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HB37
#1
And here we thought we had a chance:

[url "http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57598096-219/property-utah-public-court.html.csp"]http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57598096-219/property-utah-public-court.html.csp[/url]

Randy N Parker
Here we go again. We're hearing about "common sense" and "compromise." Rep. Dixon Pitcher's HB37 is neither.
The Public Waters Access Act provides pieces of the Supreme Court's Conatser decision and 2010's HB80 that Rep. Lorie Fowlke offered as a compromise. What both the Conatser decision and HB80 had in common was they took or devalued a right in property ownership protected under the Utah Constitution without "just compensation."
The court and anglers continue to ignore the fact that for generations, property owners have paid and continue to pay taxes on private property these streams cross. These rights are long established within legal deeds and property descriptions. Article I Section 22 of the Utah Constitution says, "Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation."
HB37 under the Utah Constitution is nothing less than a taking.
The Utah Legislature in 2010 discussed and debated the issue, asking the question "Is there any level of intrusion into property rights justifiable for recreation interests?" The answer came back that any intrusion is a diminishment or damage to the fundamental right to property.
Members of the Utah Farm Bureau join with the nation's Founders in a strong belief that protecting property rights is fundamental. John Adams, second president of the United States and signatory to the Declaration of Independence, warned, "The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God and there is no force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence."
HB37 would simply unwind what the Utah Legislature did after days, weeks and months of deliberation and in essence through public policy invite an invasion of privately held properties, while simply disregarding constitutional protections.
This is not a compromise. For there to be a compromise, the parties have to come together and, through a process of give and take, come to an understanding. The property owners of Utah were not invited into a discussion on HB37. Our concerns were — and continue to be — ignored.
In 2010, there were two competing bills that offered diverse views and legislative recommendations. The Utah Legislature addressed an invitation from the Utah Supreme Court where they did not offer legal underpinnings for "establishing their own rule," which resulted in a recreation expansion onto private property. In 2010 HB80 offered an "Idaho compromise" that our elected representatives and senators didn't agree with.
So how is it somehow different a few short years later? It seems both the court and HB80 looked at some kind of public entitlement when the water runs across private property.
The Utah Supreme Court in the Conatser case focused on a single word, "utilizing," then elevated recreational entitlement above property rights for "wading, hunting, fishing, and any legal activity" related to the state's waters. The court in Conatser effectively assaulted private ownership and Constitutional protections. Whose property is safe from future public encroachment or entitlement if constitutional protections are ignored?
The United States 5th Circuit Court of Appeals found in Parm vs Shumate (Louisiana 2008) that "although an owner must permit running waters to pass through his estate, state law does not mandate that the landowner allow public access to the waterway." As in Louisiana, there is nothing in Utah state law that mandates recreational access to privately held streambeds. To the contrary.
Property owners including farmers, ranchers and some of your neighbors purchased property with streams passing through. Current Utah law recognizes these Utahns have been paying taxes on those properties and have a right to determine their use. As for the water, current law continues to authorize the citizens' right to float on the state's waters, even across privately-owned streambeds.
Utah already has more open, public land than 47 of our sister states — with more than three-fourths of Utah government owned. In this open access environment, when is enough open public access enough? How and when do we protect private property rights? Do we ignore basic property rights when it belongs to someone of wealth? Of course not!
Adam Smith, author of "The Wealth of Nations," tells us property as a right is a belief central to capitalism.
Randy N. Parker is the chief executive officer of the Utah Farm Bureau Federation.
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#2
Thanks for posting that FG.
I already read it this morning and about puked. How someone can write an editorial and actually selectively ignore hundreds of years of public right to waterways that has been enforce since before the country was established. Here in Utah since the pioneers arrived in 1847 is mind blowing. Yes there has been a taking of waterways and it's been an illegal one by some land owners in this state. If they don't like the laws and precedents of our land they can move the hell out. I doubt the guy is really as ignorant as his editorial portrays him. More about greed. Hard to be that stupid but easy to be that greedy.
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#3
And the bill was tabled just like that. Case of Mind over Matter.
They don't mind and we don't matter.
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#4
Maybe with this article, he's trying to gain some sympathy because he and the rest might loose in court. Going back to Brigham Youngs days, the land under the stream/riverbed was publicly owned. Not until recent times have land owners been told THEY own the river bottom. Kay McQuife an ex judge turned politician from down south has been pushing for even more land grabbing.
This is what was told to me, and there might be more to it (streambed ownership) Mischievous will be the one to add more or correct what I wrote.
How many Utah politicians are Farm Bureau, realtors, builders etc.?
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#5
Exactly. Nothing wrong with being a realtor. I was just commenting to my wife about how that group is overrepresented in our Legislature to the detriment of society. She was complaining about some other issues they're screwing up big time.
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#6
Well gee, ya know...if that stream is exclusively yours but the fish belong to the State, then I guess we're forced to require you to remove every last one of them - and keep any from ever re-entering. A hefty fine for every individual fish found in "your" stream would be issued.
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#7
It's a bunch of rhetorical garbage. Noticed how he only focused on one part of the constitution. And if only quoting John Adams proves anything..I could quote dead presidents to prove my point too.
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#8
He references the case from Louisiana totally out of context. I actually referenced this case on BFT when the Legislature was trying to seize our waterways illegally. The case actually supports the public rights to the usually high water mark but not to flooded area over private land. This isn't an issue I know of anyone in Utah trying to push. From the Case "Plaintiffs brought their claims against Sheriff Shumate under 42
U.S.C. § 1983, alleging that they were falsely arrested for trespass when they
refused to cease fishing on waters covering ordinarily dry, private property (the
“Property”)"
The Court in this case reaffirmed the lower courts finding "It observed that under Louisiana law, the bank of the Mississippi River
consists of all the land lying between its ordinary low and high water marks,
which includes all of the Property, and noted that a public servitude preserves
a river’s bank for the public’s navigational use. Id. at 1268 & n.16. And while
it stated that “[f]ishing and hunting on flooded lands do not meet the definition
of using the bank of a river at its high water mark for a navigational purpose,"
While Louisiana may have some peculiarities in their laws regulating waterways that Utah and the rest of the country doesn't the finding basically says the public doesn't have the right to access flooded private property or an lake that is usually surrounded by private property that you accessed from flooded property is my interpretation.
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#9
It's really easy to post a one sided argument and force words down the throat of uneducated people. What this article fails to mention is the compensation that ALL these landowners are receiving. What is that they will ask????? Millions of dollars in our licensing fees and hunting permit fees which have cared for and enhanced all the outdoor activitites they enjoy on and around their "private waters." With exception to very few ranches and landowners who actually have put their own money into restoring habitat and wildlife, all others are benefiting greatly from habitat restoration projects, fish stocking programs, and an overall greater awareness from the public in protecting and preserving our waterways in Utah. Don't get me wrong I am a strong beleiver in private property rights, and am just as ticked off as the next guy to see tresspassers. But, when someone tells us as outdoorsman that we cannot access a resource we paid for to be both protected and enhanced, you better believe you're going to have a fight on your hands.
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#10
What do you all expect from Randy Parker and the Farm Bureau? The times I have gone up there to lobby for stream access, he has been there doing his thing for the other side. The message here is the same as what he always has spouted. Nothing new at all.


Here is what I find odd. We found out that HB37 was effectively dead a week ago. Why publish this op-ed now? Maybe it is because those guys are REALLY getting nervous that they are going to get beat in court soon.
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#11
Sorry I've been busy with fixing thing up around the house, So am I understanding this correctly the New Bill HB37 that was suppose to provide comprise with Private Land Owners and Anglers/ Outdoor People has been denied ? Is there no chance or any comprise going to be made ?
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#12
It was tabled. Didn't even make it out of committee.
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#13
Ill start by saying that I don't follow the politics of all this very closely so if this seems a little off that is why. That being said im a builder, realtor, land owner, and outdoor lover. I think I see and understand this argument both ways. It is amazing to see how much crap is dumped on my land because someone thinks "its just a field, no body will care." I do because it cost me time and money to remove it. I can see land owners don't want complete strangers wondering through their property, in a river or not. However I don't understand the basis of whether the stream bed is private or not, We all know the water is public and without water rights, it is illegal for the land owner to remove that water from the stream for any purpose. My family has a cabin at bear lake on the beach. our property stops at the high water mark which for many years is well above the actuall water level. People cannot access the lake or beach through our property but if they want to come park there boat and bring 50 of their best friends with them and set up shop for the day in front of our cabin, we have know legal rights to tell them to leave. They are on as I was told federal lands. So what or whom determines whether riverbed/lakebed is federal, state, or private. take pinveiw, is it state or owned by the irrigation company. that's what I think makes this whole thing confusing. Lost creek is another, who owns that because they are able to close access to it based on the time of day. Just some thoughts I had, not trying to start arguments or even looking for answers. Food for thought.
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#14
Good points. I wonder the same about the surrounding land around Strawberry. BLM or leisure Living? I think it has to do with WHO owned the land before the Dams made them lakes.

As for trash, I do feel it CAN be a problem as I see it in our local park. People let their dogs run loose and poop where ever, EVEN with signs saying keep on leash and clean up after. Not to mention tagging (which I just see as pooping in your own back yard, but no one said these taggers had brains)
I hate the garbage that blows in my yard and I am not on a river. Sorry, this happens, but I don't feel it is as bad as media plays it up.
The thing is, it will be hard to GET USE TO, and it should have never happened. The river bed was NEVER and will NEVER be the land owners.
Us the public are the ones that have been wronged for years, so sorry if I can't be sympathetic to land owners that feel they own it.
I do feel RESPECT is a must, and pretty sure it is given way more than portrayed.
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