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[#0000FF]I just received this month's newsletter from the Utah Lake Commission. [url "https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=81543442399c32c0fce942192&id=31b7860d9c"]LINK TO NEWSLETTER[/url]
Be sure to click on the link for [url "https://www.utahlakerestoration.com/"]UTAH LAKE RESTORATION PROJECT[/url]. A quote: [/#0000FF]
The Utah Lake Restoration Project is, first and foremost, a master plan for Utah Lake with the goal of restoring and protecting the Utah Lake ecosystem to a more pristine, stable, and sustainable condition.
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Wow! I am glad they have an "Executive Summary"[  ]
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O o o o K, now I am really  !! Been tracking this thing for almost as long as TD and this is the first that I have ever heard that the recovery of Bonneville Cutthroat trout is one of the goals. It is interesting that one of the solutions is the use of bottom dredge material to build islands to reduce wave action. That was rejected about 30 yrs ago as a viable solution, now it is back ??? Building on the islands ? I must have fallen asleep somewhere during some of these meetings and missed all this. TD, did I miss something or have they just thrown in some new wrinkles on the plan ??
PS: I believe that the native Cutthroat were a sub species known as Utah Lake Cutthroat. So how does putting Bonneville Cutthroat in there "restore" them ???
PPS: The last time islands were considered, it was rejected because there was not anything in the middle of the lake to support them, just the lake bottom ooze . Have they figured out some thing new ??
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[#0000FF]Hey Matt, you and I have been pretty close to the ups and downs of the old brown pond for many years. I too had some obvious questions after reading through the info on the Project website. So I sent off an email to Sam at the Utah Lake Commission. Waiting for his reply to the following:
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[b]I got the newsletter with the link to the Utah Lake Restoration Program. Got some questions.
[ol][li]Is this a private organization…and who is funding it?[/li][li]Are they really in touch with the past and present of Utah Lake? So pretty exotic plans stated.[/li][li]Do they really believe they can get approval for building islands in the lake? That has been shot down before.[/li][li]Reestablishing Bonneville cutthroat in Utah Lake? My opinion is that it is totally unrealistic. [/li][/ol]
I am all for making any improvements possible, but unless they have some kind of magic wand they are just dreaming.
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Is this restoration group also the developer that wants to build communities in the lake and also the bridge across the lake???? Im not too sure about dredging the entire lake or the restoration or restocking of trout could be successful. Some of this is old hat with some new twists. It also makes me very nervous.
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[#0000FF]Kinda suspicious. Make a wild proposal to totally restructure the lake...with an idea to make a lot of money by developing and selling off "lakefront property". If that doesn't work, then disguise it as a restoration project.
Something smells here and I don't think it is rotting carp.
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I always get worried when these things come along. There are more and more of the millennial type thinkers out there that would swallow that whole ball of bait. I am surprised that it was even allowed as a proposal but I am sure this is the same group that wants to build the road across the lake and a bunch of island communities with private harbors.
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[#0000FF]I probably won't get a response from Sam at the UL Commission until the first of the week. But I spent some time reviewing the Q & A section on the Project website. As I suspected, the whole thing will be financed by the sale of developed property. But they are proposing hundreds of millions of dollars be spent in infrastructure and amenity improvements before they can ever have anything to sell. Wonder where that money...and agency approvals...will come from.
It's good to dream...but not to hallucinate.
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I'm with you Tube Dude. This is the developer from an article in the trib I believe from last month. Thankfully it's just a proposal so far. I've been shaking my head since I read it. Sounds as realistic as building homes on top of the old Spanish Fork dump site. That didn't work out so well and I doubt this would either.
Something will definately smell if this becomes the model.
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[#0000FF]I sent an email to the folks at the Utah Lake Commission. I got this response. As I suspected, they seem to think some of the proposals are good ideas, but have the same questions I have posed.
I know just enough about grandiose plans (schemes) to know that they have an uphill road to 1. getting permits, 2. getting funding, 3. completing the project. I will be very surprised if they are ever able to get past #1. The Environmental Impact Statements alone could take years...and never get approval.
Here is Sam's email response.
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As always, thanks for reading the newsletter and thanks for reaching out to us. Honestly, we don't have all the answers. This project is very early on, it is only designs and plans and ideas at this point. They have a proposal, but no permits yet from the State. They are well prepared, they have put years into this proposal and the Commission supports this idea, like many others projects, for being an innovative idea to improve/restore/maintain the lake. However, it will be a lengthy process to ensure that they answer all the questions you posited as well as others.
It's best to start at their website ([url "http://utahlakerestoration.com"]utahlakerestoration.com[/url]) and check out their background info and the actual proposal to see the reasoning behind everything. We will continue to share any information we receive through our newsletter and social media, etc.
[font "arial black, sans-serif"][size 4]Sam Braegger[/size][/font]
[font "times new roman, serif"][size 4]Outreach Coordinator[/size][/font]
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WOW
Read it, studied it, and as an Engineer, all I can say is anything is possible.
We use to use the three sides of a triangle analogy. Each sides represents the following statements.
You can have it cheap.
You can have it fast.
You can have it good.
Now, pick which two you want! You cannot get all three.
In the case of the proposal, you won't get it cheap and their claims of how long it will take are pretty fast so how good will it be. My first thoughts are ---
SNAKE OIL
In reality, I just felt I was subjected to a time share scam - without the vacation.
BUT, don't get me wrong. Not all of what they say is untrue. That is the trick, they give enough truth that you accept the rest without serious question.
Some quick observations if I might.
The cost will be enormous. I guesstimate at least $7000 per each person in the State of Utah; much higher per actual tax payer. OK, in reality, over 25 years, it would cost more. I estimate that if it was paid for from land/home buyers only, private investment, it would mean selling 2 thousand each $10 million parcels, plus the cost of the actual work itself.
You can engineer islands from the spoils that will survive. They will be extremely expensive and require millions of tons of rip rap at the edges. The geotubes they talk about are the same ones I have used, and they have a 10 year life span before UV damage sets in and they fail. Natural vegetation and protective rock must be in place by then. And, the islands will sink over time. New Orleans is a prime example, the area is sinking slowly and the dikes are going to need to be raised. The same subsoil category at the bottom of UL is the same as the area in the Mississippi Delta. Buildings on the other hand will require deep piles or floating foundations. OK, that is a subject for another day.
So much of what they claim is contrary to previous studies, and all they have to provide for support is a claim of experience and Engineers.
"All solutions created by the restoration team have been carefully engineered to resolve each issue facing the lake." “The solutions contained herein represent more than a decade of design, modeling, engineering, and planning by a team of world class experts and infrastructure professionals. The team includes many who have led similar multi-billion-dollar island creation and infrastructure projects around the world. The engineering is innovative, the science is sound, and the team has combined decades of experience to complete the Utah Lake Restoration Project.”
So, who are they? When claims are made like this, but no names are given, it usually means they cannot back up their claims. It is true, today everyone calls themselves an Engineer. I wonder if NYC Sanitation Engineers did the Engineering.
They take highly questionable historical references and propose to use them as fact to support their claims. I offer the following:
".... The lake and the rivers which empty into the lake abound in many kinds of choice fish; there are to be seen there very large white geese, many varieties of duck, and other kinds of beautiful birds never seen elsewhere; beavers, otters, seals, and other animals which seem to be ermines by the softness and whiteness of their fur."
Father Silvestre Velez de Escalante, 1776"
It only takes one mistake to invalidate a claim, and if seals lived in UTAH that is the first time I ever heard of it. Makes one consider the possibility that the good Father had a little too much to drink????
They will be after public funding. Once you claim it is for the good of the public, the doors are opened.
"The Utah Lake Restoration Project contributes significantly to public trust values in the state of Utah. The following are areas of significant public trust benefits to the state of Utah and its residents:"
I have so much to say, but I don’t want to leave this without an open mind. If the proposal group offers the principals involved with this, it would help. JOHN RAPKOCH is the only “Engineer” given and his experience is “Experienced in Power Services, LNG, Petrochemical facility design and construction”. He does not seem to be an expert at this type of construction. The other “ROBERT SCOTT - Chief Design Director” and many of the others, have their claim to fame as working in “United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia…….. Madagascar, Mongolia, Zambia, and Panama……Dubai, Abu Dhabi and the Kingdom of Bahrain…..” These are great places to gain a reputation, but not big places to prove environmental abilities.
I guess I tend to lean on the old saying: ‘If it seems too good to be true, it probably is’. But then again, if I am close on my guesstimation, then perhaps it is NOT all that good.
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Thanks for posting that response td. And thanks for the engineering pov double a. I speak from the environmental side. It smelled funny as soon as I saw that adding more people was involved with decreasing pollution and returning to a pristine condition. People are the problem to begin with.
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[url "https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2018/02/21/lawmakers-back-giving-developers-parts-of-utah-lake-for-an-island-subdivision-in-exchange-for-fixing-the-polluted-lakes-many-problems/"]UTAH LAKE RESTORATION ARTICLE[/url]
[#0000FF]This article in today's Salt Lake Tribune. Now the developers are trying an end run with the legislature to try to get in the back door.
Thankfully, there are some cooler heads at the front of the line of dissenters.
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Unbelievable what people can up with to line their pockets in the name of public good. So the lake is poluted and has been a dumping ground for municipalities--sewage--and a steel mill--PCBs, other contaminants and heavy metals--for decades. What happens when they start dredging all that up? Then they are going to make islands and residential lots out of all that muck and pollution? Sounds like prime real estate that I'd like to put a little vegetable garden on--NOT! How about raising a family on your little 1/8 -1/4 acre of landfill sludge? Besides the fact that all those disturbed pollutants will flow through the lake and contaminate everything downstream. Have they figured that into their plan?
Here's a novel idea--how about making municipalities dumping all their sewage into the lake clean up their act? Make people in those cities store their own waste until the problem is solved and see how long it takes to get things done.
I am originally from northern IN--steel mill city--and the mills there have so contaminated the lake bottom around them that they cannot ever clean it up by dredging because it would contaminate the entire southern end of Lake Michigan with PCBs, etc.
How can one not agree with the premise that they could not sell enough real estate to pay for all the infrastructure, dredging and development without the public bank. Is common sense extinct? Who are they kidding? How many people would be willing to shell out $10mil+ for a lot made of polluted muck that'll likely sink in the future? That and the fact they will then want the state to come in and fix the future problems!
I gotta hand it to em though, greedy people sure do come up with some innovative ways to try and line their pockets and even more innovative ways to try and sell their pie in the sky--or in this case--pie in the lake schemes. Save the fish!!
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Looking at the trib comments it looks like most if not all are just as concerned as we are. If you google this company there is zero info on them. One comment mentioned the company (Lake Restoration Solutions inc ) was created November, 2017 in Delaware (3 months ago). I say toungue in cheek, under what relatives name? I think I'm going to belly up to the bar with my friend Steve, an environmental lobbyist and see what he has to say about this HB 272 in the next day or two. I'm sure he will fight the fight to make sure this doesn't pass.
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[#0000FF]Glad I ain't the only "Negative Nelly" on this one. I have had some informal discussions with several seasoned business folks...after they have read through what is available. The overwhelming response is usually..."WHAAAAAT?" Anybody who has had practical experience in trying to get anything even half so ambitious is well aware of the "obstacles of inertia" that government agencies can throw up to stifle your momentum.
I have long lived by some good advice I once got from an aged veteran of fighting in the trenches of project developments: "Never undertake a VAST project if you only have HALF VAST abilities."
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