight, but yeah.. 3 bass and 2 pike all within about an hour.. and this is really only the second time ive been using lures

my dad came with me.. and he believes in worms and bobbers.. he got very after my fifth fish and wanted to leave, as he didnt catch anything.. besides, we're keeping these to eat and the stringer was full anyway, so we cut the trip short and went home

meanwhile, using this round baitcast reel i had ZERO backlashes in a total of about 30-40 casts, simply because i adjusted the spool tension to match the weight of the lure.. and of course, instinctively dropped my thumb on the spool just as the lure hit.. so using these baitcasters has become second nature and im to the point where i feel comfortable taking some of the brakes off.. also, with that big five of diamonds lure i was really able to stack that rod as i swung back, and then flicked it forward as the weight of the lure bent the rod back and i was getting a good 30 yards with a casual, sidearm flick

so in all.. im starting to really dig these baitcasters, and im starting to really get the hang of these lures... any suggestions as to some other fun lures i can try?.. keep in mind theres a LOT of seaweed in this lake because its partially drained as theyre making repairs to a dam.. the five of diamonds brought back a salad every time it didnt bring back a fish.. so im interested in some top-water options
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[jason41987]

let me ask this question reguarding the line on this reel.. currently its spooled up with all 20lb test monofilament.. if i decide to go braided, should i go 20lb braided as well? what benefits would i have if i added 150 yards to the spool, and lastly, how much monofilament should i use so i can finish completely filling the reel with that 150 yards of braided?

one idea i had was to temporarily tie the braided line to the spool, spool all 150 yards onto the spool, tie the monofilament to the braided, then continue reeling the monofilament until the spool is full.. THEN unwind the entire line, tie the monofilament end on first, and wind it all up leaving the reel 100% full with all 150 yards of braided on it

with a capacity of 205 yards of 12lb line.. i have plenty of space for larger diameter monofilaments.. casting distance is my only concern with 20lb monofilament as i havent even been getting backlashes anymore

that being said since i have so much line capacity.. i could run straight fluorocarbon if theres a good reason to
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[futekisenshi]

I'm going to reply individually to all the messages so I don't miss anything, so sorry if anyone gets bugged by the multiple reply's..

With the moss green vs hi vis, if you're moving it at a decent speed, you don't really need the hi vis, since you'll feel the hit almost every time if not all the time. The only time you really need to use a hi-vis would be finesse type things, when you move the bait and let it sit, such as using with worms, creatures, jerkbaits, anything you're going to let sit for more than a second. It's more so you can see your line moving in the water, usually left or right from where you are, indicating there is a fish on.

And I can understand about knots in the spool, one thing I've heard/read but haven't tried is put straight mono on your reel (cheaper) cast as far as you can with a weight about in the middle of your rod's lure weight rating, pull some more line out (maybe another10-30 yards), and cut your line. Since that's as far as you can cast, you won't really get in to the mono.

As you mentioned you might just fill straight braid, lots of people will do that, then when they want to change it, will just reel it from one spool to the next, making fresh braid where you'll use it.

I've heard that not using a mono backing will make the gears work harder and the reel won't last as long as it would normally. Even just filling it up with a couple layers of mono would do the trick. As to how much of each, there's a lot to consider with that, I would just guess (what I do), you'll probably put way too much braid on to begin with, but you'll learn and be able to guess pretty spot on. You'll want to err on the side of too much braid.

If I were you, I would just give the righty baitcasters a shot. I use(reel) baitcasters right handed and switch it to my left and spinning gear lefty. What's awesome about baitcasters and using braid is, if a fish does hit it right when it hits the water (happens a lot) you can just put your thumb on the spool and set the hook, since it's braid, it responds great and it doesn't slip with decent thumb pressure, then reel, which engages it, and you're good. It might feel weird at the start reeling the opposite way, but you'll get used to it and it will become second nature after 1-2 days, if not sooner. A lower profile baitcaster will probably help since you usually hold the reel as opposed to rod a lot of the time. I just tried using my dad's lefty baitcaster, and it was odd to begin with, but after 20 casts, got the hang of it quickly.

One thing I have noticed is that cheaper reels greatly increase backlashes. If I would have known this, I would have spent the extra money and got more expensive reels. I have the BPS Johnny Morris Signature and have only backlashed maybe 4 times total with it, and they're always easy to get out, with a cheaper (abu garcia silver max) I backlashed every trip with it. Same lines, same brakes, just backlashed more.
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[futekisenshi]

I just use a double overhand not to attach to the spool. Leave about 1/4 inch of tag and make sure it lays flat on the reel and you're good there.

With my line to line knots, I use the double uni. Never had a fish break at the knot, never even had a fish break actually, only had them chuck the hook. As mentioned by tarpon, the albright special is really popular. Even better breaking strength I've heard. If I were you, I would while just watching tv or something get out some line and try the knots, which comes easier to you and what can you do better. That's why I do the double uni, Just couldn't get the albright special quite right. I use the san diego jam for all line to lure connections. Again, I can just tie it well consistently, so that's why I choose that over say the palomar, etc.

Glad you're getting to like the baitcasters, I'll never go back now myself. And what you mentioned with the weight of the lure bending the rod back when casting was exactly what I was talking about in my first reply to you. As long as you're within the right lure weight for the rod, usually the more bend that happens, the farther it will go. And that 30 yard cast is nothing to complain about, especially when not really whipping it.

As for other baits, I'd recommend spinnerbaits, they're pretty weedless and work great. One thing I'll recommend is to find lure types that you can fish well and have confidence in, one of mine is the spinnerbait. I catch em good on a spinnerbait when the conditions say I shouldn't be. Kind of like how KVD can fish a crank all the time and do good (not comparing myself to KVD, I'm no where near his caliber). Some more baits good in the weeds are swimbaits, jigs(football, swim) and anything you can texas rig, creatures, worms, etc.
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[futekisenshi]

20 lb braid is 6 lb mono diameter(power pro), different brands will vary between 1-2 lbs in diameter, smaller diameter will give you more casting distance. If you use too small a diameter on a baitcaster it can dig in to the spool since the line is so thin. One of the biggest things to prevent digging in is to make sure you reel on the braid TIGHT. When you push on the braid on the spool it shouldn't have any give. I use minimum 30 lb braid (8 lb mono equivalent) power pro on baitcasters. 20 lb braid may work though. So for example, you'd get a little better casting distance on 30 lb braid over 50 lb braid.

The how much is a tricky one. I fill up about 3/5 to 4/5 of the spool with mono, since you're using a small diameter line, it seems like it takes forever to fill up the rest once you switch and start reeling the braid on. If I were rich, I'd do more like 1/5 mono. I'd buy like a 500 yd spool of 30 lb, it sucks running short by a little (using 150 yd), I've unfortunately experienced that. haha

You could try the whole braid, then mono, then unspool, and respool, my worry would be line twist.

I would also highly recommend a float tube, it just a couple hundred bucks for a cheap set up, but makes it so you don't have to shoot for distance anymore casting from shore, opens up the whole lake to you, and you'll spook the fish a lot less.
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[jason41987]

oh, i intend on getting a boat in the not so distant future, the lakes here have very limited public access from the short, but have public boat launch sites.. im going to either get a shallow v hull to restore and use or just build one from scratch

why would someone need to be rich to go all braided though?.. sure, its like $20 to fill the spook but if i used a barrel swivel or tied the end of the line into a loop where im attaching fluorocarbon, monofilament, or steel leaders to, id never be cutting the braided line itself so as long as i keep the line itself maintained it should last for many years

but.. it will get scuffed and frayed being pulled against logs, over rocks.. so ill just back it with the 20lb test i have on it now, put on 20lb test as there isnt much point to having the braided line a higher breaking strength than the backing, is there?

i should also note that after watching me fill the stringer with bass and pipe in an hour or so as he caught absolutely NOTHING, my dad who came with me now wants to learn how to fish with lures and abandon live worms.. besides, lures dont smell as bad if you leave them in your tackle box all winter
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[futekisenshi]

Nice! I want a boat, but don't have the money, or a vehicle to tow it.

Well, with the lower diameter, filling up a spool completely would take more like 400-500 yards of braid, if not more, which would run $40-50 for one reel, and if you have say 4 rods, puts you at $200 for just the braid, without the lines for leaders. The braid can last years, but the mono backing won't get damaged being under the braid so for a spool of 500 yards, you can just about fill up 4 reels for the price of 1.

With the have braided line stronger than the backing part. I'm not sure if you're familiar with rock climbing/ rappelling, but when you rappel, you use an anchor that may not weigh as much as you, but if you can dig it under sand, etc, and have the webbing lie across the rock for a while before it gets to the edge it causes friction, which adds to the strength of that rock. The same thing goes along with this line strength question, all the friction on itself on the spool adds to it's strength. I'm sure you could use 4 lb mono as backing, I wouldn't recommend it, but I use 12 pound mono, just so it fills up the spool faster, I've thought of upping that too, but I've got tons of 12 lb mono to use up first.

The reason to use 30 vs 20 lb braid is solely for the digging in factor, or if there's big fish higher up in the water column when you set the hook/tug when reeling. I'm sure there's no problem to use 10 lb braid, as long as it doesn't dig in. It also depends on fish size and how hard you need to set the hook. Bigger fish, bigger lb test. Higher your lure is in the water column, higher lb test. If you had a decent sized bass hit a frog lure(topwater) and you had 20 lb test, there could be a good chance you'll snap the line. Luckily your lure floats so it will be easy to retrieve. [] Unless of course, the fish inhaled it and can't get rid of it.

That's also another lure for weeds I just thought of, is the frog, don't use a leader, again for the reason of snapping the line since your force to set the hook on frogs is greater than say your texas rigged worm.
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[LLOMichalchik]

Crappie love jigs. Especially shad darts.
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[Tarpon4me]

The braid actually has many advantages vs. mono.

1. ZERO stretch: what this means is, no matter how far out your line is, when you set the hook, it's going to be a good, solid pull. Unlike mono, which stretches and only gets worse at distance.

2. Smaller Diameter: Braid cuts through the water vs. mono of the same pound test. less drag on lures and a more natural presentation.

3. SUPER strong: Self explanatory.... Does braid frey? Sure it does. But guess what, so does mono.

4. limber composition: Braid is soft and manageable, and casts much smoother and consistently than mono does. You never have to worry about line memory or anything like that with braid.

some pointers:

First off, if someone has braid spooled on their, and it gets buried in the spool under tension, it's operator error, not the lines fault. Braid should be put on the spool tightly, and so should mono for that matter.

Braid is a great mainline, and it's not that expensive to use. You have to apply some common sense here. If you're going to be bass fishing, you don't need 300 yards of line. You've got two choices. You can use smaller pound test braid and just put more backing on the reel, or you can just use a heavier test braid with a larger diameter. Both have their advantages, but it's all personal preference. For bass fishing, I use 10 lb in most instances. But, i'm not using heavy gear either. I light tackle fish for everything from bass in the lake, to grouper in the ocean. My bass/bream/perch rod and reel is an ultra light spinning combo.

With all that said, it's time to get busy. Your backing can be a cheap mono, doesn't' need to be anything fancy at all. Go forth with your new knowledge and let us know how it goes.
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