Minnow Idenification

[ice_sled]

What are they? About 25% of the minnows in my traps looked like this. The rest were chubs,suckers, and redside minnows.
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[Anglinarcher]

Not sure, but it looks like one of the Dace minnows, or maybe in the Shiner family.

http://www2.dnr.cornell.edu/cek7/nyfish/...nidae.html

Shiners have been spread from coast to coast for bait, and for forage. The shame with Shiners. Like the Fat Head minnows, the do no or little harm to native specie but can be great food for game fish.

I do not know of any native Dace or Shiners in Utah.

[Bassin_Blitz]

Looks like a speckled Dace to me.

https://dwrcdc.nr.utah.gov/rsgis2/search...m=rhinoscu
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[ice_sled]

Thanks for the info. I think it is a Dace.
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[catchinon]

They look like the minnows we used to trap when I was a kid in Colorado. We just knew them as minnows, but recent research has led me to believe that they were dace. The other kind we caught out of our pond had a fatter head and "warts" on their noses. Anyone know what species they would be?

In that place and time it was legal to fish with live minnows. We kept them in an old galvanized wash tub with ditch water running through. My grandfather directed all his buddies to come and buy them. They could stop by any time and pay on the honor system. We had a lot of fun catching walleye on minnows under slip bobbers. Ah, the good old days.
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[SBennett]

Why is that a shame?
I only see positive benefits in your explanation.
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[SBennett]

The real shame is that Utah is so short sighted we do not allow live minnows to be used as bait in the same water they were harvested from. Pathetic law.
Almost as pathetic as not being allowed to fillet salmon at Strawberry as long as the skin is left on.
And I love Utah and our DWR, but these two rules need to be removed from the books.
This archaic thinking of ours wobbles the mind.......
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[Anglinarcher]

As for the live bait, It is an enforcement issue only. If more fishermen were honest, the laws would not be required.

But, it is too easy to say I caught these minnows that look like carp here at Strawberry ..... so I should be able to use these at Strawberry. Now it becomes the responsibility of the enforcement people to prove that you did not catch carp minnows at that lake. It is legally impossible to prove a negative, so the officer could never prove you did not catch them at Strawberry, or any other lake..... so the dishonest could bring any minnow they wanted from anyplace to fish with. It does not take long to ruin a lake and Utah Lake and Carp should scare you enough to let the officers have a pass on this one. In the eastern US, that has already been done, so it is useless to try to prevent the spread of invasive minnow species.

Similar issue with Salmon/Kokanee on Strawberry, but it is a bit more convoluted. Some times, in some waters, trout, especially Rainbows, will become so silvery that except for the overall shape of head and tail, and the loose scales of a kokanee, they can be hard to tell apart. If all you had was fillets with skin, it could be difficult in some cases.

In this case, I don't see it an an enforcement issue, but a management issue, trying to balance Rainbows and Kokanee. Personally, I have never seen the Bows and Kokanee look even remotely similar to each other in Strawberry, but they have erred on the side of caution.

I do agree that it is fun to use live bait, and productive as well. And you can still use live bait in most states East of the Rocky Mountain Divide and in Arizona.

I suspect, that if a respectful and well worded proposal was made to the DNR that they would review the fillet laws at Strawberry. I believe that they have sufficient data to demonstrate that that law might not be required.

Laws are seldom created just to make if unpleasant for a single person or group. Just because we don't understand why they exist does not mean there is no valid reason and IT SURELY DOES NOT MEAN WE ARE SMARTER then those who created the laws and regulations. BUT, sometimes it does help to ask for review and clarification of the reason for those laws/regulations.

[PBH]

[quote Anglinarcher]

I do not know of any native Dace or Shiners in Utah.[/quote]

Virgin River spinedace
speckled dace
woundfin minnow
colorado pikeminnow
redside shiner
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[SBennett]

So should we take away everyones drivers license because the potential for them to exceed the speed limit and kill someone exists?
I appreciate your thoughts, know I will most likely never be able to fish live minnows in Utah,and will shut up now.
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[Anglinarcher]

"and will shut up now"

That is not what I would want, I think we need to discuss different issues and your point on drivers licences is a good one.

The argument is that we need to be able do commute but we do not need to use live bait. The time will come, like it or not, when we do not have any privilege to drive ourselves. Autonomous driving cars will take over our privilege to drive.


Yes, privilege! It has been ruled that we do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to drive a car, only the privileged. Privileges can be taken away, and when the technology catches up, this one will be taken away, because so many of use abuse that privilege.

The privilege to use live bait WAS taken away, due to our fellow fishermen abusing that privilege.

This should be a lesson to all of us. For the common good of society, rights may be regulated and privileges may be revoked.

It would behove us all to treat our rights and privileges in such a way that we do not loose them.

[Anglinarcher]

PBH

Thanks for reminding me and doing that research.

Virgin River spinedace
speckled dace
woundfin minnow
colorado pikeminnow
redside shiner

I should have known the Virgin River spinedace and
redside shiner were native. I did not know the speckled dace was native, and I still cannot confirm that the woundfin minnow and colorado pikeminnow are shiners or dace, but I do agree they are part of the minnow family, just like Carp are.

[Springbuck]

The ones with the nose bumps, if I remember correctly, are a specie of dace, and they develop those little horn-looking bumps and fat heads during their spawn, in the same way the channel cats turn black and get those bulldog heads.
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[SBennett]

Even thinking about being punished to only be in an autonomous car makes me and depressed, having the privilege to own and operate a motor vehicle is one of the many things that makes America special.

I guess I should just be grateful nightcrawlers haven't been banned, yet.
And, I would still like to fillet my kokes at Strawberry.......
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[TubeDude]

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[Anglinarcher]

I sure agree with this statement.

"Even thinking about being punished to only be in an autonomous car makes me and depressed, having the privilege to own and operate a motor vehicle is one of the many things that makes America special. "